Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?

There are 16103 comments on the news.yahoo.com story from Apr 27, 2009, titled Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?. In it, news.yahoo.com reports that:

The trouble they see is not just an America where general support for gay marriage will have driven a wedge between churches and the world, but between churches themselves.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at news.yahoo.com.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#1114 Jan 27, 2013
I just realized what a funny sentence that was, Jeff!

"has been shown to be historically true by historical methods that are used in the study of history."

That should be in the next Austin Powers movie or something. Hilarious!

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#1115 Jan 27, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
That interpretation is not on based on prejudice but on what scholars tells us what is meant when Jesus said this.
Homosexuality is inherently harmful. Consider this from the CDC:
"Gay and bisexual men ó referred to in CDC surveillance systems as men who have sex with men (MSM) of all races continue to be the risk group most severely affected by HIV. CDCís most recent data show that between 2006 and 2009,
the number of new infections that occur each year increased among young MSM ó driven by an alarming 48 percent
increase among young, black MSM 13 to 29 years old. These data clearly show the urgent need to expand access to proven
HIV prevention programs for gay and bisexual men, and to develop new approaches to fight HIV in this population.
A Snapshot
t MSM account for nearly half of the 1.1 million people living with HIV in the United States (52%, or an estimated
592,100 total persons).
t MSM account for more than half of all new HIV infections in the United States each year (61%, or an estimated 29,300
infections).
t While CDC estimates that only 4 percent of men in the United States are MSM, the rate of new HIV diagnoses among
MSM in the United States is more than 44 times that of other men (range: 522 Ė 989 per 100,000 MSM vs. 12 per
100,000 other men)." http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/2012...
So don't claim homosexual sexual practices are not harmful when in reality they are very harmful.
You've been corrected on this before, yet you insist on repeating it.

You have no idea what married gay couples do - or what married straight couples do.

My husband and I will never cause harm to each other, period.

You're insane and obsessed.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#1116 Jan 27, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
The "plumbing" argument is an argument from design. Men and women are designed to complement each sexually. Same sex people are not. We know this from the many diseases from gay sex. The body is not designed for this kind of sex.
Ignoring spam.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#1117 Jan 27, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
If people were created for same sex activities then the "plumbing" would match the desires. Secondly, there is no evidence people are born gay. There has yet to be found a gay gene.
Ignoring spam.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#1119 Jan 27, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus certainly did speak against homosexuality in Matt 5:32 and 19:9 where He uses the word "unchastity" and "immorality" which includes adultery, incest, premarital infidelity, homosexuality, bestiality and any other sexual conduct condemned in the OT.
Confused much?

“LIFE'S TO SHORT TO LET TOPIX”

Since: Aug 08

TROLLS GET YA DOWN:-)

#1120 Jan 27, 2013
Born_Again_Christian wrote:
Tony,
Actually, yes I can say you are not a Christian because
1 Corinthians tells me if you are a homosexual then you will not inherit the kingdom of God. Notice verse 11 it says some of you were once like that. Meaning you are no longer like this. So no according to the word you are not Born again.
1 Corinthians 6
9 Donít you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Donít fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, 10 or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat peopleónone of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. 11 Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
<quoted text>
Actually God NEVER stated that.....Paul did......1 Corinthians is just letters by Paul to the Corinthian people!!!!
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#1121 Jan 27, 2013
Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
That's nonsense.
That's like saying God didn't make infertile men because it doesn't make sense. Or God didn't make redheads because red hair has no function. Or God didn't make kids born with no legs because it doesn't seem right.
Who the hell are you to second guess God?
Why is it so beyond the scope of your narrow reasoning (and clearly inferior brain) to think hmmm...maybe this is just one of those things we will never understand - why does God make ugly people if they are less likely to reproduce? Why does God allow some people to die in their teens, before they have had a chance to procreate? That can't be right, because everyone has to procreate, right? See how stupid that sounds?
Maybe for whatever reason, I'm not meant to have kids. Maybe my genetic makeup is going off in a direction that would eventually not be a good way to go, and so nature has stopped me from having kids. Maybe I'm meant to raise someone else's kids, which is obviously filling a societal need. Maybe I'll cure a disease (wait - you mean there are other worthy things you can do in life besides procreate? Ummm...yes. Ever hear of nuns?)
It is not for you to question what God made. That was my furthest point from God in my life, was when I was questioning how He could make me this way. Not just questioning, but outright defying. It was the one prayer I prayed improperly. I asked for MY will be done, rather than THY will be done, because it would have been easier for me to be straight. It wasn't until I realized that prayer was in contradiction to all my other prayers in which I trusted God and knew He had a purpose for everything else that seemed bad at first - losing a job, etc. I trusted Him on those things but not this thing. On this thing, I wanted my way and my earthly desires.
Guess what - what I wanted did not matter. God made me this way. He has a reason, and I trust Him. And ever since accepting that, I have felt much closer to God, and He has blessed me and my husband with a wonderful life.
People who live against God don't have wonderful lives IMO. They are burdened with struggles and so forth. My struggles ended when I learned to fully trust God.
You would do well to do the same, and stop being an arrogant ass. You will never pray over this issue as much as I have.
Your right Tony. God made you a certain way and that way is straight. That is what your body is designed sexually for a woman and not a man.
Don't kid yourself. Everyone struggles. If they are not, they are suppressing the truth in unrighteousness.
If God's purpose was for homosexual sex why is it condemned in every place in Scripture? Why is it never affirmed?

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#1123 Jan 27, 2013
Born_Again_Christian wrote:
Tony,
Actually, yes I can say you are not a Christian because
1 Corinthians tells me if you are a homosexual then you will not inherit the kingdom of God. Notice verse 11 it says some of you were once like that. Meaning you are no longer like this. So no according to the word you are not Born again.
1 Corinthians 6
9 Donít you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Donít fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, 10 or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat peopleónone of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. 11 Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
<quoted text>
Again, the word "homosexual" wasn't even invented until 1869. When you see it in the bible, you know it is a modern mistranslation and misinterpretation of the original texts.

Notice too, all you list except homosexuality, are things we know today to be inherently harmful, while committed adult relationships based on mutual love and respect harm no one.

"The original Greek word often quoted as sexual immorality Paul used was "porneia" which means "a harlot for hire". In Corinth in the temples of Venus, the principal deity of Corinth, where Christians went to worship, a thousand public prostitutes were kept at public expense to glorify and act as surrogates for the fertility Gods. This sex with the pagan Gods is what Paul was talking about - fornication is an admitted mistranslation and has nothing to do with gays or singles sex. This rendering reflected the bias of the translators rather than an accurate translation of Paul's words to a culture of 2000 years ago worshipping pagan sex gods." (Rev. Dr. Mel White)

"What the Bible forbids is acts of lust, rape, idolatry, violation of religious purity obligations, or pederasty, but no condemnation of homosexuality in relationships of mutual respect and love. "On the other hand, the Bible pointedly celebrates instances of same-sex emotional intimacy, a fact often overlooked by fearful homophobic readers." James B. Nelson, Professor of Christian Ethics, United Theological Seminary

Yet you want to use a mistranslation of a few verses to justify ignoring the Golden Rule.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#1124 Jan 27, 2013
Born_Again_Christian wrote:
Norcal Native,
Does not matter it was inspired by God. Paul like Moses and others were inspired by God to write these words. It was not just to the Corinthian people it was to all who are Christians during that time and today.
<quoted text>
Other problems aside, again, the words in your modern English mistranslation are not the words Paul used. Paul used "porneia" which means "a harlot for hire". This has been mistranslated and misinterpreted over the ages to "homosexual".

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#1125 Jan 27, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, Jesus fulfilled all righteousness so that he can be worthy of paying the debt for those that didn't. That is why the thief on the cross was saved by his faith in Christ, not because he did had the right baptism. The thief was saved without water baptism at all.
<quoted text>
He never said it had to be done exactly the way he did it. He never said that baptism had to be by immersion only, never.
<quoted text>
I'm not telling anyone not to get baptized. I'm telling you that baptism the way the Methodists do it is just as legit as the way the Baptist do it. And Jesus never, ever said it had to be by immersion. Not once. He never "said" it, so you lie when you say "you're part of that Christianity that decides what Jesus said to do as not being important to do", you lie. But I'm saying that if a person dies without a chance to get baptized, he is saved by the blood of Christ anyway, without the water baptism. Proof, the thief on the cross.
To be continued...
See, this some more of your irrationality in interpreting verses as it fits your personal agenda for how you want it to fit your way of thinking.
Jesus never said he was saved. Jesus never said he wasn't saved. Jesus said he'd be with him in paradise that day. You're interpreting paradise as a place where saved spirits go after death. But you haven't researched the English word 'paradise' in contrast to it's Greek version or it's Hebrew version. Neither have you researched scholarly opinion of what scholars think and feel was being said and how it was meant.
What is convenient for you, is to believe in an ancient traditional RCC based teaching that after living a life of selfish pleasures and endeavours, maybe having committed murder and mayhem, robbery and theft, at one's death all one has to do is say "I believe in Jesus" and they'll be saved without having to repent.
The Bible doesn't endorse any such type death bed salvation. Jesus never taught it. The apostles never taught it. But you do so have at it.
As I said, you don't understand the Bible. If we are all saved by the blood of Christ as you say, we can be murders and rapists and thiefs and anything. According to you (as you stated with the thief on the cross) the blood of Christ saves us so we need not repent like the thief on the cross didn't repent. And you claim to know the gospel? Right.
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#1126 Jan 27, 2013
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, you're right I did!!!
But you CAN'T take what I feel about formalized religion and try to apply to Education.......and even if you did, we would still be able to gain knowledge from the life experiences of those who educate and also by the curriculum that schools follow!!!
Again, there is a difference between one's religious beliefs and institutionalized education......why because their is reality being taught.......with religion, THERE IS NO REALITY being taught, but faith!!!
Do you have life experience? or formalized education? Do you have only a high school education? or higher education? If higher education.....how high? Community College? Undergraduate? or Post-Graduate?
See, that would make a difference in how you see things!!!
Get serious. There are seminaries dedicated to teaching the Bible as truth that is grounded in history. There literally thousands of scholarly books and articles about various things in the Bible that are presented as facts.
What institutional learning does is that it allows for discussion and research. It allows for correction for beliefs. This is what makes Christianity so powerful.
What you have is nothing like this. It has no power to withstand any scrutiny and there is no way to know what you believe is true or not because there is no facts to support it.
My education level is not that high as you can tell :( There are lots and lots of smarter people than me. Its just that I have yet to meet one out here in forum land.

“LIFE'S TO SHORT TO LET TOPIX”

Since: Aug 08

TROLLS GET YA DOWN:-)

#1127 Jan 27, 2013
Born_Again_Christian wrote:
Norcal Native,
Does not matter it was inspired by God. Paul like Moses and others were inspired by God to write these words. It was not just to the Corinthian people it was to all who are Christians during that time and today.
<quoted text>
That is your claim......that doesn't mean they were inspired by God or any other spiritual entity......lol!!!

Again, it was not for anyone but the Corinthians, the fact that the Catholic opted to have it canonized doesn't mean squat!!!

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#1129 Jan 27, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Your right Tony. God made you a certain way and that way is straight. That is what your body is designed sexually for a woman and not a man.
Don't kid yourself. Everyone struggles. If they are not, they are suppressing the truth in unrighteousness.
If God's purpose was for homosexual sex why is it condemned in every place in Scripture? Why is it never affirmed?
What the Bible forbids is acts of lust, rape, idolatry, violation of religious purity obligations, or pederasty, but no condemnation of homosexuality in relationships of mutual respect and love. "On the other hand, the Bible pointedly celebrates instances of same-sex emotional intimacy, a fact often overlooked by fearful homophobic readers." James B. Nelson, Professor of Christian Ethics, United Theological Seminary

(see Ruth and Naomi, David and Jonathan, among others.)

“LIFE'S TO SHORT TO LET TOPIX”

Since: Aug 08

TROLLS GET YA DOWN:-)

#1132 Jan 27, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Get serious. There are seminaries dedicated to teaching the Bible as truth that is grounded in history. There literally thousands of scholarly books and articles about various things in the Bible that are presented as facts.
What institutional learning does is that it allows for discussion and research. It allows for correction for beliefs. This is what makes Christianity so powerful.
What you have is nothing like this. It has no power to withstand any scrutiny and there is no way to know what you believe is true or not because there is no facts to support it.
My education level is not that high as you can tell :( There are lots and lots of smarter people than me. Its just that I have yet to meet one out here in forum land.
So, just because seminaries opt to brainwash more potential Religious leaders still DOESN'T make your bible anything but passed down stories!!!

There are Biblical Scholars who would disagree with you. Without looking at these SUPPOSED thousands of books.....I'll call BS!!!

ANY COLLEGE OR UNIVERSITY that allows for the students to truly think on their own!!!

My beliefs are mine......they are grounded in what I have taken from both areas of my Religious training......and what I have experienced throughout my life and the lives of others!!!

Well, at least you are honest about your education and yes, there are smarter folks both in the "REAL" world and on topix.......some have already posted to you, the fact that you can't see that is why you can't think for yourself!!!

“LIFE'S TO SHORT TO LET TOPIX”

Since: Aug 08

TROLLS GET YA DOWN:-)

#1133 Jan 27, 2013
Born_Again_Christian wrote:
Not Yet Equal,
No, the word sodomite was used before the word homosexual. Sodomite means one who has anal sex. If you read 1 and 2 Kings you will learn about the Sodomites of the land who were cast out.
<quoted text>
Sodomites were people from Sodom.....THE WORD HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HOMOSEXUALITY OR ANAL SEX.......and your bible is irrelevant to those who don't believe in it!!!!

So, please explain to me what the word EFFEMINATE mean?
Jane Dodo

Hoboken, NJ

#1134 Jan 27, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Homosexual sexual practices cannot be healthy. There is just no way getting around this. Of course we should be discriminating against same sex "marriage" or any other kind of crackpot configuration of marriage beyond a man and a woman. The reasons are that only a marriage between a man and a woman can procreate naturally and is the very best way to raise children. Marriage should be based on opposite genders and not on what a person does for a living.
I hope you and your partner don't get sick. But you are the exception to the rule and not the norm.
No Jeff. They ARE the norm. You read too much propaganda.
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#1135 Jan 27, 2013
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
What the Bible forbids is acts of lust, rape, idolatry, violation of religious purity obligations, or pederasty, but no condemnation of homosexuality in relationships of mutual respect and love. "On the other hand, the Bible pointedly celebrates instances of same-sex emotional intimacy, a fact often overlooked by fearful homophobic readers." James B. Nelson, Professor of Christian Ethics, United Theological Seminary
(see Ruth and Naomi, David and Jonathan, among others.)
Where does the Bible speak of homosexuality or homosexual sexual practices in an affirming way?

The Bible does condemn homosexuality in Leviticus 18:22, Mark 7:21, Romans 1:27 and I Cor 6:9.

Don't fall for the nonsense that Ruth and Naomi, David and Jonathan were homosexuals. There is not one shred of evidence this was the case.
Jane Dodo

Hoboken, NJ

#1136 Jan 27, 2013
Born_Again_Christian wrote:
Norcal Native,
I will believe the Bible. The Bible says All scripture is inspired by God.
Um.... you do realize that your post is a textbook example of the circular reasoning fallacy, don't you? You did not prove your point. You are illogical.

“LIFE'S TO SHORT TO LET TOPIX”

Since: Aug 08

TROLLS GET YA DOWN:-)

#1137 Jan 27, 2013
Born_Again_Christian wrote:
Norcal Native,
I will believe the Bible. The Bible says All scripture is inspired by God. You cannot prove otherwise.
<quoted text>
Actually, it is already been done.....the bible is written by man.......there is no evidence to say they were inspired by God or a snake!!!

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#1138 Jan 27, 2013
Born_Again_Christian wrote:
Tony,
Actually, yes I can say you are not a Christian because
No, you can't. Stopped reading right there. You are nobody. You cannot declare me not a Christian. End of story.

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