Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against ...

Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?

There are 16100 comments on the news.yahoo.com story from Apr 27, 2009, titled Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?. In it, news.yahoo.com reports that:

The trouble they see is not just an America where general support for gay marriage will have driven a wedge between churches and the world, but between churches themselves.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at news.yahoo.com.

Since: Aug 08

Somewhere in Ireland

#13845 Apr 18, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>Hi par five,
May I add that, if a fundie ever agreed with your viewpoint, then they are no longer a fundie.
It is drilled into a fundie's head (I know, I once was a fundie) that you HAVE to take the whole Bible as literal or you have, more or less, sinned against God and the Bible, etc. And, that you most likely will go to hell.
My older sis and I use to have conversations about things in the Bible, and, once she became comfortable talking with me as a Catholic, and her being a southern Baptist, she opened up and actually listened to my viewpoints/beliefs and agree completely with me on many of them, yet, at the end, she would always say 'but, Nettie, I am going to keep on believing just the way I always have, because I have to'.
Fear.
To me, the word 'fear' explains it.
Hi Nettie, fear is as good a word as any to explain why fundies are as they are. I just find it impossible to understand how fundies think genocide is ok. Like you I don't believe the acts of genocide recorded in the bible were carried out at the behest of any god, but carried out by men alone. As fundies believe every word of the bible to be true this creates a problem for them as they have no option but to believe their god ordered such barbarity, hence their unwillingness to say such a thing is wrong, as any right minded person knows. Anyway, on a happier note, the weekend approaches and the golf course beckons. Have a great weekend yourself Nettie. Now watch the judgits fly!
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#13846 Apr 18, 2013
Ezekiel 16:49-50 declares, "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me..."

The Hebrew word translated "detestable" refers to something that is morally disgusting and is the exact same word used in Leviticus 18:22 that refers to homosexuality as an "abomination."

Similarly, Jude 7 declares, "...Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion." So, again, while homosexuality was not the only sin in which the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah indulged, it is the primary reason for the destruction of the cities.
Ant

Alpharetta, GA

#13849 Apr 18, 2013
Oscar Wilde_ wrote:
<quoted text>Really, so why are you so filled with hate.
Do you engage in and support incest, pedophilia and bestiality? Surely you do, since they were also condemned in Leviticus and Jesus never spoke directly against them.
Here is what Jesus said:
Did Jesus Ever Condemn Homosexuality?
By Mike Benson
Click for printable version
Question:“Is there any place in the New Testament where Jesus actually condemned homosexuality? If so, I have not been able to find it....It seems to me that if the Savior didn’t say it was wrong, then neither should we.”
Answer: While it is true that there is no NT record of where Jesus explicitly stated that homosexuality is wrong, He did in fact condemn the behavior. A careful study of the Bible will bear this out. Please read the following Bible passages and then consider the questions which follow:
1. And He answered and said to them,“Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’“and said,‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh?’”(Matt. 19:4.)
Questions: What did Jesus say about God’s creative work? Did He make Adam and Joseph? Did He create male and male, or did He create male and female? According to this passage, what has been God’s plan for sexual union [one flesh] since the beginning of time? Was His plan for a male partner to be joined to another male partner, or was it for a husband to be united to his wife? According to this passage, is a man to cleave to his male partner, or to his spouse?
Consider: Since Jesus approved of His Father’s plan [i.e., one man, one woman, one flesh,] could we correctly say that Jesus condemned homosexuality?
2.“For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”(John 5:46-47.)
Questions: What law was Jesus born under? What law did He live under? Answer: The Law of Moses (cf. Gal. 4:4.) Did Jesus endorse and follow the Law of Moses? What did the Law of Moses say about homosexuality?(Lev. 18:22; 20:13; Deut. 23:17.)
Consider: Since Jesus was born and lived under the Law of Moses, and since He endorsed the Law of Moses, and since the Law of Moses explicitly condemned homosexuality, then could we correctly say that Jesus also condemned it?
AMEN!!!, This is 100% truth for all the loophole seekers out there that think Jesus came along to abolish Gods law. Homosexuality is sexual immorality and is a sin

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#13850 Apr 18, 2013
par five wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps you would like to show where I have ever said I accept the murder of anyone, adult or child. You fundies come out with crap about people without giving any consideration to the truth. Of course, fundies can't let a thing like truth get in the way of their hatred, can they?
You obviously accept the slaughter of those you consider evil, well that would make you just as evil and a hypocrite. The horrors inflicted by Nazi Germany were as evil as it gets, their attempt to erradicate Jews and other minorities well documented, with many who suffered under that barbarous regime still around to recount those horrors. Using your "logic", it would have been perfectly acceptable for the victorious allies to have set about killing every German, man, woman and child in order to assure that never again that nation would inflict such evil on the world! Does that thought give you a smirk you sicko?
Do you support abortion?

Smile.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#13851 Apr 18, 2013
Thinking wrote:
The bible endorses paedophilia.
The bible endorses rape.
The bible endorses slavery.
But sex between two consenting gay adults is wrong?
Looks like what the bible really hates is consent.
"I am the only way." Again, coercion.
Just f**k off jesus!
<quoted text>
You might want to change your avatar...

Anal sex is inherently harmful, unhealthy and demeaning. That is just a medical fact.

Smile.

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#13852 Apr 18, 2013
OldJG wrote:
Ezekiel 16:49-50 declares, "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me..."
The Hebrew word translated "detestable" refers to something that is morally disgusting and is the exact same word used in Leviticus 18:22 that refers to homosexuality as an "abomination."
Similarly, Jude 7 declares, "...Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion." So, again, while homosexuality was not the only sin in which the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah indulged, it is the primary reason for the destruction of the cities.
I obviously can't argue Liam's points, only Liam can but I will challenge you: Send Liam a personal Topix e-mail inviting him back to this thread to respond to the scriptures your post- I want to see if you really have the balls to stand up to a scholarly rebuttal.

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#13853 Apr 18, 2013
RubyTheDyke wrote:
<quoted text>
I obviously can't argue Liam's points, only Liam can but I will challenge you: Send Liam a personal Topix e-mail inviting him back to this thread to respond to the scriptures your post- I want to see if you really have the balls to stand up to a scholarly rebuttal.
Also curious, if "detestable" is a modifier how can it also be that which it modifies?

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#13854 Apr 18, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh? Fascinating. Please cite that "review of peers."
By the way, what was the methodological flaw in the study?
<quoted text>
If there's only one study so far on the subject, how many studies are there to cite? Dumbass.
Besides, the existence of a single study doesn't make a conclusive, or even compelling, statement about anything. The scientific method demands replication, as well as scrutiny of methods to eliminate bias (something that wasn't done in that study, which led to biased results).
<quoted text>
You referred to homosexuals as "faggots." Maybe if you weren't a bigot, I wouldn't call you a bigot. Weird, eh? Treating you the way you demand to be treated based on your behavior? Imagine that.
I don't understand your use of the term "rate." Be clear with your words, or else I will assume that you're equivocating. You'd hardly be the first bigot to do so, so it doesn't take much to reach that conclusion.
That's funny, on what basis is the claim made that lesbians make better parents than natural parents?

The Regnerus study had the same outcomes as numerous studies that included adoptive, foster, step and single parents. The only added distinction was lesbian couples (no gay couples were found with long term child care).

Again, you avoid addressing why a lesbian in any one of those situations would fare better than natural parents.

When all who disagree with gay marriage are generalized as fundies, I simply respond in kind with faggot. Seems like a fair point to make, don't you think?

Smirk.

Since: Aug 08

Somewhere in Ireland

#13855 Apr 18, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you support abortion?
Smile.
I have stated my view on abortion so many times on Topix that I am fed up doing so, but if you tell me whether or not you believe killing men women and children in an act of genocide is right or wrong I will tell you what I feel about abortion!

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#13856 Apr 18, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
It is right next to the text that requires love and sex.
Duh!
<quoted text>
I deliberately added love and sex to bearing children, because those are the primary reasons for marriage. The law assumes those are present, hardly necessitating a 'requirement'.
Jack and Jill
Sitting in a tree
K I S S I N G
First comes love
Then comes marriage
Then comes a baby in the baby carriage
You really are an idiot.
Smile.
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Nursery rhymes? Wow. Thanks for your contribution.
Is love required for a civil marriage? Simple question. Yes or no?
And, beyond that, does the state have any concern whether there is love in a marriage or not? If you went to apply for a marriage license with someone else, and you told the people at the city hall that you were getting married for purely business reasons and there was no love between you, do you think they'd deny you a marriage license?
I thought that would trip your trigger.

Even a nursery rhyme exposes your duplicity.

Repeating the same question while ignoring the answers is childish and stupid. Your avatar fits.

Smirk.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#13857 Apr 18, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
By the way, marriage only recently (starting in the 1800's) was a primarily love-based enterprise in the Western world. Until then, they were generally arranged affairs between families, with daughters being a contractual connection that would be finalized with an heir (male, of course). Love was irrelevant. Marriage was not about curbing evolutionary mating behavior; it was about determining inheritance rights.
Here's an idea: learn history. Reality makes so much more sense when you understand what's come before and you don't have to make shit up to fill in the gaps of your ignorance. Wouldn't that be neat? Try it sometime.
Song of Solomon.

Romeo and Juliet.

I could list countless other examples.

Gay twirl BS.

You really are an idiot.

Smile.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#13858 Apr 18, 2013
OldJG wrote:
Ezekiel 16:49-50 declares, "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me..."
The Hebrew word translated "detestable" refers to something that is morally disgusting and is the exact same word used in Leviticus 18:22 that refers to homosexuality as an "abomination."
Similarly, Jude 7 declares, "...Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion." So, again, while homosexuality was not the only sin in which the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah indulged, it is the primary reason for the destruction of the cities.
I usually see the word that you have as "detestable" translated as "abomination"; in fact, it is the Hebrew word <tow'evah> and it is ALWAYS used to refer to things that are detestable BECAUSE they are part of the worship of foreign Gods. Ezekiel was saying that Sodom was not worshiping the God of the Bible.

For example, Ezekiel calls weeping an abomination. Obviously, weeping in and of itself is not a sin, but the women in the passage were weeping as part of the annual celebration for Tammuz, a foreign God...

Ezekiel 8:13 He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do.
8:14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#13859 Apr 18, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
I usually see the word that you have as "detestable" translated as "abomination"; in fact, it is the Hebrew word <tow'evah> and it is ALWAYS used to refer to things that are detestable BECAUSE they are part of the worship of foreign Gods. Ezekiel was saying that Sodom was not worshiping the God of the Bible.
For example, Ezekiel calls weeping an abomination. Obviously, weeping in and of itself is not a sin, but the women in the passage were weeping as part of the annual celebration for Tammuz, a foreign God...
Ezekiel 8:13 He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do.
8:14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.
From my mouth to God's ear! Just sent an e-mail asking for ya, Doll, thanks for coming!

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#13860 Apr 18, 2013
RubyTheDyke wrote:
<quoted text>
I obviously can't argue Liam's points, only Liam can but I will challenge you: Send Liam a personal Topix e-mail inviting him back to this thread to respond to the scriptures your post- I want to see if you really have the balls to stand up to a scholarly rebuttal.
I am here. I try to keep up with this thread. There are several others that I'd like to keep up with also, but time prevents...

The "problem" is not whether or not he has the testicular fortitude to debate, but whether he has the wit to debate with proper citation, to accept when he loses a point, and with proper referral to the actual language of the Bible: Hebrew. My bet is that he will bluster, not debate, and refuse to accept any concept that he disagrees with, regardless of the validity.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#13861 Apr 18, 2013
OkieDarren wrote:
<quoted text>
Your "study" remains absolute hogwash, a total falsehood, but AGAIN--has NOTHING AT ALL to do with the subject at hand. Gay couples marrying don't cause there to be ANY more gay people, or ANY more children of gay couples. Not a single one.
And there is nothing remotely "unnatural" about gay couples, or step-parents, or adoptive parenting (which you conveniently left out, you're attacking those parents just as much with your claptrap about "natural" parents)
Oki,

Vehement denials and saying liar is not a cognitive argument.

When you have a logical response, let me know. Otherwise, I'd suggest you find a different platform than a debate site.

Smile.
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#13862 Apr 18, 2013
Oscar Wilde_ wrote:
<quoted text>Really, so why are you so filled with hate.
Do you engage in and support incest, pedophilia and bestiality? Surely you do, since they were also condemned in Leviticus and Jesus never spoke directly against them.
Here is what Jesus said:
Did Jesus Ever Condemn Homosexuality?
By Mike Benson
Click for printable version
Question:“Is there any place in the New Testament where Jesus actually condemned homosexuality? If so, I have not been able to find it....It seems to me that if the Savior didn’t say it was wrong, then neither should we.”
Answer: While it is true that there is no NT record of where Jesus explicitly stated that homosexuality is wrong, He did in fact condemn the behavior. A careful study of the Bible will bear this out. Please read the following Bible passages and then consider the questions which follow:
1. And He answered and said to them,“Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’“and said,‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh?’”(Matt. 19:4.)
Questions: What did Jesus say about God’s creative work? Did He make Adam and Joseph? Did He create male and male, or did He create male and female? According to this passage, what has been God’s plan for sexual union [one flesh] since the beginning of time? Was His plan for a male partner to be joined to another male partner, or was it for a husband to be united to his wife? According to this passage, is a man to cleave to his male partner, or to his spouse?
Consider: Since Jesus approved of His Father’s plan [i.e., one man, one woman, one flesh,] could we correctly say that Jesus condemned homosexuality?
2.“For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”(John 5:46-47.)
Questions: What law was Jesus born under? What law did He live under? Answer: The Law of Moses (cf. Gal. 4:4.) Did Jesus endorse and follow the Law of Moses? What did the Law of Moses say about homosexuality?(Lev. 18:22; 20:13; Deut. 23:17.)
Consider: Since Jesus was born and lived under the Law of Moses, and since He endorsed the Law of Moses, and since the Law of Moses explicitly condemned homosexuality, then could we correctly say that Jesus also condemned it?
AMEN!!!

Truth....ABSOLUTELY!!!

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#13863 Apr 18, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Song of Solomon.
Romeo and Juliet.
I could list countless other examples.
Gay twirl BS.
You really are an idiot.
Smile.
Silly, ignorant child. Ever hear the expression "the exception proofs the rule"? Romeo and Juliet tried to marry for love, and look how that turned out for them. All of Solomon's marriages were arranged affairs, if one happened to develop into love, so much the better for him. But then, was the woman married to Solomon at all? He had many concubines...
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#13864 Apr 18, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
I usually see the word that you have as "detestable" translated as "abomination"; in fact, it is the Hebrew word <tow'evah> and it is ALWAYS used to refer to things that are detestable BECAUSE they are part of the worship of foreign Gods. Ezekiel was saying that Sodom was not worshiping the God of the Bible.
For example, Ezekiel calls weeping an abomination. Obviously, weeping in and of itself is not a sin, but the women in the passage were weeping as part of the annual celebration for Tammuz, a foreign God...
Ezekiel 8:13 He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do.
8:14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.
God shows Ezekiel four abominations that Judah was involved in; <idolatry, worship of beast, worship of Tammuz, and the priest participating in sun worship.>

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#13865 Apr 18, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
I am here. I try to keep up with this thread. There are several others that I'd like to keep up with also, but time prevents...
The "problem" is not whether or not he has the testicular fortitude to debate, but whether he has the wit to debate with proper citation, to accept when he loses a point, and with proper referral to the actual language of the Bible: Hebrew. My bet is that he will bluster, not debate, and refuse to accept any concept that he disagrees with, regardless of the validity.
Well, Darling, all I have to say is

ATTENTION OLDGJ, OSCAR WILDE, ET AL: WECOME TO YOUR ROAD TO DAMASCUS MOMENT!

And you're right, Doll, it'll be interesting to see if they get past their arrogant delusions of themselves as "the teachers of the heathen" and in truth and humility be taught to their own illumination

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#13866 Apr 18, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
God shows Ezekiel four abominations that Judah was involved in; <idolatry, worship of beast, worship of Tammuz, and the priest participating in sun worship.>
VERY good, you read the wider context of what was there. I am so proud of you, you are beginning to learn. All of those things were indeed forbidden to the children of Israel.

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