What if God absolutely truly does exist?
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“Religion is Superstition”

Since: Aug 08

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#688 Feb 2, 2009
We don't have any evidence that anything interfered either. I see no reason to accept that something poofed the universe into existance without evidence that it happened that way. Likewise, the universe could have been poofed into existance the Tuesday before last, with all of our memories suggesting that it did not already in place. Once again, there is no evidence that this is the case either.

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Since: Jul 08

United States

#689 Feb 2, 2009
Christopher Pearsoll wrote:
We don't have any evidence that anything interfered either. I see no reason to accept that something poofed the universe into existance without evidence that it happened that way. Likewise, the universe could have been poofed into existance the Tuesday before last, with all of our memories suggesting that it did not already in place. Once again, there is no evidence that this is the case either.
Either way is equally plausible, so half the time you should be pondering;

1. Either there's an infinite number of universes --- or ours is the only one. How many universes are there, 42? Since our universe is less than 14 billion years old and nothing we currently see will cause it to re-collapse and return to its original dimensionless condition for countless quadrillions of years, many other universes would be statistically much older than ours because of their potential lifespans.

2. Older universes all around us? Maybe they had something to do with our conditions in this universe or maybe all universes are like ours, or maybe ours is incredibly rare. Keep an open mind in our ignorance.

“Religion is Superstition”

Since: Aug 08

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#690 Feb 2, 2009
Option 1 or 2, doesn't matter because there's no way to measure or even quantify the effects neighboring universes might have on this one.

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Since: Jul 08

United States

#691 Feb 2, 2009
Christopher Pearsoll wrote:
Option 1 or 2, doesn't matter because there's no way to measure or even quantify the effects neighboring universes might have on this one.
Doesn't matter? Our universe was either artificially caused or it wasn't. We see and measure the 'effects' all around us --if it's one scenario or the other.

Our universe's expansionary acceleration began to wane 5 billion years ago. We don't know enough to wonder if that was planned or not. We might never know. But we know from the calculations that if the expansion had been slightly faster, no galaxies would ever have formed.

“Maccullochella macquariensis”

Since: May 08

Melbourne, Australia

#692 Feb 3, 2009
jerb1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Doesn't matter? Our universe was either artificially caused or it wasn't. We see and measure the 'effects' all around us --if it's one scenario or the other.
Our universe's expansionary acceleration began to wane 5 billion years ago. We don't know enough to wonder if that was planned or not. We might never know. But we know from the calculations that if the expansion had been slightly faster, no galaxies would ever have formed.
Yep. That proves it. 100% certifiable fruitcake.

Level 1

Since: Nov 08

Boise, ID

#693 Feb 3, 2009
jerb1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Now your mind's open. hehe Our whole universe could end any second as they toss us into the incinerator, depending upon how powerful they are.
But you're making my point. Only the inhabitants of universes who dare to ask these questions will have any chance of defending themselves against the whims of their overlords. The Aztecs didn't imagine that other people would come, who it turns out they could have easily defeated, because they didn't think outside the box. We think we're safe within a natural universe as long as we survive ourselves and natural disasters.
Not that Dr. House of TV fame is the paragon of wisdom, but there is one point that the show makes which is applicable here. When they are diagnosing a patient they opt for the diagnosis that can be cured if they have to choose between several diagnoses. This is a very pragmatic idea. The same applies for science. Science opts for a universe that is both rational and can be investigated. Science opts for a universe that has answers, or to use the analogy a universe that can be cured. Whether or not this is true is outside of science given that fantasy is thrown out in preference for pragmatism.

Can science determine that our universe was magically poofed into being last Tuesday, complete with false memories and a false history? Nope, sure can't. Can science determine how universes are produced through rational and testable mechanisms? That is very possible. Science opts for the latter.

Level 1

Since: Jul 08

United States

#694 Feb 3, 2009
Bluenose wrote:
<quoted text>
Yep. That proves it. 100% certifiable fruitcake.
Which part? You think this is my field?

Level 1

Since: Jul 08

United States

#695 Feb 3, 2009
Erasmus05 wrote:
<quoted text>
Not that Dr. House of TV fame is the paragon of wisdom, but there is one point that the show makes which is applicable here. When they are diagnosing a patient they opt for the diagnosis that can be cured if they have to choose between several diagnoses. This is a very pragmatic idea. The same applies for science. Science opts for a universe that is both rational and can be investigated. Science opts for a universe that has answers, or to use the analogy a universe that can be cured. Whether or not this is true is outside of science given that fantasy is thrown out in preference for pragmatism.
Can science determine that our universe was magically poofed into being last Tuesday, complete with false memories and a false history? Nope, sure can't. Can science determine how universes are produced through rational and testable mechanisms? That is very possible. Science opts for the latter.
You do know that we're currently able to investigate NO scenario for the formation of our universe from its original dimensionless point. Science is presently stuck with this, so what are you saying?

Level 1

Since: Nov 08

Boise, ID

#696 Feb 3, 2009
jerb1 wrote:
<quoted text>
You do know that we're currently able to investigate NO scenario for the formation of our universe from its original dimensionless point. Science is presently stuck with this, so what are you saying?
Currently able? No. In the future? Who knows. Some of the answers could be found in experiments at the LHC. We could still find answers in investigating astronomical events.

I am nothing more than an armchair physicist, but from my reading some String theorists are claiming that some parts of the theory can be tested at the LHC once it is up and running. That's exciting. Even if String theory turns out to be wrong it is still a step closer to an answer.

However, I see no reason to assume that there is no detectable answer out there from the very start. Such an attitude flies in the face of 200 years of scientific progress. At the beginning of the 20th century physicists were bemoaning the end of theoretical physics. They believed that there were only a few answers that Newtonian physics had not discovered, and those would be discovered quite quickly. Undergrads were actually told not to go into physics research because before long there would be nothing left to study. Then along came Quantum physics and completely rewrote the science books.

We are again hitting the limits of the this model as well. In one book I read (Dreams of a Final Theory by Stephen Weinberg if memory serves) the author was bemoaning the fact that the newest presentations at scientific conferences focused on accurately determining the accuracy of physical constants to the 12th decimal place. This is what constitutes cutting edge research in Quantum mechanics. Physics is stuck in a rut, but that might change very soon just as it changed in the early 20th century.

Will it be String theory and it's big brother M theory? Who knows. They are certainly compelling from a mathematical viewpoint, but they have yet to be tested in any meaningful way. Could the LHC provide proof of extra dimensions, the origin of dark matter, or even the origin of dark energy? Maybe. The only way to find out is to try. Or we can take the self-defeating attitude that such things are unknowable and never try. I prefer the former, not the latter.

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