The Gay Awakening

The Gay Awakening

There are 475 comments on the The American Prospect story from Nov 18, 2013, titled The Gay Awakening. In it, The American Prospect reports that:

Supporters of same-sex marriage outside Camp Innnabah, the Methodist retreat center where Rev.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The American Prospect.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#270 Dec 31, 2013
The_Box wrote:
... The Bible undeniably endorses slavery. God specifically tells the Hebrews to go ahead and practice it. That is an endorsement.
The Bible "undeniably endorses slavery" while the man who wrote most of the New Testament actually freed a friend's slave?

See above.

“Equality First”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#271 Dec 31, 2013
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
The Bible "undeniably endorses slavery" while the man who wrote most of the New Testament actually freed a friend's slave?
See above.
Where did Paul get the authority to free another man's slave?

And by the way, you should know as well as anyone that your bible is full of contradictions. You all can argue this issue all you want, and both sides will come up with passages that they think will prove their personal view. No one will win. In the end, there is no proof of what some imaginary god thinks, approves of, or disapproves of. It's all conjecture, and has nothing whatever to do with the real world.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#272 Dec 31, 2013
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
The Bible "undeniably endorses slavery" while the man who wrote most of the New Testament actually freed a friend's slave?
Paul didn't free a slave; he returned him to his owner. He did ask the owner to stop viewing him as someone beneath him, but that's not the same.

In any event, that letter does not nullify the OT's explicit endorsement of slavery, which you are so keen on pretending does not exist.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#273 Dec 31, 2013
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Did YOU not understand this point?
"Perhaps the reason he was separated from you for a little while was that you might have him back forever — no longer as a slave" means just that: no one's slave, not Paul's and not Philemon's.
Paul had also redeemed any loss Onesimus caused Philemon to Paul's own account (v. 18).
Welcome to the New Testament -- the other half of the Bible.
Distortion.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#274 Jan 1, 2014
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
Paul didn't free a slave; he returned him to his owner ...
"Perhaps the reason he was separated from you for a little while was that you might have him back forever — no longer as a slave" means just that: no one's slave, not Paul's and not Philemon's.

Paul had also redeemed any loss Onesimus caused Philemon to Paul's own account (v. 18).

Welcome to the New Testament -- the other half of the Bible.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#275 Jan 1, 2014
RalphB wrote:
<quoted text>
Where did Paul get the authority to free another man's slave?...
Pau's an apostle, but why don't you just READ the entire LETTER, esp. verses 8-10, 17-20.

Paul's letter to Philemon is only one chapter long: one of the shortest letters in the entire New Testament.

Philemon 1:1-25

New International Version (NIV)

1 Paul, a prisoner of Christ Jesus, and Timothy our brother,

To Philemon our dear friend and fellow worker— 2 also to Apphia our sister and Archippus our fellow soldier—and to the church that meets in your home:

3 Grace and peace to you[a] from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Thanksgiving and Prayer

4 I always thank my God as I remember you in my prayers, 5 because I hear about your love for all his holy people and your faith in the Lord Jesus. 6 I pray that your partnership with us in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every good thing we share for the sake of Christ. 7 Your love has given me great joy and encouragement, because you, brother, have refreshed the hearts of the Lord’s people.

Paul’s Plea for Onesimus

8 Therefore, although in Christ I could be bold and order you to do what you ought to do, 9 yet I prefer to appeal to you on the basis of love. It is as none other than Paul—an old man and now also a prisoner of Christ Jesus— 10 that I appeal to you for my son Onesimus,[b] who became my son while I was in chains. 11 Formerly he was useless to you, but now he has become useful both to you and to me.

12 I am sending him—who is my very heart—back to you. 13 I would have liked to keep him with me so that he could take your place in helping me while I am in chains for the gospel. 14 But I did not want to do anything without your consent, so that any favor you do would not seem forced but would be voluntary. 15 Perhaps the reason he was separated from you for a little while was that you might have him back forever— 16 no longer as a slave, but better than a slave, as a dear brother. He is very dear to me but even dearer to you, both as a fellow man and as a brother in the Lord.

17 So if you consider me a partner, welcome him as you would welcome me. 18 If he has done you any wrong or owes you anything, charge it to me. 19 I, Paul, am writing this with my own hand. I will pay it back—not to mention that you owe me your very self. 20 I do wish, brother, that I may have some benefit from you in the Lord; refresh my heart in Christ. 21 Confident of your obedience, I write to you, knowing that you will do even more than I ask.

22 And one thing more: Prepare a guest room for me, because I hope to be restored to you in answer to your prayers.

23 Epaphras, my fellow prisoner in Christ Jesus, sends you greetings. 24 And so do Mark, Aristarchus, Demas and Luke, my fellow workers.

25 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#276 Jan 1, 2014
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Welcome to the New Testament -- the other half of the Bible.
Joe, even if Jesus explicitly said "Slavery is immoral. Do not practice it.", the best case for your religion would be that your god contradicted himself on the issue of slavery.

But he didn't say that. Judaism supports slavery. And Christianity doesn't change that.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#277 Jan 1, 2014
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Pau's an apostle, but why don't you just READ the entire LETTER, esp. verses 8-10, 17-20.
Paul's letter to Philemon is only one chapter long: one of the shortest letters in the entire New Testament.
Philemon 1:1-25
New International Version (NIV)
1 Paul, a prisoner of Christ Jesus, and Timothy our brother,
To Philemon our dear friend and fellow worker— 2 also to Apphia our sister and Archippus our fellow soldier—and to the church that meets in your home:
3 Grace and peace to you[a] from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Thanksgiving and Prayer
4 I always thank my God as I remember you in my prayers, 5 because I hear about your love for all his holy people and your faith in the Lord Jesus. 6 I pray that your partnership with us in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every good thing we share for the sake of Christ. 7 Your love has given me great joy and encouragement, because you, brother, have refreshed the hearts of the Lord’s people.
Paul’s Plea for Onesimus
8 Therefore, although in Christ I could be bold and order you to do what you ought to do, 9 yet I prefer to appeal to you on the basis of love. It is as none other than Paul—an old man and now also a prisoner of Christ Jesus— 10 that I appeal to you for my son Onesimus,[b] who became my son while I was in chains. 11 Formerly he was useless to you, but now he has become useful both to you and to me.
12 I am sending him—who is my very heart—back to you. 13 I would have liked to keep him with me so that he could take your place in helping me while I am in chains for the gospel. 14 But I did not want to do anything without your consent, so that any favor you do would not seem forced but would be voluntary. 15 Perhaps the reason he was separated from you for a little while was that you might have him back forever— 16 no longer as a slave, but better than a slave, as a dear brother. He is very dear to me but even dearer to you, both as a fellow man and as a brother in the Lord.
17 So if you consider me a partner, welcome him as you would welcome me. 18 If he has done you any wrong or owes you anything, charge it to me. 19 I, Paul, am writing this with my own hand. I will pay it back—not to mention that you owe me your very self. 20 I do wish, brother, that I may have some benefit from you in the Lord; refresh my heart in Christ. 21 Confident of your obedience, I write to you, knowing that you will do even more than I ask.
22 And one thing more: Prepare a guest room for me, because I hope to be restored to you in answer to your prayers.
23 Epaphras, my fellow prisoner in Christ Jesus, sends you greetings. 24 And so do Mark, Aristarchus, Demas and Luke, my fellow workers.
25 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.
Only Saul himself, or one of his followers, ever said he was an "apostle".

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#278 Jan 1, 2014
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Pau's an apostle, but why don't you just READ the entire LETTER, esp. verses 8-10, 17-20.
Paul's letter to Philemon is only one chapter long: one of the shortest letters in the entire
14 But I did not want to do anything without your consent, so that any favor you do would not seem forced but would be voluntary.

You were saying?

Paul did not and could not emancipate Onesimus from his servitude to Philemon. He set him spiritually free but had to return him to his owner for anything more. Paul doesn't denounce slavery or ask that Philemon emancipate any other servants he might have. Paul is not and was not an abolitionist, no matter how much you torture his writings.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#279 Jan 2, 2014
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>14 But I did not want to do anything without your consent, so that any favor you do would not seem forced but would be voluntary.
You were saying?...
Not me, but Paul, or can't you tell the difference between us?

8 Therefore, although in Christ I could be bold and order you to do what you ought to do, 9 yet I prefer to appeal to you on the basis of LOVE. It is as none other than Paul—an old man and now also a prisoner of Christ Jesus ...

And if you don't know what love is, Paul said it was patient and kind and didn't display itself haughtily (1 Corinthians 13:4).
Rainbow Kid

Alpharetta, GA

#280 Jan 2, 2014
Joe DeCaro wrote:
Not me, but Paul, or can't you tell the difference between us?
No
.
You're both sort of trippy

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#281 Jan 2, 2014
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
"Perhaps the reason he was separated from you for a little while was that you might have him back forever — no longer as a slave" means just that: no one's slave, not Paul's and not Philemon's.
Paul had also redeemed any loss Onesimus caused Philemon to Paul's own account (v. 18).
Welcome to the New Testament -- the other half of the Bible.
Distortion.

“=”

Since: Oct 07

Appleton WI

#282 Jan 2, 2014
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Did YOU not understand this point?
"Perhaps the reason he was separated from you for a little while was that you might have him back forever — no longer as a slave" means just that: no one's slave, not Paul's and not Philemon's.
Paul had also redeemed any loss Onesimus caused Philemon to Paul's own account (v. 18).
Welcome to the New Testament -- the other half of the Bible.
I think you're confused, if not deliberately deflecting again. This is an argument you're having with someone else, not me. I'm making the general statement that the bible endorses slavery by regulating it and never condemning or prohibiting it. I've not said anything about this particular part of the bible, as it is irrelevant and really off-topic.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#283 Jan 3, 2014
Tre H wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you're confused ...
I think you're projecting, if not deliberately deflecting.
Again.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#284 Jan 3, 2014
Tre H wrote:
I'm making the general statement that the bible endorses slavery by regulating it ...
Then according to your "logic" since the Geneva Convention(s) regulates the way war is waged it also endorses war?

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#285 Jan 3, 2014
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Then according to your "logic" since the Geneva Convention(s) regulates the way war is waged it also endorses war?
YES

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#287 Jan 4, 2014
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Not me, but Paul, or can't you tell the difference between us?
8 Therefore, although in Christ I could be bold and order you to do what you ought to do, 9 yet I prefer to appeal to you on the basis of LOVE. It is as none other than Paul—an old man and now also a prisoner of Christ Jesus ...
And if you don't know what love is, Paul said it was patient and kind and didn't display itself haughtily (1 Corinthians 13:4).
Paul is saying that you are not even able to fake having a clue as to what he was clearly saying to Philemon. But he knows better than to stand in the way of your choice of beliefs, doesn't he?

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#288 Jan 5, 2014
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>Paul is saying that you are not even able to fake having a clue as to what he was clearly saying to Philemon ...
You got the above from this plea by Paul to Philemon?

8 Therefore, although in Christ I could be bold and order you to do what you ought to do, 9 yet I prefer to appeal to you on the basis of LOVE. It is as none other than Paul—an old man and now also a prisoner of Christ Jesus ...

I don't think you have a clue.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#289 Jan 5, 2014
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
You got the above from this plea by Paul to Philemon?
8 Therefore, although in Christ I could be bold and order you to do what you ought to do, 9 yet I prefer to appeal to you on the basis of LOVE. It is as none other than Paul—an old man and now also a prisoner of Christ Jesus ...
I don't think you have a clue.
LOL!!!.... Maybe he could. But, he didn't.

"Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's...."

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#290 Jan 6, 2014
Joe DeCaro wrote:
You got the above from this plea by Paul to Philemon?
8 Therefore, although in Christ I could be bold and order you to do what you ought to do, 9 yet I prefer to appeal to you on the basis of LOVE. It is as none other than Paul—an old man and now also a prisoner of Christ Jesus ...
I don't think you have a clue.
I know you don't think, whether it is that I don't have a clue, or about much of anything else. It's the only possible explanation for 90% of your posts. Like this one. Paul is still no abolitionist, no matter how badly you torture his words. Sorry.

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