Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?

Apr 27, 2009 Full story: news.yahoo.com 16,104

The trouble they see is not just an America where general support for gay marriage will have driven a wedge between churches and the world, but between churches themselves.

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“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#313 Jan 21, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
You are so self righteous in your definition of what a bigot is while defend one of the most racist, and bigot church in America. Bigotry is fine and dandy with you as long as someone is claiming God said it.
Feel free to call me a bigot when it comes to Mormonism because I openly say I hate the LDS church. It is a foul and disgusting excuse of a religion, just like Islam, using and abusing the good of of the Lord to repress and degrade people. I also hate the KKK, Communist, and the Nazi's if you want to keep a record of what I hate. Some groups earn it.
You can polish a turd all day, and it will still be a turd.
It's funny how some of these anti-gays develop their own language or talking points and then we all have to muddle through it - as if this discussion would ever exist anywhere else with another person (people trying to turn around the use of the word bigot.)

So, I guess then we'll call it good bigots and bad bigots (I'm not any bigot at all LOL.) Good bigots are bigoted against bad bigots, and bad bigots are just your run of the mill bigots against same sex marriage. Ta-da!
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#315 Jan 21, 2013
Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
When you are trying to say something is God's Word, and actively use it against fellow American citizens, then you'd better damned well be sure it is 100% inerrant.
You can reasonably make the claim the bibles are against murder. It is repeated hundreds of times, clearly.
You cannot reasonably make the same claim about homosexuality. It is only in there a handful of times, inconsistently, and really only boils down to ONE instance. All the others have been discredited as mistranslations, whether intentional or not, when the ancient texts were talking about things like temple prostitutes, which was erroneously translated into homosexuality in modern versions (I suspect on purpose.)
Worshipping any version of the bible as an idol is a detriment to an active, spiritual relationship with God. Using it against others to interfere in their lives is blasphemous.
There is not one positive statement on homosexuality in the Bible. I don't use the Bible against people but I do refuse to let people think that it speaks well of homosexuality or that it is not a sin in either testaments. I have heard many try to interpret the Bible to support their agendas but fail on close scrutiny. The passages in Leviticus or Romans has nothing to do with things like temple prostitutes. Its not even alluded to in these passages.

Since Jesus condemns such activity in Mark 7:21 why would you persist in it?
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#316 Jan 21, 2013
Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
You're really not good at this whole "following logic" thing.
#1 There is nothing you can do to "dissuade" anyone from being gay. You can, however, dissuade them from being promiscuous. My marriage sets that example.
#2 whoop de doo, you know 4 people. How many more people do you know who died of self inflicted cancer or heart attacks due to their LIFESTYLE?
#3 Being gay did not cause them to get sick. Having sex with an infected partner caused them to get sick. This is easily aviodable. I avoided it, and so have most people I know.
#4 Your statistic is silly, skewed by old data from when HIV/AIDS caused death much faster (people can live very much normal and long lives with it now) and not applicable to gay men without HIV. What will be your excuse when there is a cure?
#5 There are plenty of STD's among heterosexuals. Do you discourage heterosexuals from being heterosexual? No, you encourage them to be careful and less promiscuous. You encourage monogamy and marriage.
#6 As I've said before, if you REALLY are concerned about diseases (and I strongly doubt you are) then you MUST support gay marriage as an option that virtually guarantees neither partner will get a disease. If you don't support gay marriage, then you are a hypocrite and a liar who puts personal prejudice above any concern for disease. So stop acting like you're concerned about disease and just say you don't like homosexuality.
You really don't have a marriage because marriage has always been defined as between a man and a woman. A man cannot be a wife and a woman cannot be a husband. All you are doing is pretending.

Help me out. If gay sex is so healthy why is it that so many that engage in it get very sick from it? If its such a natural thing to do, then why are so many that are doing it getting so sick and dying from it?

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#317 Jan 21, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
There is not one positive statement on homosexuality in the Bible. I don't use the Bible against people but I do refuse to let people think that it speaks well of homosexuality or that it is not a sin in either testaments. I have heard many try to interpret the Bible to support their agendas but fail on close scrutiny. The passages in Leviticus or Romans has nothing to do with things like temple prostitutes. Its not even alluded to in these passages.
Since Jesus condemns such activity in Mark 7:21 why would you persist in it?
Leviticus says what it says on the subjects and the people for whom it was written have been discussing, interpreting and reinterpreting what it means for 3000+ years. It says what it says in a book which few Christians have probably read in full, let alone who practice everything it commands unerringly if at all. You have chosen to believe that God doesn't approve of "homosexuality/homosexual sexual behaviors/and/or homosexuals", not even Leviticus makes it clear that is what He says.

As for Paul's horrified description of the same sex sexual acts being committed by the presumably heterosexual Christians of Rome, he clearly says that those acts were in fact God's doing as the first of His paybacks for their idolatry. You have read the entire text, haven't you? Paul, although himself a husband and a father, was not a big fan of sex among his fellow Christians, he thought your highest calling was to keep your legs crossed for Jesus, period. His writing disparagingly of God was doing to these straight folk's sex lives isn't surprising, it must have been a shock to the old guy's system.

Reality, the Bible simply doesn't address the subject of God's homosexual children directly, positively or negatively. It can be said, when taken completely out of its context, that "the Bible" condemns same sex sexual acts, but it is the product of its time and what they knew or thought they knew about "homosexuality" isn't what or how we know it today. Many Christians have come to believe that God's view is that the rules are the same for all of us, gay or straight, there is no special condemnation for you just because what you are doing is with someone of the same sex, nor does it offer an excuse. God decides who gets His Christianity right, right?

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#318 Jan 21, 2013
NoQ wrote:
<quoted text>
There's good shiteaters and bad shiteaters. Are you a good one or a bad one???
You are proof your mother likes to have sex with donkeys, because you're a jackass. The best part of you ran down your mother's leg
aussiejohn

Madrid, Spain

#320 Jan 21, 2013
NoQ wrote:
<quoted text>
LMFAO nice one shiteater, that would be Lililth you're talking about, that's her thing, and she dam sure ain't my mom.
Heard you couldn't possibly know who your momma was, cause the day you dropped out, there were too many people taking a shit that day and couldn't possibly know who shit out the turd you are. That's ok, just saved your momma the embarrassment and shame of what you turned out to be, a nasty A$$ shiteating Fa$$ot.
Wow, are you two this angry all day long? Maybe you need a warm cup of something a sit down somewhere quiet. Don't you think expressing yourselves this way just makes the pair of you look kinda pathetic?
aussiejohn

Madrid, Spain

#322 Jan 21, 2013
Wow, you really missed my point huh?

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#323 Jan 21, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
There is not one positive statement on homosexuality in the Bible. I don't use the Bible against people but I do refuse to let people think that it speaks well of homosexuality or that it is not a sin in either testaments. I have heard many try to interpret the Bible to support their agendas but fail on close scrutiny. The passages in Leviticus or Romans has nothing to do with things like temple prostitutes. Its not even alluded to in these passages.
Since Jesus condemns such activity in Mark 7:21 why would you persist in it?
Leviticus doesn't matter or you'd be fighting to ban shellfish too - unless you're a hypocrite (oh yes, you are.)

Romans is the only one of the handful of passages you can possibly take seriously. Biblical scholars will tell you one of the most important aspects of understanding it is to find other passages to confirm what you think one passage means. Yet here sits this one passage, you assume to be about homosexuality.

It certainly isn't about committed gay marriages.

If it were as important as you make it out to be, don't you think it would have been VERY clear - like the passages about adultery, divorce, loving thy neighbor, resting on the Sabbath (I hope you don't watch football or go to Walmart on the Sabbath, do you, hypocrite?)

Next.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#324 Jan 21, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
You really don't have a marriage because marriage has always been defined as between a man and a woman. A man cannot be a wife and a woman cannot be a husband. All you are doing is pretending.
Help me out. If gay sex is so healthy why is it that so many that engage in it get very sick from it? If its such a natural thing to do, then why are so many that are doing it getting so sick and dying from it?
Ah, the perils of dealing with the ignorant and irrational as if they can hold up a discussion...

Yes, I really do have a marriage, regardless of your little opinion. We were married by a Reverend, before our families and God, and recognized by State government. Hold your breath awhile, and you should see that expanded by June (can you imagine the Gay Pride festivals at the end of June this year? They'll be fantastic.)

Your words cannot reduce it to anything less than what WE say it is; and that is marriage.

You have no effect on us.

In fact, it's more of a marriage than most of you failures who have a kid and then get divorced in 5 years.

There is no "pretending" going on. There are no "wives" involved. There is no one "pretending" to be a "wife." We are two husbands. We are both men. Deal with it. The only "pretending" going on is on your side.

OK I will help you out, since you asked. First of all, it is very common for stupid people and/or anti-gay people (usually the same) to assume that the way things are NOW is "the way things are."

Do you have no capacity to understand that HIV/AIDS is temporary in its current incarnation, just as polio was, just as tuberculosis was? What happened to those? They were pretty much eradicated, right? You have a pocket flare up here or there, but once a cure was discovered, they were more or less cured. So were those who died of polio being punished, and then suddenly there were fewer people who required punishment? Did only those few who get it here and there require punishment?

The number of people (heterosexual and homosexual) who engage in anal sex (the only one I assume you are hung up on) and end up with HIV is small.

We have these things called condoms. If you want to protect yourself, you use them. Bada Bing!

My personal opinion is you should not engage in anal (or vaginal) sex unless you are in a committed relationship and have both been tested. But that's a high standard most don't live up to.

My husband and I have been married almost 6 years. We have never had anal sex in that time. Does that matter? We have sex, just not that kind of sex.

When I was a bartender, I went home with people here and there. There was never anal sex. And nobody was disappointed or expected anal sex. A quickie BJ is so much easier and just as much fun. No muss, no fuss.

Other people have different norms, gay or straight. There are straight girls who are total whores, and gay guys who are total prudes.

When marriage is a common goal, realistic and attainable, you have less random sex going on, both before and after marriage.

Again, you should be supporting gay marriage, hypocrite. Stop pretending to be so hung up on diseases, when you are just anti-gay, and that's all there is to it.

If you were really so concerned about disease, you would support gay marriage and safe sex.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#325 Jan 21, 2013
Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah, the perils of dealing with the ignorant and irrational as if they can hold up a discussion...
Yes, I really do have a marriage, regardless of your little opinion. We were married by a Reverend, before our families and God, and recognized by State government. Hold your breath awhile, and you should see that expanded by June (can you imagine the Gay Pride festivals at the end of June this year? They'll be fantastic.)
Your words cannot reduce it to anything less than what WE say it is; and that is marriage.
You have no effect on us.
In fact, it's more of a marriage than most of you failures who have a kid and then get divorced in 5 years.
There is no "pretending" going on. There are no "wives" involved. There is no one "pretending" to be a "wife." We are two husbands. We are both men. Deal with it. The only "pretending" going on is on your side.
OK I will help you out, since you asked. First of all, it is very common for stupid people and/or anti-gay people (usually the same) to assume that the way things are NOW is "the way things are."
Do you have no capacity to understand that HIV/AIDS is temporary in its current incarnation, just as polio was, just as tuberculosis was? What happened to those? They were pretty much eradicated, right? You have a pocket flare up here or there, but once a cure was discovered, they were more or less cured. So were those who died of polio being punished, and then suddenly there were fewer people who required punishment? Did only those few who get it here and there require punishment?
The number of people (heterosexual and homosexual) who engage in anal sex (the only one I assume you are hung up on) and end up with HIV is small.
We have these things called condoms. If you want to protect yourself, you use them. Bada Bing!
My personal opinion is you should not engage in anal (or vaginal) sex unless you are in a committed relationship and have both been tested. But that's a high standard most don't live up to.
My husband and I have been married almost 6 years. We have never had anal sex in that time. Does that matter? We have sex, just not that kind of sex.
When I was a bartender, I went home with people here and there. There was never anal sex. And nobody was disappointed or expected anal sex. A quickie BJ is so much easier and just as much fun. No muss, no fuss.
Other people have different norms, gay or straight. There are straight girls who are total whores, and gay guys who are total prudes.
When marriage is a common goal, realistic and attainable, you have less random sex going on, both before and after marriage.
Again, you should be supporting gay marriage, hypocrite. Stop pretending to be so hung up on diseases, when you are just anti-gay, and that's all there is to it.
If you were really so concerned about disease, you would support gay marriage and safe sex.
"What you bond on earth shall be bound in heaven."

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#326 Jan 21, 2013
NoQ wrote:
<quoted text>
LMFAO nice one shiteater, that would be Lililth you're talking about, that's her thing, and she dam sure ain't my mom.
Heard you couldn't possibly know who your momma was, cause the day you dropped out, there were too many people taking a shit that day and couldn't possibly know who shit out the turd you are. That's ok, just saved your momma the embarrassment and shame of what you turned out to be, a nasty A$$ shiteating Fa$$ot.
A message from the Church of Joseph Smith of Latter-day Aints.
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#328 Jan 21, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>Leviticus says what it says on the subjects and the people for whom it was written have been discussing, interpreting and reinterpreting what it means for 3000+ years. It says what it says in a book which few Christians have probably read in full, let alone who practice everything it commands unerringly if at all. You have chosen to believe that God doesn't approve of "homosexuality/homosexual sexual behaviors/and/or homosexuals", not even Leviticus makes it clear that is what He says.
As for Paul's horrified description of the same sex sexual acts being committed by the presumably heterosexual Christians of Rome, he clearly says that those acts were in fact God's doing as the first of His paybacks for their idolatry. You have read the entire text, haven't you? Paul, although himself a husband and a father, was not a big fan of sex among his fellow Christians, he thought your highest calling was to keep your legs crossed for Jesus, period. His writing disparagingly of God was doing to these straight folk's sex lives isn't surprising, it must have been a shock to the old guy's system.
Reality, the Bible simply doesn't address the subject of God's homosexual children directly, positively or negatively. It can be said, when taken completely out of its context, that "the Bible" condemns same sex sexual acts, but it is the product of its time and what they knew or thought they knew about "homosexuality" isn't what or how we know it today. Many Christians have come to believe that God's view is that the rules are the same for all of us, gay or straight, there is no special condemnation for you just because what you are doing is with someone of the same sex, nor does it offer an excuse. God decides who gets His Christianity right, right?
Of course the Bible addresses the issue of homosexuality directly in a number of places and in every instance it is condemned. It is a serious sin to engage in.
Even nature is against the practice of homosexuality. Man is not designed to have same sex and the consequences for those who engage in it is deadly. So why do it?
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#329 Jan 21, 2013
Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah, the perils of dealing with the ignorant and irrational as if they can hold up a discussion...
Yes, I really do have a marriage, regardless of your little opinion. We were married by a Reverend, before our families and God, and recognized by State government. Hold your breath awhile, and you should see that expanded by June (can you imagine the Gay Pride festivals at the end of June this year? They'll be fantastic.)
Your words cannot reduce it to anything less than what WE say it is; and that is marriage.
You have no effect on us.
In fact, it's more of a marriage than most of you failures who have a kid and then get divorced in 5 years.
There is no "pretending" going on. There are no "wives" involved. There is no one "pretending" to be a "wife." We are two husbands. We are both men. Deal with it. The only "pretending" going on is on your side.
OK I will help you out, since you asked. First of all, it is very common for stupid people and/or anti-gay people (usually the same) to assume that the way things are NOW is "the way things are."
Do you have no capacity to understand that HIV/AIDS is temporary in its current incarnation, just as polio was, just as tuberculosis was? What happened to those? They were pretty much eradicated, right? You have a pocket flare up here or there, but once a cure was discovered, they were more or less cured. So were those who died of polio being punished, and then suddenly there were fewer people who required punishment? Did only those few who get it here and there require punishment?
The number of people (heterosexual and homosexual) who engage in anal sex (the only one I assume you are hung up on) and end up with HIV is small.
We have these things called condoms. If you want to protect yourself, you use them. Bada Bing!
My personal opinion is you should not engage in anal (or vaginal) sex unless you are in a committed relationship and have both been tested. But that's a high standard most don't live up to.
My husband and I have been married almost 6 years. We have never had anal sex in that time. Does that matter? We have sex, just not that kind of sex.
When I was a bartender, I went home with people here and there. There was never anal sex. And nobody was disappointed or expected anal sex. A quickie BJ is so much easier and just as much fun. No muss, no fuss.
Other people have different norms, gay or straight. There are straight girls who are total whores, and gay guys who are total prudes.
When marriage is a common goal, realistic and attainable, you have less random sex going on, both before and after marriage.
Again, you should be supporting gay marriage, hypocrite. Stop pretending to be so hung up on diseases, when you are just anti-gay, and that's all there is to it.
If you were really so concerned about disease, you would support gay marriage and safe sex.
It is a pretend kind of thing even if the law approves of it. Help me out. How is it possible for a man to be a wife? How is it possible for a man to be a mommy?

BTW- there is no such thing as "safe sex". Just look at the stats on STD's and abortions and tell me how safe this is. There is always going to be these problems and there will never be a total cure. Even now those who are lucky enough to afford these drugs are not even close to being 100% healthy.

“ ILKS r kewl ”

Since: Apr 09

Conch republic

#330 Jan 21, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
You really don't have a marriage because marriage has always been defined as between a man and a woman. A man cannot be a wife and a woman cannot be a husband. All you are doing is pretending.
Help me out. If gay sex is so healthy why is it that so many that engage in it get very sick from it? If its such a natural thing to do, then why are so many that are doing it getting so sick and dying from it?
Help me out. If HETERO sex is so healthy why is it that so many that engage in it get very sick from it? If its such a natural thing to do, then why are so many that are doing it getting so sick and dying from it?

well?

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#331 Jan 21, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course the Bible addresses the issue of homosexuality directly in a number of places and in every instance it is condemned. It is a serious sin to engage in.
Even nature is against the practice of homosexuality. Man is not designed to have same sex and the consequences for those who engage in it is deadly. So why do it?
You are a bearer of false witness and a blasphemer.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#332 Jan 21, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
It is a pretend kind of thing even if the law approves of it. Help me out. How is it possible for a man to be a wife? How is it possible for a man to be a mommy?
BTW- there is no such thing as "safe sex". Just look at the stats on STD's and abortions and tell me how safe this is. There is always going to be these problems and there will never be a total cure. Even now those who are lucky enough to afford these drugs are not even close to being 100% healthy.
It is not pretend at all. I'm in it, remember? I'm not pretending.

It is you who have the issue here. It is you who cannot comprehend for some reason what most straight people have no problem comprehending after it is explained to them once.

...which makes your motives very suspect.

I just told you neither of us are wives, and you ask me how can a man be a wife. Were you not paying attention? Are you just intent on wasting my time?

There are no wives in a gay male marriage. There are two husbands. Just as in a heterosexual marriage, where the words "husband" and "wife" are interchangeable with the word "spouse," so it is in our marriage. We are both husbands (because we are both male.) We are both spouses.

I'll make it simpler for you. A male spouse is also known as a husband. A female spouse is also known as a wife.

No matter whether they are straight or gay, that rule holds fast. Male = husband. Female = wife.

We are two husbands. Yet somehow (that was a sarcastic "somehow") we managed to figure out how to divide up the household chores and so forth. And no, neither of us does all of the stereotypical female things. We each do different things. As usual, I find myself thinking, "I can't believe I'm having this conversation. I can't believe I have to explain this."

What is so hard for you to imagine, I can't imagine.

But you don't have to imagine anything. You don't have to understand. It's not your problem. You just have to ackowledge that people in this country are different from you and have the right to live as they see fit, and to every opportunity you and everyone else has. I don't understand people like you. I think perhaps it would be best if you didn't have children. But I don't cross the line and try to interfere in your life. I allow for the fact that this is America and we are all free, and I don't have to understand you, or Dr. Laura, or drug addicts, or Satan worshippers - but they all have the same rights as I.

Most can afford the drugs just fine. There's insurance, and there are loads of non-profits who specialize in helping HIV/AIDS patience. I donate to them all the time. And yes, they are not only so close to healthy, but they are so close that you would not know they were sick unless they told you. That is not conjecture. That is firsthand knowledge from close friends of mine.

And yes, there is safe sex. If a gay man decides, "I will not get HIV" then he won't. It's that simple. You just don't cross certain lines. And you reduce your chances of getting it to virtually zero. That's how I lived my life, and I'm fine.

You make it sound like every sexual partner has AIDS. And you know what, that's easy to avoid as well. When you know you have to be careful because your partner is infected, you can never get infected unless there is a bizarre accident. I know people married 12 years, one is positive the other isn't, and never will be.
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#333 Jan 21, 2013
Troth for Leogere wrote:
<quoted text>Help me out. If HETERO sex is so healthy why is it that so many that engage in it get very sick from it? If its such a natural thing to do, then why are so many that are doing it getting so sick and dying from it?
well?
They should stop also. Why do something that causes so many many problems?

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#334 Jan 21, 2013
Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
You are a bearer of false witness and a blasphemer.
He doesn't have the brains for it. He's just an addlepated dolt.

“ ILKS r kewl ”

Since: Apr 09

Conch republic

#336 Jan 21, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
They should stop also. Why do something that causes so many many problems?
Shoulda stopped before you were conceived! woulda saved the world from nuts like you!

“ ILKS r kewl ”

Since: Apr 09

Conch republic

#337 Jan 21, 2013
TurnKey wrote:
<quoted text>
You've got it mixed up, queer, you're referring to homosexuals.
Nope.. definitely you.. turd for breath.

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