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Since: Sep 09

Parksville, Canada

#1 Dec 3, 2009
People who read the bible invariably want to possess heaven for themselves. Therefore, throughout history, anyone who appeared "different" than the readers of the scriptures, were "burned in the Christian hell."

Maybe the early writers of scriptures knew that this god is actually gay, and were jealous that gays would be god's chosen ones in heaven, so they wrote their own stories to suit themselves.

Men have been mighty handy with the pens, and eager to condemn those they targeted as sinners.

This god is probably gay.

:)

Since: Sep 09

Parksville, Canada

#2 Dec 3, 2009
There is a congressional cemetery in Washington D.C. There is a tombstone … and the tombstone reads,“My country gave me a medal for killing a man, and they gave me a dishonorable discharge for loving one.”

For more on the subject please check out the following site.

http://randywickerreporting.blogspot.com/2009...

Since: Sep 09

Parksville, Canada

#3 Dec 3, 2009
The quote above that I copied from elsewhere is not the same as the one on the tombstone. And so, that is just an example of how people misconstrue the original author's words with words of their own.

The words are close, but sometimes close is all it takes to send an entirely different message than the one that was intended.

One can only imagine what has happened to the bibles through countless interpretations from one language to another.

And we don't even know if the original authors were on track.

They fought and killed each other for centuries over the words in those books.

When bible-readers use their bibles to discriminate against those who are gay, they best be careful that those fingers that eagerly turn the pages of the bibles to point at gays, don't turn and point back at them.

Since: Sep 09

Parksville, Canada

#4 Dec 3, 2009
Interpreting scriptures, is a shot in the dark, and after shooting venom at others as "sinners," those shots can never be taken back by the shooters.
..........

In the runaway # 1 British Bestseller,“Eats, Shoots & Leaves,” the subject of the book is about the importance of correct punctuation in the English language. The author, Lynne Truss, did extensive study into the history of punctuation. Lynne mixes humor with serious assessments of history and some of the following is from her book.

“Of course, if Hebrew or any of the ancient languages had included punctuation (in the case of Hebrew, a few vowels might have been nice as well), two thousand years of scriptural exegesis (my note- exegesis-analysis of texts) need never have occurred, and a lot of clever, dandruffy people could definitely have spent more time in the fresh air. But there was no punctuation in those ancient texts and that’s all there is to it. For a considerable period in Latin transcriptions there were no gaps between words either, if you can credit such madness. Texts from that benighted classical period- just capital letters in big square blocks- look to modern eyes like those word-search puzzles that you stare at for twenty minutes or so, and then (with a delighted cry) suddenly spot the word “PAPERNAPKIN” spelled diagonally and backwards. However, the scriptio continua system (as it was called) had its defenders at the time. One fifth-century recluse called Cassian argued that if a text was slow to offer up its meaning, this encouraged not only meditation but the glorification of God- the heart lifting in praise, obviously, at the moment when the word “PAPERNAPKIN” suddenly floated to the surface, like a synaptic miracle.”

Lynne points out that much later, when punctuation came into existence, the interpreters did not agree where to place the punctuation in the interpreted Scriptures. As she pointed out, altering punctuation could completely change the meaning of the Scriptures.

If we all have free will and are swayed by our prejudices and biases, it is questionable whether the interpreters of Scriptures had their assessments correct. Between us taking their intellectual abilities too seriously, and taking our own intellectual abilities too seriously, we may have completely misconstrued the highest truth.

I asked a member of the clergy to show me a scripture that verified his insistent assessment that God found homosexuality an abomination. One of the Scriptures he gave as a reference was Leviticus 18:22.“Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.” Now, with a far stretch of the imagination, one could believe that this Scripture had something to do with homosexuality. However, if we alter the punctuation, the same Scripture could read as follows.“Thou shalt not lie: with mankind, as with womankind, it is abomination.”

Since: Sep 09

Parksville, Canada

#5 Dec 3, 2009
I believe it's possible that the persecution of those who are gay, came about because heterosexuals wanted the upper-hand in the idea that their penises were superior to the penises of the men who are gay.

After all, religion has been dominated by people either being pro-sex, or anti-sex in one department or another.

If god is gay, these heterosexual bullies are going to be in BIG trouble.(tongue in cheek)
..........

The phallic symbol before the cross symbol.

When we look at the Egyptian, Greek, and Roman civilizations, we verify that the phallic symbol was every where, that it was indeed the predominant icon, as symbol of strength, of virility, of mysticism and religion.

A visit to the ruins of the city of Pompeii will be sufficient to confirm this truth. Moreover the first Catholic churches had on their walls a three dimension penis and testicles as the phallic symbol signifying strength and religious meaning!!!

We see today people displaying the Cross in their houses and yards in order “to ward off the evil eye”. In the antiquity, the icon with same meaning of “warding off the evil eye” was the PHALLIC SYMBOL! This is the same reason why people still used today phallic amulets!

Today people continue to be brain washed with symbol of the Cross. They cannot analyze the world history WITHOUT the symbol of the Cross, and give the space, that indeed, belongs to the MEANING OF THE PHALLUS!

http://www.dightonrock.com/basic_principals_o...

Since: Sep 09

Parksville, Canada

#6 Dec 3, 2009
I am not an Atheist, but I relate to the following poem.
..........

Atheist poems………

Test o' Fires

by Michael Gibb

Placing Satan in their handbags
they go 'a knocking on doors
where they're least expected
to trade the here-and-now
for everlasting obscurity.

All for a Book filled with the
occult, murderous intentions, and twisted realities
where truth is falsehood and falsehood is gospel
and a simple question
merits the death penalty.

With the pitter-patter of tiny feet
they approach with learned stealth
caring for nothing
but the opium high of testifying.

Overjoyed by rejection
yet bewildered by disbelief
their prayer orgies strafe the ethers
in long arches of arrogance.

"We have the truth!" they proclaim boldly
as legion more proclaim a differing story.
I read their Book filled with
insanity, conflict, and unnumbered depravities
then look into their junkie eyes.

Nothing that I say can appease
the Beast lurking behind the message
with peace on the lips
and dripping evil on the tongue.

Quickly closing the door
on the message of death
disguised in goodness,
a sigh of relief passes my lips.

The wolves of the forest
have been kept at bay
for, at least,
one more day.

Since: Sep 09

Parksville, Canada

#7 Dec 3, 2009
Imagine having the audacity to state that gays will not go to heaven!

That oozes with arrogance ... which is so often the Christian way!

They grab a few words from a mouldy old book, and run amok telling others, who this god will, and will not allow in heaven.

Sickening!

Since: Sep 09

Parksville, Canada

#8 Dec 3, 2009
I have been criticized for criticizing people's faith. But what I find ironic, is that so many people will have complete faith that those who are gay are in no uncertain terms going to hell.

So the playing field (according to these Christians) is only fair if their faith is respected, and to "hell" with those who are gay. According to these holier than thou Christians, gays get no respect, because they deserve no respect.

And that is WHY I criticize that VAIN of religion.

When religion (across the board) gives respect for other people's faith, maybe then it's faith will deserve respect.

Since: Sep 09

Parksville, Canada

#9 Dec 4, 2009
Just maybe some parents will learn from this woman's terrible experience.

I believe that gays have no need to change who they are to suit skewed Christianity. Rather, the way Christianity has been taught, is what is in need of change.
..........

One Mother's Tragic Lesson By Bethany Lye

Mary Lou Wallner Rejected Her Lesbian Daughter—and Paid a Terrible Price. Today She Has a Simple Message for Christian Parents: Embrace Your Gay Children
A devout Christian, Mary Lou Wallner grew up believing homosexuality was a sin. So she was devastated when, in 1988, her older daughter Anna, 21, told her she was a lesbian. Wallner's reaction—and Anna's subsequent suicide—haunt her to this day. Now, as head of TEACH Ministries ( www.teach-ministries.org ), which Wallner founded in 2001, she and husband Bob speak to Christian groups around the country, urging parents to accept their gay children. At her home in Little Rock, Wallner, 62, whose story is featured in the documentary For the Bible Tells Me So ( www.forthebibletellsmeso.org ), spoke with PEOPLE's Bethany Lye.

I was so excited to get a letter from my daughter at college! But after reading what Anna wrote—"I love women"—I went to the bathroom and threw up. I wrote Anna a terrible letter. "I will never accept that in you," it said. "I will continue to love you, but I will always hate that."

Like any mother, I dreamed of Anna marrying and having a family. She was smart; at 10 months she could hum "Jesus Loves Me." As a kindergartner in Christian school, she quoted 100 Bible verses from memory. When she was older, she was a ventriloquist and loved music and drama. Looking back, there were signs. Once, in high school, with her friend over, she said, "Kelly's mom thinks we're lesbians." I should have seen it, but I didn't.

After Anna's letter, I prayed she would change. I felt she was committing a horrible sin and needed to ask forgiveness. We shared it at church: "Would you pray for our daughter?" And of course everyone thought it was wrong too. Anna and I even saw a counselor; she was kind, but her nonverbal language was, "There's nothing wrong with this." I couldn't make that part of me.

continued

Since: Sep 09

Parksville, Canada

#10 Dec 4, 2009
continued....

The next time I saw Anna, at my ex-husband's home for my younger daughter's graduation, she had a partner with her. I had to go into another room and cry—I couldn't stand seeing them together. She brought partners home; we were cordial but didn't want them sleeping in the same bed.

In 1996 Anna began pulling away. I'd try to contact her but wouldn't hear back. Months later she sent an angry letter. She said she didn't want anything to do with me, that I had done colossal damage to her soul with my shaming words. Some of her letter's last words were, "Heal thyself, Mother."

After six months of silence, the phone rang. It was Feb. 28, 1997. Bob answered, then sat down, looking like someone had knocked the wind out of him. "It's Anna, isn't it?" I asked. She had hanged herself from a bar in her closet; there was no suicide note. I later learned that Anna [a social worker] had gone on disability for depression.

That year Bob and I began reading books on homosexuality and really studying the Bible. It was a big jump for us, almost a yearlong process. In the end I found myself far away from the safe place I'd been all my life. I wound up on my knees praying, "God, are you sure you want me to change my mind?" And I had an epiphany: This is not a sin. These people are just like we are; they want the same things we do.

Suddenly I could not keep silent. I went to rallies and conferences, telling Anna's story and mine. In 2001 I gave our story a name: TEACH Ministries. It stands for "To Educate About the Consequences of Homophobia." There used to be no other option than to believe what we were taught. But now I know the value—the power—of unconditional love. And though it came too late for Anna, I believe she knows what we're doing. And she is proud.

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/...

Since: Sep 09

Parksville, Canada

#11 Dec 4, 2009
When I was young, with great intensity, I studied the bible. Certain scriptures seemed of special importance, so I wrote those specific scriptures down as an aside issue to study. Years later, when I went back to read the same scriptures, I couldn't figure out why they had been important to me at that earlier time, because they no longer had relevance to anything I then believed.

Note how the mother who lost her daughter, when she could no longer believe that homosexuality was a sin, found other scriptures with which to relate.

The bible doesn't lead the reader. The reader is the leader of one's own favorite-flavored words that he/she pulls FROM the bible.

Since: Sep 09

Parksville, Canada

#12 Dec 4, 2009
Consider changing your skewed doctrine, BEFORE you lose your gay loved-ones. Remember that it's too late after they commit suicide.

If you allow fear to rule, where love should reside, it will be your tragic loss. You can't unring a bell!
..........



“II Samuel 1:26”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#14 Dec 4, 2009
June VanDerMark wrote:
When I was young, with great intensity, I studied the bible. Certain scriptures seemed of special importance, so I wrote those specific scriptures down as an aside issue to study. Years later, when I went back to read the same scriptures, I couldn't figure out why they had been important to me at that earlier time, because they no longer had relevance to anything I then believed.
Note how the mother who lost her daughter, when she could no longer believe that homosexuality was a sin, found other scriptures with which to relate.
The bible doesn't lead the reader. The reader is the leader of one's own favorite-flavored words that he/she pulls FROM the bible.
Sooooo true. Thank you for these posts.

Since: Sep 09

Parksville, Canada

#18 Dec 4, 2009
AquariusNSF wrote:
<quoted text>
Sooooo true. Thank you for these posts.
You're very welcome.

Men who are insulted by gay men having sex, have their own issues with which they are not dealing.

I believe they are usually drawn to homosexuality, while denying their own attractions to men.

If they were secure in their heterosexuality, they would not begrudge homosexuals happiness. They would be happy FOR their happiness.

Since: Sep 09

Parksville, Canada

#19 Dec 4, 2009
The way I perceive the issue ... is that because the men who played around with words to write scriptures that painted pictures of this god as a homophobe ... then I can also play around with the words to paint pictures of this god as gay!

Let's ALL be silly!

:)

Since: Sep 09

Parksville, Canada

#20 Dec 4, 2009
It's strange that this god is perceived as male, AND heterosexual.

It's almost as though men wrote the bible in their own image!

:)

Since: Sep 09

Parksville, Canada

#21 Dec 4, 2009
June VanDerMark wrote:
The way I perceive the issue ... is that because the men who played around with words to write scriptures that painted pictures of this god as a homophobe ... then I can also play around with the words to paint pictures of this god as gay!
Let's ALL be silly!
:)
That should have stated, "because men played around with words"

Since: Sep 09

Parksville, Canada

#22 Dec 4, 2009
I spend many hours on the telephone with a man who is gay, and at one time was very suicidal.

Because he believed the societal preaching by members of clergy that he was a pervert, he was beaten down by these bible-thumpers to where he lost value in himself.

Many times in the middle of the night he would phone me, drunk and suicidal, and I would encourage him to go beyond the nonsense of the preachers, and find his own link to love.

As he grew to accept himself, the calls came less often. He now has a very good-paying position and is a manager over others.

He only phones once in a while, and that is when he is sober. He doesn't need the alcohol to fall back on, as once was the case.

When he phones, he assures me that had I not been there to listen and to care, he would have taken his own life.

Maybe that is true ... but even if it is not true, I don't have a need to unring a bell ... simply, because I cared.

Since: Sep 09

Parksville, Canada

#23 Dec 4, 2009
David Kopay was a professional football player in the national football league. From his book,“The David Kopay story”… comes the following …

I asked about my dad’s reaction (making my homosexuality publicly known) and she put him on the phone.“What the hell do you think you’re doing? Who the hell do you think you are? I said,“I know who I am.” He said if I were there he would kill me. He said he never wanted to see me again. I was crying as I hung up the phone.
……………………

I tried to speak from my own experience in a way that would have some meaning to people in my own condition, but would also help to explain our lives to those who—out of fear or ignorance—had caused us so much pain.
…………………….
It was Sigmund Freud himself who wrote an American mother that “homosexuality is assuredly no advantage, but it is nothing to be ashamed of, no vice, no degradation, it cannot be classified an illness.”(The letter is now preserved at the Kinsey institute.)
……………………..
The childhood of David Kopay would fit Deford’s formula for producing male homosexuals. However the formula also fits Kopay’s older brother and younger brother, who turned out to be acceptably heterosexual.
………………………
I guess the attitude that homosexuals are not to be trusted comes from the long years of silence, when the only time the subject was mentioned at all in public was in connection with the publicized rare occasions when an older man had molested a younger boy. The only homosexuals people heard about were the few who pushed themselves into the public eye by committing rapes or molesting a minor. There are laws on the books dealing equally with heterosexuals and homosexuals—to punish such acts, which are very different from what takes place between two consenting adults, in private.
………………………
(Guys on the football team, blacks) all knew I was gay, and none of them cared one way or the other. It seemed to make for a kind of unspoken bond between us. I knew they had been harassed just because of the color of their skin, and they knew that my difference was also something to be accepted for what it was—not what other people might think it is.
……………………….
But in society, it’s often very difficult—even painful—to be who you are instead of who you are expected to be.
……………………….

Since: Sep 09

Parksville, Canada

#24 Dec 4, 2009
Tongue in cheek..........

When I arrive at heaven's gate and am refused entry, if I have a chance before I am sent to burn in hell, I will ask god one question.

"Why did you have to be such a bastard???"

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