Many 'Straight' Men Have Gay Sex
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#1 Sep 19, 2006
O.K., maybe I'm missing something here. How can a person be straight, and be having sex with another person of the same sex????? You've lost me! Either you're straight, or you're not. 10% of these "straight" men are not really telling the truth, or trying to tweek the stigma!
#2 Sep 19, 2006
Well, I guess having sex with men is equally as desireable as having sex with women, for most of the men in this study. I have always believed the human race is made to be bi-sexual. Individuals have preferences for gender, to be sure, but all are capable of bi-sexual behaviour. For myself, I have never wanted children, never wanted a commited relationship with a women, so being sexual with men has always been my choice. If I settled down with a man, it could only be in an open relationship, since I am not an object to be owned like a car, or a piece of furniture.
#3 Sep 19, 2006
these guys ought to stick with men. At least, they would have a chance of understanding how their partner thinks and would know better what they like in bed. And just think, having kids would strictly be a choice, cause it wouldn't happen by accident.
And an open relationship might be more possible, avoiding all the stupid jealousy stuff, by bringing someone home to share. yes, a better choice 'cause one isn't "owned" like their a piece of furniture or a car.
#5 Sep 19, 2006
Okay, I see how this works. These straight men only have gay "members" not gay "brains". A quote from one of these guys, "It pointed the way and started tugging me along, and I had no choice but to follow." Many men continue to lie to themselves.
#6 Sep 19, 2006
It depends on how one defines 'straight'. In this specific instance, we're neither talking about actual orientation nor behavior, but how the person identifies their self. These are primarily men whose lifestyle includes heterosexual relationships as their primary outlet, up to and including marriage. The bulk of these come from a cultural backgrounds that are generally perceived as far less tolerant of homosexuality in general. Some of them may actually be homosexual in orientation but living as though heterosexual due to the pressures put on them by their society. Some may be bisexual. And I suppose it's even possible that a few of them may enjoy the occasional fling with a guy just for the 'thrill' of doing something they perceive as 'naughty' or 'dangerous'.
It's not a simple black & white issue. Behavior while usually the manifestation of one's orientation, isn't always. The reasons why someone might act in ways that conflict with their orientation are complex and vary from individual to individual.
#7 Sep 19, 2006
Nothing to add. Inquisitarian's summary really says it all.
Some of these "straight" men may really be gay, without admitting it to themselves or their female spouses. Others may just be "naughty" or conflicted.
#8 Sep 19, 2006
It seems to me that we are all just sexual beings, why do we need any further definition than that.
I don't gender matters in adult sexual relations, I think the important thing is to either enjoy the casual encounters or the relationship, depending on what the individual wants. My only thought is if men are stepping out on their wives in secret, then that could cause problems. If a man and his wife have an open marriage, cool, less problems.
Sex is just sex regardless whether its with the same or opposite sex or both at once. Infinite variety is possible and desirable for some. As long as it is only CONSENTING ADULTS THAT ARE INVOLVED.
#9 Sep 19, 2006
An open relationship is emotionally difficult and requires a lot of tolerance and maturity from all involved. In most cases I don't think it is feasible, especially sincve it does not fit with the expectations in our spouses we all grew up with.
In an ideal world I would not have nay problems with your reasoning, except that I think the level of openness and maturity requiresd is against the human nature of most of us. Thus exploring the infinite variety you mention will inadvertantly hurt some people.
#10 Sep 19, 2006
In an ideal world you might be right - who needs further definitions!
The REALITY is, there are hundreds of thousands (maybe more) of men, who are engaging in M2M sex discreetly.
Call them gay, "in the closet," or "in denial" or "selfish" or whatever - the reality is there are A LOT more men who engage in same sex activity than was ever before belived.
Now, factor in the social stygima of being "gay" or "bi" and the religous attacks being levied against ANY AMERICAN who's not heterosexual or married or "saved" and you can see why HIV rates are rising fastest among young men and men of color.
We've never been able to legislate morality and this is no exception.
The more America "embraces" the "religious right" the more people will be hurt.
OH, and let's also not fall prey to the "Sexual" aspect of this report. Sexual activity is a MEASURE - it is NOT a "cause and effect" in any way shape or form.
These men who are having sex with other men yet still identifying as Str8 are doing this NOT SOELY for sexual gratification. We must not allow this argument to be an indictment of promiscuity.
To me, this is CLEARLY an indicator that same-sex activity is MUCH more prevalent than most had estimate.
These men are looking for something (NOT JUST SEX) that they aren't getting fulfilled in their "str8" world.
Yes, sex is a part of it, but i would argue that this activity is much more an indication that homosexuals are NOT a marginalized community - just one that continues to be attacked and villified.
I belive this argument can also best be looked at in the context of the Abortion debate. If u recall, that debate was as much about having access to a SAFE medical procedure - and not the "back ally" doctors where women were mamed and thousands died in an attept to get an abortion. Yes, it was also about "a woman's right to choose" but can't that same argument be made about homosexuality?
A woman's right to "choose" is now the law of the land. Yet,(and i'm not saying being gay is a choice) even if being gay WAS a choice - why can a woman have the right to CHOOSE to have a safe abortion yet gay men NOT be allowed to CHOOOSE who they love and have sex with?
Yes, it may be a streach, but with the hudreds of thosands of str8 men engaging in M2M sex, should'nt we as a society be MORE concerned that they be allowed to explore and engage in consensual sexual expression with another adut - and NOT continue to push these men into the more unsafe areas they are forced to go now for that expression?
#11 Sep 19, 2006
The men who aren't gay haven't been given the key to come out of the closet.
#12 Sep 19, 2006
the longest lasting gay relationship I have known of in my life lasted for 50 years before both of my friends passed away due to old age. They were indeed very mature and jealous free and thoroughly enjoyed the occasional stranger either of them might choose to bring home. This was a very open, affirming and positive gay relationship. All other gay relationships I have seen have seldom lasted longer than 5 years, for whatever reasons.
#13 Sep 19, 2006
Sex is sex , sometimes a person (man or woman) wants to have sex, and only partner available is somone of the same sex who may also have the same desires. So relax, there's nothing wrong with it, it feel good, no pressure, just do what feels good to you and do it to them. No matter man or woman.
"Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't."
#14 Sep 20, 2006
It is interesting reading this post---
I want to tell those who posted on her and also for those who will read this thread without posting, but also hold to the notion that if a person engages in sexual behavior with someone of the same gender-then they are "gay and haven't admitted it yet." That's 100% Prime USDA BULL HOCKEY PUCKS
Well friends and fellow countrymen and women--there is very much such a thing as bisexuality--and it is alive (maybe not well thanks to a society that is phobic of anything not ok'ed by the purveyors of mass culture) and all around us.
If it were totally accepted and not much of a big deal--you would be SHOCKED---SHOCKED--to find at just how many people--men and women--are living a bisexual lifestyle.
Human sexuality is not something set in stone--there are as many variations as there are people--
It does seem to be the case that many gays and lesbians have trouble accepting bisexuality just as "straights" do---they do so for their own--largely political reasons....
Another one of the criticisms of bisexualty beyond recognition and acceptance of its existence--- is that if you are bi then you are promiscuous and non-monogamous----that is not neccesarily true---
Look at the promiscuity and non-monogamous nature of most "str8s"---
These issues with bi's are no different than they are for str8, gays/lesbians or any other human beings---
Bisexuality exists--it is noting new---simply having sex with someone of the same gender does not automatically make one gay or lesbian----if people were free to be openly and proudly bi-I would bet my last dollar that at least 80 percent of the population--at least here in Western countries and even in repressive, closed societies like China and Saudi Arabia would "come out" as bisexual--then it would be no big frigging deal----
#15 Sep 20, 2006
I don't think anyone would argue that there are many bisexual folks in the USA and the world.
The problem with bisexuality, in my opinin, is that the issue with bisexuals is that they JUST focus on sex - an issue we gay folks fight every day to debunk. Gay people are villified as being promiscious and sex-focused and evil.
Consensual sex between adults is not an issue for me. However, EVERY bisexual (and i used to identify as one many years ago) is always quick to say - I'm BI not GAY!
Ok, so let me get this right, you want to have the freedom to have sex with men and women, but in the same breath, make a statment that disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of gay Americans by making a statment that makes being "Gay" sound bad or less.
Being GAY is not about where you put your penis or vagina - its about where you put your HEART!
Until i was really mature enough to truely look inside myself and see who i was and what i needed to be truely happy (in terms of the gender of the person i would want to spend the rest of my life with)- i too thought i could love my wife and have sex with men and be good to go.
That turned out to be a bad decision, because as i continued to grow, i discovered that my "love" for my wife while genuine, it was not a love of DEVOTION. Because i came to understand that i could only be truely devoted to a person of the same sex.
So, do bisexuals exist? Yes, in large numbers. Do i belive that you can only truely DEVOTE yourself to one Gender in terms of a life-committment? YES!
Whenever i talk with folks who are bi, i always try and convince them that they are HEDONISTS! Becuase that's really what they are - and thats not judging being a hedonist as a bad thing-it is really what they are.
Look at the definition:
noun 1. a person whose life is devoted to the pursuit of pleasure and self-gratification.
If you identify as bisexual, I ask you only one key question: Deep in your heart, what is the gender of the person you belive you will spend the rest of your life with - or TRUELY LOVE and be DEVOTED TO.
#16 Sep 20, 2006
bob, normally i agree with you, but on this case as in some others i believe that you are reading too much into things.
your statement that bisexuals 'just focus on sex' is a bit of painting with a very broad brush. it may be true, but then again, many gays and straights are just as hedonistic as bis. there are many people of all varieties who do not want a monogamous relationship at all... they are only in it for the sex.
#17 Sep 20, 2006
They're bisexual. Enjoy sex with both men and women. It happens. They're not going straight to gay or gay to straight. How they choose to live their lives is another matter.
Sherwood Park, Canada
#18 Sep 20, 2006
Wow, congratulations on managing to fit the maximum amount of negative stereotyping about bisexuality in the smallest space. You claim to be "mature enough", but I would suggest your post indicates otherwise.
It is said the that oppressed and stereotyped can be the worst oppressors and the worst abusers of sterotypes in lieu of reason to try to make their point. You could be the poster child for that claim.
What's so hard to accept about a person being able to love people of both genders? Why do you label that as lust, and can accept it as love?
You are a bisexual-phobe. But don't worry, as a bisexual man, I will not spread your bad karma around - I will continue to support my gay brothers and sisters, and work with them to make the world a better and more just place.
#19 Sep 20, 2006
I do not see how I made any statment in my posting that disenfranchises gays in any fasion--you certainly did that with your sweeping generalization about bisexuals only being interested in sex--
You do prove my point about gays seemingly having more problems with Bi's than do many straights--
The only thing in the post that I wish to modify about my original post---I said most staights are promiscuous--I meant to say that "many" obviously are---
I do apologize for that-I did not edit the post quite as good as I might have wished but then again--this is not the best format for doing good edits--
As far as "sex" being a focus of my life--I have had many sexual experiences with women and some men--I always held disdain for the notion that I should consider sex is a primary identifying element of my life--it is only more one component in it--just like I had a career in the military--(perhaps my most defining element)--that I am of Irish-Catholic descent and spent my formative years bouncing between the deep south and the corn belt of the midwest-- that I was in law enforcement for a time too-- that I am a writer and an artist-- and a sometime professional chef--that I like football and NASCAR, golfing and boating--whatever my flavor of my sexual makeup is----it is just one more ingredient that makes up the jambalaya of my life-another seasoning in the pot as it were---
#20 Sep 20, 2006
It seem so me that being BI is a bit on the promiscuous than either str8 or gay/lez, wherein a str8 or gay person may only form their exclusivity as to partner with the one of their choice.
Wheras bi people are constantly looking at the sexiness of all people and not concentrating on their primary relationships. Just a thought. I wouldn't mind having a man and a woman in bed w/me at the same time, then I could get kinky!!!:-)/
#21 Sep 20, 2006
Ok, then perhaps you should ask Ellen DeGeneres how she feels about Anne Heche!
As it applies to sex, as a gay man i'm sick and tired of folks only seeing a dick-in-an-ass when they think of Gay men (just talking about my perspective here).
There is a big difference between LOVE and SEXUAL INTIMACY. I truely believe that we have the capacity to "love" many people in our lives - but in very clear degrees.
I LOVE my son, but i'm not IN LOVE with him.
I LOVE my exwife, but i came to understand that i was never really IN LOVE with her.
I AM IN LOVE with my partner of 10 years. Our bond is one I thought i could never really have in my life, and i don't take it for granted.
Could i engage in sex with a woman right now if i so choose? Yep. Can i become sexually aroused by seeing a beautiful sexy woman? Yep.
Could i promise to love her and no other the way i love my partner? NO WAY IN HELL.
Please, bisexuality is about sexual contact and sexual intimacy.
Its FINE if you are bisexual. Hell, as i said before - i'm bisexual in that i am fully capable of having and enjoying sex with either men or women.
THE DIFFERENCE is about TRUE LOVE AND COMMITTMENT! I have never met a bisexual person who said "Yep, i can love a man or a woman with equal ease, devotion and committment."
Sorry, you can have sex with EITHER gender, but belive that deep in one's heart they KNOW the GENDER of the person they want to spend the rest of their life with - and that's either MALE or FEMALE.
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