Comment: Let's allow Christians to ha...

Comment: Let's allow Christians to have their views

There are 1098 comments on the Belfast Today story from May 23, 2014, titled Comment: Let's allow Christians to have their views. In it, Belfast Today reports that:

Two clergymen sent the secularist 'Taliban' who dominate the media into fits of apoplexy this week.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Belfast Today.

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Warner

Edinburgh, UK

#1 May 23, 2014
Two clergymen sent the secularist ‘Taliban’ who dominate the media into fits of apoplexy this week. The preachers of liberalism and tolerance suddenly revealed that their tolerance does not extend to anyone from the Christian faith who dares comment on public issues.
The first target was the Roman Catholic Bishop of Down and Connor who dared to suggest that members of the Roman Catholic Church should ask those who sought their votes where they stood on the issues of abortion and gay marriage.
The second was Pastor McConnell who, commenting on the persecution of Christians across the world, especially in Muslim countries, and the use of Islam by those who committed acts of terror.
There were the usual cries for churchmen to keep their nose out of politics, that they were blackmailing voters into toeing the church line, and were encouraging homophobia, racism and even violence. All the usual tactics by those who praise pluralism, demand tolerance, and expect to be given freedom to propagate their belief system, but heaven help anyone from a Christian perspective who asks for the same opportunities.
The one thing I have discovered is that the most intolerant group in our society are those who flout their liberal credentials; they tend to be the most nasty, vicious and ruthless when it comes to suppressing the freedom of those who express a contrary position, especially if it is from a Christian point of view.
I listened to Father Tim Bartlett patiently justifying the comments made by the Bishop of Connor on the Stephen Nolan Show and only wished that some prominent clergymen from the Protestant churches had the same courage to resolutely argue the case as he did. His central point was that on these issues he believed that there was clear guidance from the Bible, and that the belief in the sanctity of life and the nature of marriage had important implications for the ordering of society. Therefore, they were political issues which he wished to give those who shared his faith clear guidance on. There were the usual cries of ‘you can’t impose your beliefs on others’ and this was interference in people’s right to make up their own minds.
This is an argument I have heard a number of times while canvassing during the election campaign.‘How dare you try to impose your beliefs on me,’ demanded another angry, red faced man whose blood pressure must have soared to dangerous levels through my very presence at his door. When I pointed out that the corollary of his argument was that he expected his beliefs to be accepted by me, I thought I was going to have to send for an ambulance. As I pointed out to him, many of the good things we take for granted today in our society only came about because people brought their Christian faith into the politics of the time in which they lived.
Wilberforce brought his Christian belief, and the idea that “out of one blood God made all nations of men”, to argue that slavery was wrong and fought against the accepted view of that time to finally get laws passed which banned slavery. The drive towards free education for all children was started by churches who provided schools and then persuaded parliament to make public provision.
It was mainly politicians from a Methodist background with a strong Biblical belief in justice for the poor who formed the Labour Party and laid the foundations of the welfare state.
So it is nonsense to suggest that people should leave their beliefs at the door of the Assembly as Anna Lo demanded in the Euro election debate this week.
The truth is we all bring our beliefs into the decisions we make. It seems that the only people who the liberal tyrants exclude from this right are those who have Christian views.
The other tactic used is to brand those who dare express their beliefs as bigots, homophobic, racists, supporters of violence, any derogatory label to force others who may be thinking of speaking their mind to think again.

Continues;
Warner

Edinburgh, UK

#2 May 23, 2014
Two clergymen sent the secularist ‘Taliban’ who dominate the media into fits of apoplexy this week. The preachers of liberalism and tolerance suddenly revealed that their tolerance does not extend to anyone from the Christian faith who dares comment on public issues.
The first target was the Roman Catholic Bishop of Down and Connor who dared to suggest that members of the Roman Catholic Church should ask those who sought their votes where they stood on the issues of abortion and gay marriage. The second was Pastor McConnell who, commenting on the persecution of Christians across the world, especially in Muslim countries, and the use of Islam by those who committed acts of terror.
There were the usual cries for churchmen to keep their nose out of politics, that they were blackmailing voters into toeing the church line, and were encouraging homophobia, racism and even violence. All the usual tactics by those who praise pluralism, demand tolerance, and expect to be given freedom to propagate their belief system, but heaven help anyone from a Christian perspective who asks for the same opportunities.
The one thing I have discovered is that the most intolerant group in our society are those who flout their liberal credentials; they tend to be the most nasty, vicious and ruthless when it comes to suppressing the freedom of those who express a contrary position, especially if it is from a Christian point of view.

I listened to Father Tim Bartlett patiently justifying the comments made by the Bishop of Connor on the Stephen Nolan Show and only wished that some prominent clergymen from the Protestant churches had the same courage to resolutely argue the case as he did. His central point was that on these issues he believed that there was clear guidance from the Bible, and that the belief in the sanctity of life and the nature of marriage had important implications for the ordering of society. Therefore, they were political issues which he wished to give those who shared his faith clear guidance on. There were the usual cries of ‘you can’t impose your beliefs on others’ and this was interference in people’s right to make up their own minds.
Warner

Edinburgh, UK

#3 May 23, 2014
Continues;

This is an argument I have heard a number of times while canvassing during the election campaign.‘How dare you try to impose your beliefs on me,’ demanded another angry, red faced man whose blood pressure must have soared to dangerous levels through my very presence at his door. When I pointed out that the corollary of his argument was that he expected his beliefs to be accepted by me, I thought I was going to have to send for an ambulance. As I pointed out to him, many of the good things we take for granted today in our society only came about because people brought their Christian faith into the politics of the time in which they lived.

Wilberforce brought his Christian belief, and the idea that “out of one blood God made all nations of men”, to argue that slavery was wrong and fought against the accepted view of that time to finally get laws passed which banned slavery. The drive towards free education for all children was started by churches who provided schools and then persuaded parliament to make public provision.
It was mainly politicians from a Methodist background with a strong Biblical belief in justice for the poor who formed the Labour Party and laid the foundations of the welfare state.
So it is nonsense to suggest that people should leave their beliefs at the door of the Assembly as Anna Lo demanded in the Euro election debate this week.
The truth is we all bring our beliefs into the decisions we make. It seems that the only people who the liberal tyrants exclude from this right are those who have Christian views.
The other tactic used is to brand those who dare express their beliefs as bigots, homophobic, racists, supporters of violence, any derogatory label to force others who may be thinking of speaking their mind to think again.
This is the tactic which has been used against Pastor McConnell in the wake of his remarks about aggressive Islam.
I didn’t hear all he said but I do know him well. One thing I can say is that his life demonstrates he is neither a racist nor a man who promotes violence.
His church supports hundreds of children in Africa through feeding them and educating them. Many of them will be from a Muslim or some other non-Christian background.
However, he takes no prisoners when it comes to his preaching. His congregation are not left wondering what he means at the end of his sermon.
On the issue he was addressing, the facts are clear, across the Muslim world Christians are cruelly persecuted; it is an issue which as a party we have raised in the House of Commons and which is recognised by the Foreign Office. Politicians are also struggling with the way in which young people are being recruited to commit acts of terror by Islamic preachers. Indeed one of them has been found guilty of that very crime in USA this week. These are political issues which cannot be shied away from.
People of Christian faith make up a big part of our society in Northern Ireland and I am glad that some of their leaders are speaking up on the issues of the day and I hope it will encourage ordinary members of their churches to do the same. Let them not be cowed into submission by the bigoted liberals who want to monopolise public debate.
Robin Hood

Alpharetta, GA

#4 May 23, 2014
Religious superstition is like dirty underwear
.
It should be kept private and personal
Quadratus

United States

#5 May 23, 2014
Appreciate your post Warmer.
Quadratus

United States

#6 May 23, 2014
Robin Hood wrote:
Religious superstition is like dirty underwear
.
It should be kept private and personal
While most religions have the same power over evil as non religion, there is one whose recommendations are an entire level of magnitude greater than its closest competitor. The standard of goodness level is the ability to keep good people good. New birth Christianity regularly demonstrates power to make bad people good.
Actual power over evil is quite different than superstition.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#7 May 23, 2014
Quadratus wrote:
<quoted text>
While most religions have the same power over evil as non religion, there is one whose recommendations are an entire level of magnitude greater than its closest competitor. The standard of goodness level is the ability to keep good people good. New birth Christianity regularly demonstrates power to make bad people good.
Actual power over evil is quite different than superstition.
A person who converts to ANY religion (including such as the Flying Spaghetti Monster) and devotes themselves to doing the best they can will go from bad to good. It is not any "power" of the religion, but the force of human will.
Warner

Edinburgh, UK

#8 May 23, 2014
All of mankind are quick to do evil and the only way that they will stop being evil is if they are filled with the Holy Spirit. Mankind without God Yahweh is doomed to be evil and those who are evil are doomed to be tares cast into the Fire at the harvest gathering.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
The heart that makes plans of depravity and feet that hasten to run to evil,

GOD'S WORD® Translation
a mind devising wicked plans, feet that are quick to do wrong,

Jubilee Bible 2000
a heart that devises wicked imaginations, feet that are swift in running to evil,

New American Standard Bible
Do not incline my heart to any evil thing, To practice deeds of wickedness With men who do iniquity; And do not let me eat of their delicacies.

King James Bible
Incline not my heart to any evil thing, to practise wicked works with men that work iniquity: and let me not eat of their dainties.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Do not let my heart turn to any evil thing or perform wicked acts with men who commit sin. Do not let me feast on their delicacies.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#9 May 24, 2014
Warner wrote:
All of mankind are quick to do evil and the only way that they will stop being evil is if they are filled with the Holy Spirit. Mankind without God Yahweh is doomed to be evil and those who are evil are doomed to be tares cast into the Fire at the harvest gathering.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
The heart that makes plans of depravity and feet that hasten to run to evil,
GOD'S WORD® Translation
a mind devising wicked plans, feet that are quick to do wrong,
Jubilee Bible 2000
a heart that devises wicked imaginations, feet that are swift in running to evil,
New American Standard Bible
Do not incline my heart to any evil thing, To practice deeds of wickedness With men who do iniquity; And do not let me eat of their delicacies.
King James Bible
Incline not my heart to any evil thing, to practise wicked works with men that work iniquity: and let me not eat of their dainties.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Do not let my heart turn to any evil thing or perform wicked acts with men who commit sin. Do not let me feast on their delicacies.
What a sad and pathetic view of mankind you have. Why do you say the Bible lied?

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image...
1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.

If all of mankind is evil, then obviously it is the way people were made, thus contradicting verse 31...
Quadratus

Troutdale, OR

#10 May 24, 2014
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
A person who converts to ANY religion (including such as the Flying Spaghetti Monster) and devotes themselves to doing the best they can will go from bad to good. It is not any "power" of the religion, but the force of human will.
Its not quite that simple.
There really is no equivalent to the Christian new birth experience in any other religion. Consistantly the best other religions have to off is that if you follow their teachings and have good character and decent impulses - you will stay good. It doesn't matter if you are Muslim, Mormon, or Atheist.
That is a consistant level of power over evil I have observed for years. Outside a few anomalies that's as good as it gets.
There is another power over evil though that is an entire level of magnitude greater than that.
Jesus Christ has for 2000 years consistantly shown ability to transform the worst of mankind into good people through the new birth.
Any belief system can keep good people good.
Only Jesus can take people marinated in bad - and make them good.
Quadratus

Troutdale, OR

#11 May 24, 2014
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
What a sad and pathetic view of mankind you have. Why do you say the Bible lied?
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image...
1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.
If all of mankind is evil, then obviously it is the way people were made, thus contradicting verse 31...
You play the contradiction card too easily.
Read Romans 1-5 and see if your apparent contradiction vanishes

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#12 May 24, 2014
Quadratus wrote:
<quoted text>
While most religions have the same power over evil as non religion, there is one whose recommendations are an entire level of magnitude greater than its closest competitor. The standard of goodness level is the ability to keep good people good. New birth Christianity regularly demonstrates power to make bad people good.
Actual power over evil is quite different than superstition.
Too bad we can't make God good!

THE GOD WHO SAYS 'DO NOT KILL', KILLS REPEATEDLY:
"there came out a fire from the Lord, and consumed the 250 men that offered incense" (Num. 16:35).
"the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died" (Num. 21:6).
"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound and I heal...." (Deut. 32:39).
"The Lord smote the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the Lord, even he smote of the people 50,070 men: and the people lamented, because the Lord had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter" (1 Sam. 6:19).
"The Lord kills, and makes alive: he brings down to the grave, and brings up" (1 Sam. 2:6).
"the hand of the Lord was heavy upon them of Ashdod, and he destroyed them, and smote them...." (1 Sam. 5:6).
"it came to pass about 10 days after, that the Lord smote Nabal, that he died" (1 Sam. 25:38).
"Who smote great nations and slew mighty kings...." (Psalms 135:10).
"For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many" (Isaiah 66:16).
"I will dash them one against another, even the father and the sons together, saith the Lord: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them" (Jer. 13:14).
"I have sent among you the pestilence after the manner of Egypt: your young men have I slain with the sword...." (Amos 4:10).
"For our God is a consuming fire" (Heb. 12:29).

THE GOD WHO SAYS 'DO NOT KILL' ORDERS KILLING:
"ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword. And five of you shall chase a hundred, and a hundred of you shall put 10,000 to flight: and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword" (Lev. 26:7-8).
"the Lord said to Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the Lord against the sun, that the fierce anger of the Lord may be turned away from Israel. And Moses said to the judges of Israel. Slay every one his men that were joined to Baal" (Num. 25:4-5).
"Vex the Midianites and smite them" (Num. 25:17).
"But of the cities of these people, which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breathes. But thou shalt utterly destroy them...as the Lord thy God has commanded thee" (Deut. 20:16-17).
"So Joshua smote all the country of the hills...he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord God of Israel commanded" (Joshua 10:40).
"As I listened, god said to the others,'Follow him through the city and kill, without showing pity or compassion. Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children...." (Ezek. 9:5-6).
"And the Lord sent you on a mission, saying 'Go and completely destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out.'" (1 Sam. 15:18).
"Attack the land of Merathaim and those who live in Pekod. Pursue, kill and completely destroy them' declares the Lord. Do everything I have commanded you" (Jer. 50:21).
"Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys" (1 Sam. 15:3).

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#13 May 24, 2014
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
What a sad and pathetic view of mankind you have. Why do you say the Bible lied?
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image...
1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.
If all of mankind is evil, then obviously it is the way people were made, thus contradicting verse 31...
One of the most prominent figures in modern church history, John Calvin, is strongly associated with a belief that is repugnant to most of Christendom, i.e., predestination. Most biblicists believe that God knows what will occur prior to the event but leaves man free to make the choice. In other words, men are free to choose what God already knows will happen. Calvin, on the other hand, stressed biblical pronouncements to the contrary. God doesn't just know ahead of time; he determines it; he fixes it; he plans it; it's his idea. In reality, Calvin viewed free will as myth. In so doing he highlighted one of the most serious, most prominent contradictions in biblical theology--free will versus determinism. His opponents rightly observed that the abolishment of free will destroys moral responsibility. But unfortunately for them literally scores of verses substantiate his position. An exhaustive list in descending order of strength would include the following:

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world,.... Having predestinated us...(Eph. 1:4-5),
"... to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be....whom he did predestinate,..." (Rom. 8:28-30),
".... because God hath from the beginning chosen you " (2 Thess. 2:13),
"....we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of God...after the counsel of his own will" (Eph. 1:11),
"For we are his workmanship,....,(Eph. 2:10),
"A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps" (Prov. 16:9),
"He will carry out what he has planned for me, and of many such matters He is mindful" (Job 23:14 Mod. Lang),
"Only, let every one lead the life which the Lord has assigned to him, and in which God has called him" (1 Cor. 7:17 RSV),
"...your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be" (Psalm 139:16 NIV),
"Man's goings are of the Lord; how can a man then understand his own way?" (Prov. 20:24),
"Many are the plans in a man's heart, but it is the Lord's purpose that prevails" (Prov. 19:21 NIV),
"Man's days are determined; you have decreed the number of his months and have set limits he cannot exceed" (Job 14:5 NIV),

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#14 May 24, 2014
Warner wrote:
All of mankind are quick to do evil and the only way that they will stop being evil is if they are filled with the Holy Spirit. Mankind without God Yahweh is doomed to be evil and those who are evil are doomed to be tares cast into the Fire at the harvest gathering.
It was God who created evil.

GOD CREATES EVIL:
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things" (Isa. 45:7).
"Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that good and evil come?" (Lam. 3:38).
"...that I may repent of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings" (Jer. 26:3).
"...all the evil which I purpose to do unto them; that they may return every man from his evil way; that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin" (Jer. 36:3).
"I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live. And I polluted them in their own gifts...." (Ezek. 20:25-26).
"For thus saith the Lord; as I have brought all this great evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them" (Jer. 32:42).
"...shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?"(Amos 3:6).

EVIL COMES FROM THE LORD:
"it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him" (1 Sam. 16:23).
"it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul...." (1 Sam. 18:10).
"the evil spirit from the Lord was upon Saul...." (1 Sam. 19:9).
"Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubles thee" (1 Sam. 16:15).
"the spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubles him" (1 Sam. 16:14).
"...evil came down from the Lord unto the gate of Jerusalem" (Micah 1:12).
"Thus saith the Lord, Behold I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbor, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun. For thou did it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun" (2 Sam. 12:11-12).
"God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem...." (Judges 9:23).

GOD DECEIVES:
"O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived...." (Jer. 20:7).
"if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel" (Ezek. 14:9).
"Ah, Lord God! Surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace; whereas the sword reaches unto the soul" (Jer. 4:10).
"...God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false, so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness" (2 Thess. 2:9-12).
Nun Atol

Alpharetta, GA

#15 May 24, 2014
Warner wrote:
Do not let me feast on their delicacies.
Here come's Warner
.
Hide the Twinkies

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#16 May 24, 2014
Quadratus wrote:
<quoted text>[blah blah blah snipped]
Only Jesus can take people marinated in bad - and make them good.
Your assertions are wholly unconvincing.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#17 May 24, 2014
GOD TELLS PEOPLE TO LIE:
"...and thou (Moses) shalt come, thou and the elders of Israel, unto the king of Egypt, and you shall say unto him, The Lord God of the Hebrews hath met with us: and now let us go, we beseech thee, three days journey into the wilderness, that we may sacrifice to the Lord our God" (Ex. 3:18) and "afterward Moses and Aaron went in, and told Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Let my people go, that they may hold a feast unto me in the wilderness." God is telling Moses to lie because the real reason is to escape.
"Samuel said, How can I go? if Saul hear it, he will kill me. And the Lord said, Take a heifer with thee, and say, I am come to sacrifice to the Lord" (1 Sam. 16:2). The Lord told Samuel to lie also, since he is actually going out to meet a son of Jesse to anoint him king. Yet, we are told in Prov. 12:22 that, "Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord."

GOD LIES:
Joshua 7:1 says, "The people of Israel broke faith in regard to the devoted things; for Achan...took some of the devoted things; and the anger of the Lord burned against the people of Israel" and God responds by saying in the 11th verse, "Israel has sinned, and they have also transgressed my covenant...." Yet, God did not tell the truth. Only Achan sinned, not all Israel, and Achan admits as much in the 20th verse by saying, "Indeed I have sinned against the Lord God of Israel...."

"He (David) shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever" (2 Sam. 7:13) and to David God says, "thine house and thy kingdom shall be established forever: thy throne shall be established for ever" (2 Sam. 7:16). God's prophecy failed. He didn't tell the truth. The Davidic line ended with Zedekiah and there was no Davidic king for 450 years when the Maccabeans established a dynasty, the first king being Aristobulus. Since the end of the Maccabean dynasty there has never been a king of the Jews. Second Kings 24:14 proves as much by saying, "He carried away all Jerusalem, and all the princes, and all the mighty men of valour, even ten thousand captives, and all the craftsmen and smiths. None remained, save the poorest sort of the people of the land."

If viewed together the following verses also show God engaged in prevarication. "...of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eat thereof thou shalt surely die" (Gen. 2:17), "God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die" (Gen. 3:3), "the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die" (Gen. 3:4), and "all the days that Adam lived were 930 years and he died" (Gen. 5:5). God said Adam and Eve would die on the day they ate of the tree and the devil said they would not. They ate of it and Adam lived to be 930 years old. In other words, God lied and the devil told the truth. Yet, according to Titus 1:2 "God never lies."

And finally, in Gen. 3:14 God said to the serpent, "...upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life...." Serpents do not now and never have eaten dust. If the serpent represents the Devil, he does not eat dust either; so, in either case God did not tell the truth.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#18 May 24, 2014
Quadratus wrote:
<quoted text>
You play the contradiction card too easily.
Read Romans 1-5 and see if your apparent contradiction vanishes
I just love biblical contradictions!

John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time;..."
Exodus 33:20, And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
John 6:46 "Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father."
1 John 4:12 "No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us."

Versus

Gen. 32:30 "And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."
Exod. 33:11 "And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend."
Num. 14:14 "...that thou LORD art seen face to face,..."
Job 42:5 "I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee."
Deut. 34:10 "And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,..."
Deut. 5:4 "The LORD talked with you face to face...."

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#19 May 24, 2014
You actually trust this Bible of yours to tell you about the afterlife?

Num. 23:19 "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent."
1 Sam. 15:29 "And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent."

Versus

Jonah 3:10 "And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not."
1 Sam.15:11 "It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king...."
Exod. 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
Psalms.42:10 "... for I repent me of the evil that I have done unto you."
Gen. 6:6 "And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart."
1 Sam. 15:35 "...and the LORD repented that he had made Saul king over Israel."
Quadratus

Troutdale, OR

#20 May 24, 2014
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
Your assertions are wholly unconvincing.
With all due respect:
Your unbelief is unconvincing.
I grew up a doubter.
I discovered a God Who is both powerful and good.
I have friends who were really bad - who were transformed into good when they trusted this God you say is bad.
You stick with your unbelief. Ill stick with good.

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