RI gay marriage bill may hinge on religious clause

Mar 10, 2013 Full story: SFGate 31

Maria Valente and Andrea Bond were married in Massachusetts four years ago by a justice of the peace.

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Brian

Attleboro, MA

#1 Mar 11, 2013
I hope I live to see the day government stands up for tax paying citizens and spits in the face of religious entitlement.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#2 Mar 11, 2013
The Catholic hospital's refusal to treat the spouse of a patient as a human being merely emphasized the moral bankruptcy of the Roman Catholic Church and its empire.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#3 Mar 11, 2013
More likely the bill hinges on what the SCOTUS does with DOMA.

Assuming DOMA is overturned, that will likely give the wavering Dems the courage to vote for marriage because civil unions will no longer provide the same benefits.

Same goes for the veto override vote in New Jersey and marriage bill in Delaware.

Getting rid of DOMA takes away another talking point of the anti-gays; i.e. that civil unions are good enough.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#4 Mar 11, 2013
nhjeff wrote:
The Catholic hospital's refusal to treat the spouse of a patient as a human being merely emphasized the moral bankruptcy of the Roman Catholic Church and its empire.
That really depends on the hospital. We have a catholic run hospital and have never had a problem even though Michigan doesn't recognize our marriage. My husband is listed as my spouse in all their records and as far as I can tell we've never been treated any different than any other spouse.

But in general I agree with your assessment of the RCC empire.

“Mystical Atheism for everyone!”

Since: Nov 08

El Cerrito California

#5 Mar 11, 2013
Those who insist that religions opposed to homsexuality should be exempt from laws regulating gay marriage is nuts!

What about gay people who are also religious and belong to religions that recognize their unions as just as sacred as any other?

Are their religious rights going to be trampled on to cater to the powerful religions that control government policies by the process of block voting on issues that affect minorities.

This is tyranny of the majority plain and simple!

“Marriage Equality”

Since: Dec 07

Lakeland, MI

#6 Mar 11, 2013
from the article, "Under the law, religious cemeteries could deny adjoining burial plots to a couple in a civil union, and religious hospitals could refuse to let one partner make a medical decision for another."

HOW is it possible that people professing a faith in a kind and loving God could also believe that these provisions in the law are "kind and loving"??

Oh, yeah. Gross hypocrisy. How could I forget?

“Marriage Equality”

Since: Dec 07

Lakeland, MI

#7 Mar 11, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
That really depends on the hospital. We have a catholic run hospital and have never had a problem even though Michigan doesn't recognize our marriage. My husband is listed as my spouse in all their records and as far as I can tell we've never been treated any different than any other spouse.
But in general I agree with your assessment of the RCC empire.
My husband I have been equally well treated by St. Joe's down here in Ypsi (part of the Sisters of Mercy system).

Oddly enough, while they're both wonderful now, the University of Michigan's medical center used to give us minor hassles over us being a couple (even though we had medical POA for each other) while St. Joe was great.

But when my husband had his heart attack six years ago, there were no questions asked at St. Joe's. They treated us both wonderfully and treated me just like any other spouse. They're awesome.

Personally, I believe that anyone working in a medical setting that refuses access to a patient's chosen representative or spouse (barring any domestic violence issues, of course) should simply be fired on the spot as not qualified to work in a medical facility. You can't very well claim to be trying to help people while simultaneously harming them, can they?
Rainbow Kid

Alpharetta, GA

#8 Mar 11, 2013
Each of us is born with sex orientation; we have no choice
.
None of us are born with religion. Religion must be forced upon us by terroristic threats and superstition

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#9 Mar 11, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
That really depends on the hospital. We have a catholic run hospital and have never had a problem even though Michigan doesn't recognize our marriage. My husband is listed as my spouse in all their records and as far as I can tell we've never been treated any different than any other spouse.
But in general I agree with your assessment of the RCC empire.
Overall, I have had wonderful experiences with Roman Catholics involved in service organizations. But there are undoubtedly individuals who listen to the rhetoric from the hierarchy and take it upon themselves to act.

Also, the RCC has a history of getting upset with requirements that reflect what they have quietly done all along: Catholic Charities of Massachusetts had quietly placed children with same-sex couples up until Massachusetts enacted marriage equality. Suddenly, those children in need of adoption became useful implements of a temper tantrum being thrown by the bishops.

Actions in Rhode Island may follow the same pattern: While Michigan and Texas provide no legal recognition of same-sex couples, the Catholic hospital quietly treats couple humanely. But in Rhode Island where they fought for the right to discriminate if they wanted, they have enforced that right as a form of protest.

Expect to see more vindictiveness as the Vatican continues to lose respect and authority.

“Luke laughs at hypocrites!”

Since: Sep 10

Palm Springs, California

#10 Mar 11, 2013
Rainbow Kid wrote:
Each of us is born with sex orientation; we have no choice
.
None of us are born with religion. Religion must be forced upon us by terroristic threats and superstition
Yep, unlike sexual orientation, religion is a chosen lifestyle. To quote the haters, one can change if he wants to. I often hear of folks converting from one religion to another.

Why ARE their so many different sects, anyway? I mean don't ALL Christians believe the exact same tale? Why are Congregationalists different from Episcopalians different from Snake Handlers different from Mennonites?

“Equality First”

Since: Jan 09

St. Louis, MO

#11 Mar 11, 2013
Curteese wrote:
<quoted text>Yep, unlike sexual orientation, religion is a chosen lifestyle. To quote the haters, one can change if he wants to. I often hear of folks converting from one religion to another.
Why ARE their so many different sects, anyway? I mean don't ALL Christians believe the exact same tale? Why are Congregationalists different from Episcopalians different from Snake Handlers different from Mennonites?
Because Psychosis can be manifested in different symptoms?

“Luke laughs at hypocrites!”

Since: Sep 10

Palm Springs, California

#12 Mar 11, 2013
RalphB wrote:
<quoted text>
Because Psychosis can be manifested in different symptoms?
My question was rhetorical. I have read that folks choose different sects of the same belief system to satisfy THEIR own needs and ego.

A more liberal Christian will dump Catholicism for Episcopal. A more tight ass will dump Methodist for Baptist. An ornery will dump Lutheran for Congregationalist. It is the fact that they choose the one that fits their own lifestyle and tolerance system. In other words, they rely on vanity and choose the one that they feel comfortable with, despite them all having the exact same outcome.

“Equality for ALL”

Since: Jul 10

Massachusetts

#13 Mar 11, 2013
Religions don't need a special exemption as to any civil marriage. NO RELIGION IS REQUIRED TO CIVILLY MARRY ANYONE! And that includes straight couples.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#14 Mar 11, 2013
DaveinMass wrote:
Religions don't need a special exemption as to any civil marriage. NO RELIGION IS REQUIRED TO CIVILLY MARRY ANYONE! And that includes straight couples.
They know that; what the really want is an exemption so businesses can discriminate against married same-sex couples. Of course they ignore the fact that it's alreadly illegal to discriminate based on sexual orientation in Rhode Island, married or not.

I say let them have whatever amendments they want if that's what it takes to get the bill passed. Once it is passed the courts will quickly strip out those discriminatory amendments.

“Equality First”

Since: Jan 09

St. Louis, MO

#15 Mar 11, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
They know that; what the really want is an exemption so businesses can discriminate against married same-sex couples. Of course they ignore the fact that it's alreadly illegal to discriminate based on sexual orientation in Rhode Island, married or not.
I say let them have whatever amendments they want if that's what it takes to get the bill passed. Once it is passed the courts will quickly strip out those discriminatory amendments.
There is a world of things I am not expert on. One of them is law. But it is my understanding that a state law cannot be contrary to Federal law. If that is so, and we have Federal anti-discrimination laws, wouldn't the state law be moot from the get-go?

“Equality First”

Since: Jan 09

St. Louis, MO

#16 Mar 11, 2013
Curteese wrote:
<quoted text>My question was rhetorical.
Oh, I thought this was a test.

“ WOOF ! ”

Since: Nov 12

33.00, -111.51

#17 Mar 11, 2013
Grandpasmurf952 wrote:
Those who insist that religions opposed to homsexuality should be exempt from laws regulating gay marriage is nuts!
What about gay people who are also religious and belong to religions that recognize their unions as just as sacred as any other?
Are their religious rights going to be trampled on to cater to the powerful religions that control government policies by the process of block voting on issues that affect minorities.
This is tyranny of the majority plain and simple!
I agree. Well said. For example, the Lutheran Church (ELCA) and the United Church Of Christ (UCC) both allow gay marriage in their churches, and support marriage equality.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#18 Mar 11, 2013
RalphB wrote:
<quoted text>
There is a world of things I am not expert on. One of them is law. But it is my understanding that a state law cannot be contrary to Federal law. If that is so, and we have Federal anti-discrimination laws, wouldn't the state law be moot from the get-go?
Federal anti-discimination laws don't cover sexual orientation.

“Greetings!”

Since: Dec 06

Tampa, FL

#19 Mar 11, 2013
My lord, the issue of religious exemptions has been debated and resolved many times over since Massachusetts first legalized gay marriage. And, a TRUE religious organization IS protected from being FORCED to host or officiate same-sex marriages. PERIOD!

However, ANY organization - religious, semi-religious, etc....CANNOT discriminate if they offer any form of public accommodation or service. So, YES, the Knights of Columbus, if they rent out their reception halls to the public - they CAN'T say, because they are affiliated with the RCC, that they won't allow a wedding recption for a gay couple - UNLESS they change their police and ONLY allow receptions for those married in the RCC.

If you are a florist, and roman catholic, and you refuse to sell flowers to a gay couple for their wedding - you're discriminating! Unless of course that florist ONLY sells flowers to couples married in the RCC.

ALso, if a religious organization takes TAX PAYER MONEY - they can't discriminate.

So, this is a red-herring issue. They are trying to be legally empowered to discriminate!

I hope the pro-gay marriage folks in RI don't buckle and hold off for a few more months. When the SCOTUS rules on gay marriage - this argument will be pretty much moot.

Don't CAVE!

“Equality First”

Since: Jan 09

St. Louis, MO

#20 Mar 11, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Federal anti-discimination laws don't cover sexual orientation.
I'm aware of that, but I'm just asking in general. Mostly cause I sure that at some point we will.

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