In tolerant San Francisco, Proposition 8 backer to head Catholic Church

Sep 23, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Bellingham Herald

Next week, a key player in the passage of Proposition 8 - a man who has decried the "contraceptive mentality" of modern life - will become the leader of the Catholic Church here in the city that thrust same-sex marriage onto the national stage, the birthplace of the Summer of Love.

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Qwerty26

Lewes, DE

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Sep 23, 2012
 

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He says, "people need to understand that "the church is not going to change its teaching...."

But they HAVE. Many times. Otherwise we would still be burning witches and torturing heretics. Granted, they have to be pulled, reluctantly, into a more humane view of the world, but they come along eventually. Otherwise they would have died out centuries ago. Society will only abide evil teachings for so long before those who spew them either change or die.

As for Mr James Aist (post above), you can believe whatever you want, whatever you are told. Just be aware that there are plenty who share your same religion who believe otherwise, and can show you just as clearly why their view is valid and yours is not. Don't pretend to know your deity's mind on this matter, is that not the height of haughtiness, to think that YOU personally know the mind of a deity? That you have the only truth? The words prideful, conceited, and arrogant also work.

Since: Apr 08

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Sep 23, 2012
 

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Not all Christians believe homosexuality is incompatible with Christian faith. Bishop John Shelby Spong has written about it in quite a bit of depth. Look for his books, in particular "Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism" and "Living In Sin?" to understand his argument for LGBT rights within a Christian context.

“NOW will ya give me”

Since: Sep 12

some fightin' room ? !

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Qwerty26 wrote:
He says, "people need to understand that "the church is not going to change its teaching...."
But they HAVE. Many times. Otherwise we would still be burning witches and torturing heretics. Granted, they have to be pulled, reluctantly, into a more humane view of the world, but they come along eventually. Otherwise they would have died out centuries ago. Society will only abide evil teachings for so long before those who spew them either change or die.
As for Mr James Aist (post above), you can believe whatever you want, whatever you are told. Just be aware that there are plenty who share your same religion who believe otherwise, and can show you just as clearly why their view is valid and yours is not. Don't pretend to know your deity's mind on this matter, is that not the height of haughtiness, to think that YOU personally know the mind of a deity? That you have the only truth? The words prideful, conceited, and arrogant also work.
Many churches in the past also supported slavery (and defended it vigorously on biblical grounds), and the subjugation of women.

OF COURSE churches have changed their teachings over time. And they will continue to do so.

Since: Dec 08

El Paso, TX

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Sep 23, 2012
 

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If the Catholic Church spent half of the time and money they expend fighting marriage equality and spend it on fighting divorce maybe they wouldn't appear to be such hypocrites.
Fat chance of that though, they'd rather stand in their pool of quicksand.

Since: Apr 08

Chagrin Falls, OH

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Sep 23, 2012
 

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TucksunJack wrote:
<quoted text>
Many churches in the past also supported slavery (and defended it vigorously on biblical grounds), and the subjugation of women.
OF COURSE churches have changed their teachings over time. And they will continue to do so.
They've changed their "unchanging holy scripture" countless times. How many translations of the Bible are really needed, in English alone?

“NOW will ya give me”

Since: Sep 12

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Sep 23, 2012
 

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Gay And Proud wrote:
<quoted text>
They've changed their "unchanging holy scripture" countless times. How many translations of the Bible are really needed, in English alone?
Which is EXACTLY WHY my church got rid of all our old bibles years ago. We use "Pastor Bob's Poetry and Home Beermaking Guide" instead.

THAT is what "FREEDOM OF RELIGION" is all about !

:)

And for the Autumnal Equinox on Saturday, we held our annual celebraton of this GREAT DAY that God has made for us by having our annual "Autumnal Equinox Bonfire" in the parking lot, and celebrated God's Great Day by painting our bodies pretty colors, dancing naked around the fire drinking Holy Communion Beer, and singing Great Praises to God for this wonderful Great Day He has made for us all !(We celebrate each equinox and solstice this way in our Christian church).

THAT is what "FREEDOM OF RELIGION" is all about !

:)

Since: Mar 09

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Sep 23, 2012
 

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Things are going to get really ugly.

Since: Aug 11

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Sep 23, 2012
 

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snyper wrote:
Things are going to get really ugly.
Naw. Most Catholics don't pay any attention to Church leadership.

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Sep 23, 2012
 

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WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
Naw. Most Catholics don't pay any attention to Church leadership.
You don't understand what is going to happen to all of those gay priests, nuns, conventuals and monastics in that archdiocese; not to mention the gay parochial school kids. The Vat II doctrine on individual conscience is going to suffer a real mangling.

The archbishopric of SF is barely a breath away from being made Cardinal, and THAT'S high policy.

It's going to be horrible.

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snyper wrote:
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You don't understand what is going to happen to all of those gay priests, nuns, conventuals and monastics in that archdiocese; not to mention the gay parochial school kids. The Vat II doctrine on individual conscience is going to suffer a real mangling.
The archbishopric of SF is barely a breath away from being made Cardinal, and THAT'S high policy.
It's going to be horrible.
Nothing will happen. They will stay living in the closet as they always have. Nobody will say anything. The archbishop will come and go. Many more San Francisco Catholics will join the second largest church in California by becoming ex-Catholics. The world will keep turning and Romney will lose and sink back into obscurity.

Since: Mar 09

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WasteWater wrote:
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Nothing will happen. They will stay living in the closet as they always have. Nobody will say anything. The archbishop will come and go. Many more San Francisco Catholics will join the second largest church in California by becoming ex-Catholics. The world will keep turning and Romney will lose and sink back into obscurity.
You really don't know RC culture much, do ya.(chagrin)

Since: Mar 07

The entire US of A

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Sep 24, 2012
 

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James Aist wrote:
Does God Approve of Gay “Marriage”?
Gay theology claims that the answer to this question is “Yes.” If it were true that God does not condemn homosexual behavior as sin in the context of a loving, committed and enduring homosexual relationship, then they would be right about that. However, as I have shown in my article in this series,“Re-thinking Homosexuality: Does the Bible Really Say “Don’t Do It?”,.......
Really, the question has no place in the law, so it's a bit of a moot point.

However, since God creates some people with only the ability to be attracted to the same gender, and instills in those people the SAME need for love, and family that everyone else experiences, it would seem to any sane person that, if God supports straight folks legally marrying, He would do the same for those he created as gay.

Otherwise, He would be a petty and twisted being who creates certain people only to torture and then condemn them for loving their families.

Fortunately, I don't follow that type of demented God.

It's sad that others do.

Since: Mar 07

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Sep 24, 2012
 

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snyper wrote:
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You really don't know RC culture much, do ya.(chagrin)
I think you have to have been born and raised catholic to understand that it's not a simple religious choice for most Catholics. It's not just which church you might attend on a Sunday.

It IS an entire culture. And one that holds on, even if you attempt to turn away.

“Equality First”

Since: Jan 09

St. Louis, MO

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#16
Sep 24, 2012
 
TomInElPaso wrote:
If the Catholic Church spent half of the time and money they expend fighting marriage equality and spend it on fighting divorce maybe they wouldn't appear to be such hypocrites.
Fat chance of that though, they'd rather stand in their pool of quicksand.
They know better than to preach and campaign against divorce. They would lose to many "believers", and their donations would dry up. On the other hand, their donations might go UP if they stopped working so diligently against gay people and their families. So it might be a wash where donations are concerned.

“Equality First”

Since: Jan 09

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James Aist wrote:
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God has everything to do with any relationship referred to as "marriage":
/
Not in a secular society, such as the United States. If that were the case, non-believers could not be married. Last time I checked non-believers were still being married here. Maybe you have the U.S. confused with Iran. Your god means nothing in civil marriage. And when your religious figures do perform civil marriages, they say "by the power vested in me by he state of (whichever)".

Since: Apr 08

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Sep 24, 2012
 

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James Aist wrote:
<quoted text>
God has everything to do with any relationship referred to as "marriage"
People were getting married long before Christianity came along. And they still get married all over the world without the benefit of any sort of Christian involvement.

And as others have pointed out, the United States is supposed to have freedom of religion as well as separation of church and state. That means that no one religious group, including Christians, get to dictate law to the whole country.

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Sep 24, 2012
 
snyper wrote:
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You really don't know RC culture much, do ya.(chagrin)
I guess not ;)

I do see the humor though.

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Gay And Proud wrote:
<quoted text>
People were getting married long before Christianity came along. And they still get married all over the world without the benefit of any sort of Christian involvement.
And as others have pointed out, the United States is supposed to have freedom of religion as well as separation of church and state. That means that no one religious group, including Christians, get to dictate law to the whole country.
Atheists get married. Religion is totally irrelevant to civil marrage.

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

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Sep 24, 2012
 

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Or it may be a blessing in disguise; it might be the final straw needed to get those people out of the church altogether by their own decision. The RCC is going to lose many parishioners over this in SF, and it will be due to the vatican's own arrogance.
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't understand what is going to happen to all of those gay priests, nuns, conventuals and monastics in that archdiocese; not to mention the gay parochial school kids. The Vat II doctrine on individual conscience is going to suffer a real mangling.
The archbishopric of SF is barely a breath away from being made Cardinal, and THAT'S high policy.
It's going to be horrible.

Since: Aug 09

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#27
Sep 25, 2012
 
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
James, I notice that you referenced passages in Mark and Matthew about divorce.
Did you notice that in those two citations, just prior to the sections you use, that Yeshua stated clearly that the Mosaic/Levitical/Deuteronomic code is not all of divine origin?
There is much about existence that seems to have moved beyond the postulated "original intent". For example, according to the record, humans were "intended" to be vegetarian, but were accomodated flesh-eating after the flood. Another is favor for pastoral nomadism vs city dwelling. Also changed.
Changes occur, and accomodation is part of the kindness of the Father.
Snyper,

In Genesis 1:29-31, scripture gives references to the creation of food. If these verses are taken literally, humankind was to be vegetarian.

But, if we look back into the archeological record 30,000 to 50,000 years and more, we find evidence of both Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon hunting and fishing. Obviously, before the Flood, whether following any pattern of belief or not, humankind was omnivorous.

I understand that we can survive on a fully vegetarian diet. But, I do not believe that eating any particular fauna is a cause for sin - except, of course, cannibalism. And even then, if one were to be faced with survival or death with only the remains of dead companions for sustenance, I believe consumption of human flesh would be a gift.

Respect for life and cognizance for the things given to us through the creation of life; understanding that we are necessarily a part of the entire ecological system appears to be the key. No disrespect at all for the vegetarian. But, I think that such a diet is purely a matter of personal choice.

Changes due to the "kindness of the Father" are certainly a valid way of considering how apparent disharmonies seem to develop.

Rev. Ken

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