Comment: Let's allow Christians to ha...

Comment: Let's allow Christians to have their views

There are 1099 comments on the Belfast Today story from May 23, 2014, titled Comment: Let's allow Christians to have their views. In it, Belfast Today reports that:

Two clergymen sent the secularist 'Taliban' who dominate the media into fits of apoplexy this week.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Belfast Today.

Quadratus

United States

#82 Jun 12, 2014
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
That Jesus was the final sacrifice, is absurd!
And the claim that Jesus is God is also absurd and rubbish. There is nothing from
Jesus' own mouth on this post-Jesus 4th-7th Century junk and stuff.
Yes, you need to be corrected. Did Jesus ever speak of this so-called 'God the
Father' character? Never! Who came up
with that?
In a conversation about the Greatest Spirit Being - God - how do you know what is or is not rubbish, but by the writings of His prophets? Conjecture is simply guesswork. The prophets all affirmed that the holiness of God required a sacrifice for Him to forgive sins. You can call that rubbish - you can quote Jewish theologians who will disagree with me - but if you are a Muslim you have to admit in the end that the word of a prophet trumps the word of the expert theologian.
The need for sacrifice stands.
Isaiah said there would come a final sacrifice for sin, and he identified it as Jehovah's Servant. Other passages identify this Servant as King Messiah.
We believe Jesus is King Messiah.
And we do not believe that depending on His sacrifice is rubbish.
The best you can throw at me is the words of your experts.
I respond with the words of the prophets.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#83 Jun 12, 2014
Warner wrote:
<quoted text>You have hidden your religion as you have said that you are not athiest or muslim or Christian or Jews or anything.
And yet that info has been available for several years now, almost as long as I have been posting on this site...
Warner wrote:
The Gospels do not support Sharia Law and you are exaggerating when you say that there are many Christians who support Christian type Sharia Law.
I wish I was exaggerating. You are correct in that the gospels don't support Sharia law. I suppose that one could argue that the Torah calls for it, but at least it acknowledges that Gentiles don't have to follow every jot and tittle.
Warner wrote:
The Gospels and Jesus are to be followed not any lone ranger who thinks that they have authority to give additional supplements to the Gospels.
Like Paul...

Of course, if you were to actually follow the teachings of Jesus instead of Paul, you would be Jewish.
Warner wrote:
But let me tell you sir, that the Gospels do not support same sex marriage or immorality of any sort and Christians have a right to speak out against these practices but that is not the same as supporting the implementation of Sharia Law and it is a Lie to suggest that is the case.
Even though Jesus was married to a man?
John 19:26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!

Jesus was telling his mother that his husband, her son in law, was going to be the one to take care of her in her old age.

More to the point, all sin is defined in the Torah, and accurately translated, the Torah does NOT condemn homosexuality. In fact, the Bible celebrates the same sex marriage of David and Johnathan in 1 Samuel. So, while denying same sex marriage may not be the same as implementing Sharia law, it IS going against the express will of the God of the Bible.
Warner wrote:
No person is coerced in any way to become Christian. We want people to become Christian by free will and choice, no other kind of Christian would be a true Christian as the Lord is the bringer of belief not a person, not a culture, not a state, not a sharia law type process.
Okay, maybe that is true for you and your church. That does not change the fact that there are those in the xian community that want to require America to drop the 1st Amendment and make xianity the official sate religion, and base our laws on their interpretation of the Bible.
Warner wrote:
Plus are you saying that Yahweh is a false God when you talk about the worship of a False God should not be forced on this country. Who is the false God in your opinion.?
Jesus is clearly a false god, according to the Bible.
Warner wrote:
It is Muslims who intend to force people to worship an Allah and Muhammad and in my opinion that is the false god and his religion. Christians do not force people to worship Yahweh or Jesus who in my opinion is Yahweh who came into His own Creation.
You persist in trying to turn "some" into "all". Yes, I can agree that there are some xians that are not trying to implement pseudo-sharia law, but that does nothing to change the fact that others are trying to force xianity on all Americans.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#84 Jun 12, 2014
Warner wrote:
<quoted text>You need to stop reading the Quran and start reading the Gospels. I am fed up giving scriptures that show that Jesus said that he is the Father and the Son and the the clear Word that no one can access God without entry from the Son who is the Eternal Son who existed before He came to Earth into the man who was Jesus or Yeshuia. I am not prepared to waste my time any longer for certain people who have been on the forum for a while and has already been given the scriptures of the Gospels which show Jesus to be God come into His Creation.
You just believe that Muhammad is the man and l will stick with the sinless Lord Jesus, the living Word of God that is Eternal. There is no finger that can ever accuse Jesus of improper behaviour and being irreverent and irrelevant. Everyone should Love Jesus.
God is multi-dimensional and He can do what he wants and if he chooses to live for a short time in a human body that is what he will do.
The Allah is not Yahweh. The Quran contradicts the Bible and Torah scriptures and has Christian apostacy in it. Islam is an anti-Christ Religion. No argument, you stick to atheism or Islamism as its your choice. The Bible was written for people who were already Christian people. If you are not impressed with it but prefer the Quran then that is up to you and l understand because l am not impressed with the Quran.
Too bad that there are gospel quotes of Jesus, clearly stating that he is NOT God...

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#85 Jun 12, 2014
Quadratus wrote:
<quoted text>
In a conversation about the Greatest Spirit Being - God - how do you know what is or is not rubbish, but by the writings of His prophets? Conjecture is simply guesswork. The prophets all affirmed that the holiness of God required a sacrifice for Him to forgive sins. You can call that rubbish - you can quote Jewish theologians who will disagree with me - but if you are a Muslim you have to admit in the end that the word of a prophet trumps the word of the expert theologian.
The need for sacrifice stands.
Isaiah said there would come a final sacrifice for sin, and he identified it as Jehovah's Servant. Other passages identify this Servant as King Messiah.
We believe Jesus is King Messiah.
And we do not believe that depending on His sacrifice is rubbish.
The best you can throw at me is the words of your experts.
I respond with the words of the prophets.
Except Isaiah never made a prophecy about Jesus. Jesus failed to fulfill the Messianic prophecies, therefore he could not possibly have been the Messiah.

And pretending that his death meant anything will not help you with respect to the God of the Bible.
Warner

Dublin, Ireland

#86 Jun 12, 2014
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>

<quoted text>
Like Paul...
Of course, if you were to actually follow the teachings of Jesus instead of Paul, you would be Jewish.
<quoted text>
Even though Jesus was married to a man?
John 19:26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
Jesus was telling his mother that his husband, her son in law, was going to be the one to take care of her in her old age.
More to the point, all sin is defined in the Torah, and accurately translated, the Torah does NOT condemn homosexuality. In fact, the Bible celebrates the same sex marriage of David and Johnathan in 1 Samuel. So, while denying same sex marriage may not be the same as implementing Sharia law, it IS going against the express will of the God of the Bible.
<quoted text>
Okay, maybe that is true for you and your church. That does not change the fact that there are those in the xian community that want to require America to drop the 1st Amendment and make xianity the official sate religion, and base our laws on their interpretation of the Bible.
<quoted text>
Jesus is clearly a false god, according to the Bible.
<quoted text>
Ok from the post you wrote l have eventually figured out your religion which you will likely deny; Without doubt you are a Satanist! I will not be responding to any more of your posts, after witnessing your filthy, disgusting blasphemy against Jesus.

“ But if you speak against the Holy Spirit, you can never be forgiven. That sin will be held against you forever.”— Mark 3:28-29 (CEV)
Quadratus

Seattle, WA

#87 Jun 12, 2014
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Except Isaiah never made a prophecy about Jesus. Jesus failed to fulfill the Messianic prophecies, therefore he could not possibly have been the Messiah.
And pretending that his death meant anything will not help you with respect to the God of the Bible.
Isaiah absolutely prophesied about Jesus.
Jesus absolutely fulfilled many Messianic prophecies.
But even without that Islam is in trouble, because in Isaiah 53 whatever else can be gotten from the passage - the prophet Isaiah affirms that the sacrifice of Someone was absolutely necessary for the forgiveness of sins.
"He shall look upon the travail of His soul and shall be satisfied. By His knowledge shall my righteous Servant justify many, for He shall bear their iniquities.
Mohammed got it absolutely wrong when he denied the efficacy of the sacrifice for sin.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#88 Jun 13, 2014
Warner wrote:
<quoted text>Ok from the post you wrote l have eventually figured out your religion which you will likely deny; Without doubt you are a Satanist! I will not be responding to any more of your posts, after witnessing your filthy, disgusting blasphemy against Jesus.
“ But if you speak against the Holy Spirit, you can never be forgiven. That sin will be held against you forever.”— Mark 3:28-29 (CEV)
Wrong again. Par for the course for you.

And nothing I said is a blasphemy against Jesus.

#1, That is impossible, since blasphemy is the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for a God. Jesus was not a God, therefore it it is impossible to make any statement that would be blasphemous against him.

#2 Saying that Jesus was gay is not an insult. It is no different than saying he had black hair and brown eyes. He was born that way.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#89 Jun 13, 2014
Quadratus wrote:
<quoted text>
Isaiah absolutely prophesied about Jesus.
Jesus absolutely fulfilled many Messianic prophecies.
But even without that Islam is in trouble, because in Isaiah 53 whatever else can be gotten from the passage - the prophet Isaiah affirms that the sacrifice of Someone was absolutely necessary for the forgiveness of sins.
"He shall look upon the travail of His soul and shall be satisfied. By His knowledge shall my righteous Servant justify many, for He shall bear their iniquities.
Mohammed got it absolutely wrong when he denied the efficacy of the sacrifice for sin.
No, that was actually one of the few things that Mo got right. As the Bible clearly states, blood sacrifices are NOT what is required for the atonement of sins. What IS required is a sincere desire to repent and not do it again. Period.

And the "Suffering Servant" if Isaiah was identified IN Isaiah as being the nation of Israel, the collective referred to as a singular whole, sort of the opposite of the royal "we".

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#90 Jun 13, 2014
Warner wrote:
<quoted text>Ok from the post you wrote l have eventually figured out your religion which you will likely deny; Without doubt you are a Satanist! I will not be responding to any more of your posts, after witnessing your filthy, disgusting blasphemy against Jesus.
“ But if you speak against the Holy Spirit, you can never be forgiven. That sin will be held against you forever.”— Mark 3:28-29 (CEV)
Oops, forgot to add this...

To be fair, there is also evidence that Jesus was actually married to Mary of Magdalene. The myth of her having been a prostitute is unsupported by anything in the gospels, and is most likely a later addition to the body of myths surrounding Jesus by the misogynistic priesthood of the early church.
Quadratus

United States

#91 Jun 13, 2014
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
No, that was actually one of the few things that Mo got right. As the Bible clearly states, blood sacrifices are NOT

what is required for the atonement of sins. What IS required is a sincere desire to repent and not do it again. Period.
And the "Suffering Servant" if Isaiah was identified IN Isaiah as being the nation of Israel, the collective referred to as a
singular whole, sort of the opposite of the royal "we".
Maybe you can explain these passages then:

*[[Exo 29:14]]* But the flesh H1320 of the bullock H6499, and his skin H5785, and his dung H6569, shalt thou burn H8313 with fire H784 without H2351 the camp H4264: it is a sin offering H2403.

*[[Exo 29:36]]* And thou shalt offer H6213 every day H3117 a bullock H6499 for a sin offering H2403 for atonement H3725: and thou shalt cleanse H2398 the altar H4196, when thou hast made an atonement H3722 for it, and thou shalt anoint H4886 it, to sanctify H6942 it.

*[[Exo 30:10]]* And Aaron H175 shall make an atonement H3722 upon the horns H7161 of it once H259 in a year H8141 with the blood H1818 of the sin offering H2403 of atonements H3725: once H259 in the year H8141 shall he make atonement H3722 upon it throughout your generations H1755: it is most H6944 holy H6944 unto the LORD H3068.

*[[Lev 4:3]]* If the priest H3548 that is anointed H4899 do sin H2398 according to the sin H819 of the people H5971; then let him bring H7126 for his sin H2403, which he hath sinned H2398, a young H1241 H1121 bullock H6499 without blemish H8549 unto the LORD H3068 for a sin offering H2403.

*[[Lev 4:8]]* And he shall take off H7311 from it all the fat H2459 of the bullock H6499 for the sin offering H2403; the fat H2459 that covereth H3680 the inwards H7130, and all the fat H2459 that is upon the inwards H7130,

*[[Lev 4:20]]* And he shall do H6213 with the bullock H6499 as he did H6213 with the bullock H6499 for a sin offering H2403, so shall he do H6213 with this: and the priest H3548 shall make an atonement H3722 for them, and it shall be forgiven H5545 them.

*[[Lev 4:21]]* And he shall carry forth H3318 the bullock H6499 without H2351 the camp H4264, and burn H8313 him as he burned H8313 the first H7223 bullock H6499: it is a sin offering H2403 for the congregation H6951.

*[[Lev 4:23]]* Or if his sin H2403, wherein he hath sinned H2398, come to his knowledge H3045; he shall bring H935 his offering H7133, a kid H8163 of the goats H5795, a male H2145 without blemish H8549:

*[[Lev 4:24]]* And he shall lay H5564 his hand H3027 upon the head H7218 of the goat H8163, and kill H7819 it in the place H4725 where they kill H7819 the burnt offering H5930 before H6440 the LORD H3068: it is a sin offering H2403.

*[[Lev 4:25]]* And the priest H3548 shall take H3947 of the blood H1818 of the sin offering H2403 with his finger H676, and put H5414 it upon the horns H7161 of the altar H4196 of burnt offering H5930, and shall pour out H8210 his blood H1818 at the bottom H3247 of the altar H4196 of burnt offering H5930.

Quadratus

United States

#92 Jun 13, 2014
Interestingly for every verse Moses wrote about the moral law, he wrote about seven for the sacrificial system.
For you to say that God's holiness is satisfied with just repentance is insane.
Quadratus

United States

#93 Jun 13, 2014
Before I get into your gross misunderstanding of Isaiahs Suffering Servant - I want to nail down the consistant teaching of the OT prophets on the blood sacrifice:

Here is what the prophet Job believed:

*[[Job 1:5]] KJV* And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.

Apparently he did not believe repentance was sufficient in itself.
Both repentance and sacrifice are required.
Quadratus

United States

#94 Jun 13, 2014
How did Isaiah get forgiven? Through repentance, or was the daily sacrifice needful?
Isaiah 6:6-7

h1. Isaiah 6

*1* In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.

*2* Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.

*3* And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

*4* And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.

*5* Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.

*6* Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:

*7* And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.

Sorry, your understanding of God is horribly flawed - and until that changes you are damned in your sins.
Warner

Dublin, Ireland

#95 Jun 13, 2014
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong again. Par for the course for you.
And nothing I said is a blasphemy against Jesus.
#1, That is impossible, since blasphemy is the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for a God. Jesus was not a God, therefore it it is impossible to make any statement that would be blasphemous against him.
#2 Saying that Jesus was gay is not an insult. It is no different than saying he had black hair and brown eyes. He was born that way.
No, it is not the same as saying that Jesus had brown hair. You know perfectly well that God says that homosexuality is abhorrent and a sin and not in his plan for mankind yet you say that Jesus who is Eternal and dwells in the highest heaven went against the Word of God which speaks against homosexuality. Jesus is the Living Word of God, the eternal and living Word so Jesus said that homosexuality is a sin thus he did not engage in homosexuality mocking his own Word. I can assure you that He who dwells in the highest Heaven is God. God is multi-dimensional something that you are incapable of understanding. You have blasphemed against the Sinless and Eternal Lord Jesus and only God is Sinless so it is God you have sinned against.

Muslims regard that blasphemy can be committed against Muhammad who was not Eternal or Sinless or the Word of God . You are correct that blasphemy can only be against God, and Muhammad without doubt was not God. However, Jesus is in a different category and He appears to have a strong claim to be God as only God is Sinless and Eternal. I believe that He is God but putting aside my belief and just looking at the evidence about Jesus then you are likely to be wrong. Let's put it this way, would you play Russian Roulette? To say that you have no doubt about Jesus not being divine is a strange thing to say. You will see, the years go by fast, and you will see whether you have committed blasphemy or not. I know Jesus personally, and l know that you have committed blasphemy against The Holy Spirit, but don't believe me, you just wait and see.

Jesus prophesied about the end of the end times where blasphemy would be rife, these days are here and you are dead already but you just don't know it. Satan lives in you, sad to say that he will lead you to his lair.
Warner

Bathgate, UK

#96 Jun 13, 2014
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Oops, forgot to add this...
To be fair, there is also evidence that Jesus was actually married to Mary of Magdalene. The myth of her having been a prostitute is unsupported by anything in the gospels, and is most likely a later addition to the body of myths surrounding Jesus by the misogynistic priesthood of the early church.
So you have now changed your mind and say that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalena so after saying that St John was the Lord's homo lover you now say something else meaning what exactly?

There is no evidence in the Bible that Jesus married Mary Magdalena or anyone else. There is scripture that says that Jesus removed a number of demons from Mary Magdalene cleansing her and He can do that for everyone. She did not return to roll in the mud again or go back to her vomit and she remained clean. The Bible does not say what the demons were that were removed from Mary Magdalene and it would be speculative to say that she was a prostitute.

I have heard preachers speculate on that point but never Christian apologists debaters who have the greater wisdom and operate like Christian prophets. It only matters what the Bible says and there are only a small number of preachers who would say that Mary M was a prostitute. I personally take ministers/ preachers to task if they operate on speculation. Last time I did so,( though l hate doing it but it is my duty and job to do it,) l took a pastor to task for saying something inappropriate about Prophet Moses. I reminded him that Prophet Moses is a Pillar of the Christian Church and Jesus did not come to do away with Moses. He fumed for a a week but then he made a public apology from the pulpit that he was wrong and had misunderstood about Moses. Need l say that l did not publicly rebuke him but he publicly apologised for his error. Could a Muslim take an Imam to task, no l don't think so! The Christian Church is well run in the way that God has set it to be run and He is in charge of His Church.
Warner

Dublin, Ireland

#97 Jun 13, 2014
Quadratus wrote:
Before I get into your gross misunderstanding of Isaiahs Suffering Servant - I want to nail down the consistant teaching of the OT prophets on the blood sacrifice:
Here is what the prophet Job believed:
*[[Job 1:5]] KJV* And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
Apparently he did not believe repentance was sufficient in itself.
Both repentance and sacrifice are required.
Liam R is here as a False Prophet to put in place lies about the need for blood sacrifices and to commit blasphemy against Jesus. People like Liam R have long lost their conscience and they are damned by the Word of the Lord.

People like Liam R can be very successful in casting doubt about God's Scriptures if they are dealing with people who are not strong in their Christian Faith or are not knowledgeable about the scriptures. Note how he writes strongly as if his knowledge is superior but it must be a disappointment for him that he is up against strong mature Christians such as yourself who have excellent knowledge of the Bible so he will not be successful. Keep in mind that Liam R is the true definition of a False Prophet so you know that it is the Devil incarnate that you are dealing with. Only on rare occasions would l say such a thing but in this case l will say it. Tested his Spirit and my judgement is fair.
Quadratus

United States

#98 Jun 13, 2014
Agreed amigo,
I don't write for Liam, hes a lost cause.
He does make a good foil however. Through him I can present truth in an entertaining way that sticks with observers. In past battles on this subject I have had at least one observer note to me that it became apparent that those who think sacrifice is unnecessary had no leg to stand on.
That's primarily what I'm after.
I appreciate your posts too.
God bless you.
Quadratus

United States

#100 Jun 14, 2014
Think Liam will come back?
Warner

Bathgate, UK

#101 Jun 14, 2014
Do we care? What's the point. It's bad enough fighting off the spam merchants who are Muslim without him backing them up all the way. He says that no blood sacrifices are needed and Muslims agree with that point yet they are forever giving human sacrifices to Allah Baal.
Quadratus

United States

#102 Jun 14, 2014
For a guy as confident as he came across to be - he sure caved in a hurry.
By the way - Happy Fathers Day.

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