Skull Valley lawmaker wants both sides of climate change taught to students

Feb 5, 2013 Full story: Verde Independent 1,644

Saying students are getting only one side of the debate, a state senator wants to free teachers to tell students why they believe there is no such thing human-caused "global warming.' The proposal by Sen.

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Level 6

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#662 Mar 23, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
Has any experiment shown man can stop rain, steer a storm or mitigated global climate? If not, climate change mitigation is a hoax.
When both theory and observation support that doing a particular thing is causing a change, then not doing more of it is logically going to mitigate the change, all else being equal.

What part of this straightforward logic do you find faulty?

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

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#663 Mar 23, 2013
There's never been observations of successful climate change mitigation; observation tells us climate change mitigation is a hoax. What part of observed fact do you find at fault?
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#664 Mar 23, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
Great Britain has always had lots of rain; this is nothing new.
Great Britain is known for having a lot of FOG. It is not known for having that much rain (with some exception in areas such as Cornwall).

Their has been a sigificant change in both temperature and precipitation pattern since 1960.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/media/pdf/q/h/UK_...

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

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#665 Mar 23, 2013
Liverpool Rain Lyrics
by Racoon

Stuck in a van
As far away as I possibly can
Stuck in a mood
So far away that it couldn't be good
My back hurts and it rains
Screw England, screw the young and insane
We travel in vain, but the dreams are the same

But look at the heroes in the Liverpool rain
I'll stick by you forever
You didn't do it in vain
You travel the houses, soothing the pain
Putting a smile on my face once again
So look at the heroes in the Liverpool rain...

Puressence London In The Rain Lyrics
Send "London In The Rain" Ringtone to your Cell
There's nothing like London in the rain,
There's nothing like falling from a moving train,

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

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#666 Mar 23, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
There's never been observations of successful climate change mitigation; observation tells us climate change mitigation is a hoax. What part of observed fact do you find at fault?
No, even by the most rigorous standards of skepticism, climate change mitigation would not be regarded as a hoax.

At best it could be regarded as a premature conclusion, by the most die-hard such as you.

It is not a hoax to hypothesise, strongly, that if an activity causes a change, now supported by both theory and observation, that ceasing that activity is likely to mitigate further change.

That is just a normal extrapolation of observation and theory.

Unless you are actually denying the scientific theory of greenhouse gases, and denying the observed changes already recorded, you are talking rubbish and yo know it.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

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#667 Mar 24, 2013
Belief in climate change mitigation is based on pure theory, not experimental science. There's no demonstration, test or trial that shows man can change or mitigate climate change.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

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#669 Mar 26, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
No, even by the most rigorous standards of skepticism, climate change mitigation would not be regarded as a hoax. At best it could be regarded as a premature conclusion, by the most die-hard such as you. It is not a hoax to hypothesise, strongly, that if an activity causes a change, now supported by both theory and observation, that ceasing that activity is likely to mitigate further change. That is just a normal extrapolation of observation and theory. Unless you are actually denying the scientific theory of greenhouse gases, and denying the observed changes already recorded, you are talking rubbish and yo know it.
Coincidence isn't causality. Any climate scientist who makes the claim we must restrict greenhouse gas emissions or invest in his CO2 sequestration technology to save the world from catastrophic man made global warming, is a hoaxer. It isn't merely a "premature conclusion", it changes taxes and redirects our economies based on pseudoscience, to profit big government and the left. Climate change mitigation is an untested prototype, without any experimental verification it can do even the least bit of good.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

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#670 Mar 26, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
...Although the rise in average temperatures in lock step with CO2 over the last 150 years can also be ignored? Consider it a real time experiment. Funny how you don't want to waste a few billion on "untested" innovation but seem happy that your government has wasted 2 trillion on unsuccessful social engineering experiments with Muslims, not to mention the lives of many brave soldiers.
Wars and the history of the past 150 years aren't an experiment. Experiments are planned, orderly, intended and controlled.

Most alarmists believe because they don't understand science. I cite Chimney's post above as proof of ignorance of the scientific method.

I'm glad the state's senate wants critical thinking taught in science class. Children need to learn the difference between real experiments and hoaxes.

“There is no such thing”

Level 3

Since: May 08

as a reasonable person

#671 Mar 26, 2013
I have a hard time believing that the world is changing. I mean, hasn't it always been this way since the dawn of time?

Level 6

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#672 Mar 26, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Coincidence isn't causality. Any climate scientist who makes the claim we must restrict greenhouse gas emissions or invest in his CO2 sequestration technology to save the world from catastrophic man made global warming, is a hoaxer.
Yes Brian. A good little scientist should stay in his box and merely report that there is an observed correlation already between CO2 levels and temperature rise, and that we have scientific theories that provide a causative link and that in fact the observed correlation was predicted a century ago by those theories which have in fact been further refined and corroborated since Arrhenius...

But, no, scientists are not like everyone else. No way should they be allowed to express and opinion on policy. In fact, scientific credentials should specifically bar anyone from suggesting policy, especially on matters relating to scientific and technical matters.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#673 Mar 26, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Basically, just about any climate change short of a new ice age is going to be an improvement for Britain.
Been officially spring for a few days and it seems we are in a mini ice age now, itís hovering around zero, snow, icy wind, transport disruption, power outages. Every month from April to January the UK had a major flooding with 100 to 200 flood warnings/alerts per month.

But hey, February was OK

This time last year people were picnicking in parks.

These are the results of climate change.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#674 Mar 26, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Chris is saying it often rains in Great Britain now; and that's unusual how?
Donít be such a pathetic pillock all your life, I was talking of extreme flooding that cost millions of pounds in damage infrastructure disruption and peoples lives. Notice that I said ďmajor flooding somewhere in the UKĒ

But of course if you want to be flippant then feel free to mock such death if it suites your failing cause

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#675 Mar 26, 2013
Lil Ticked wrote:
I have a hard time believing that the world is changing. I mean, hasn't it always been this way since the dawn of time?
No

http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
Dont drink the koolaid

Minneapolis, MN

#676 Mar 26, 2013
sickofit wrote:
Just teach the truth which is GLOBAL WARMING IS REAL..........Why teach a lie....
So, AGW is real and the 'truth' is that Man's CO2 is the cause of Minnesota's unusual Spring temps and the blanket of snow the United States is currently under - as predicted by The AGW Experts.

Clearly, if Man does not get serious about reducing the CO2 in the atmosphere this Global Warming thing just may result in major snow storms canceling our 4th of July celebrations.

Removing 48 CO2 molecules per 1,000,000 from the air should be enough climate engineering to save America's Independence Day celebrations!

Well... that was simple.
Earth's Climate isn't all that complex after all!

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#677 Mar 26, 2013
Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
<quoted text>
So, AGW is real and the 'truth' is that Man's CO2 is the cause of Minnesota's unusual Spring temps and the blanket of snow the United States is currently under - as predicted by The AGW Experts.
Clearly, if Man does not get serious about reducing the CO2 in the atmosphere this Global Warming thing just may result in major snow storms canceling our 4th of July celebrations.
Removing 48 CO2 molecules per 1,000,000 from the air should be enough climate engineering to save America's Independence Day celebrations!
Well... that was simple.
Earth's Climate isn't all that complex after all!
What is unusual about Minnesota's spring? It looks a bit warmer than it was when I lived there but that was almost thirty years ago. Snow used to last until about halfway through April. "Spring" was a very short season when I grew up there. What passed for spring lasted 4 to 6 weeks and then we were into summer.

What is it like there now, and I am speaking of the Minneapolis area in specific.

I see that you are from Minneapolis, have you ever had breakfast at Al's Breakfast? I miss their hash browns.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

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#678 Mar 26, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
Yes Brian. A good little scientist should stay in his box and merely report that there is an observed correlation already between CO2 levels and temperature rise, and that we have scientific theories that provide a causative link and that in fact the observed correlation was predicted a century ago by those theories which have in fact been further refined and corroborated since Arrhenius...
But, no, scientists are not like everyone else. No way should they be allowed to express and opinion on policy. In fact, scientific credentials should specifically bar anyone from suggesting policy, especially on matters relating to scientific and technical matters.
I never said scientists shouldn't express their opinions, I said their job is to produce experimental evidence. In that sense, climate change mitigation science is a dismal failure with a zero score.

I'm saying I won't pay carbon tax and live with increasing CO2 levels since we can't stop and won't stop it in the first place.

CO2, why worry? Don't let those mean politicians out for votes and contributions deciding the path, you decide. Make your own climate or move to one you prefer. Think outside the box.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

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#679 Mar 26, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
Been officially spring for a few days and it seems we are in a mini ice age now, itís hovering around zero, snow, icy wind, transport disruption, power outages. Every month from April to January the UK had a major flooding with 100 to 200 flood warnings/alerts per month. But hey, February was OK This time last year people were picnicking in parks. These are the results of climate change.
Exactly, but not man made climate change. Think about it, man made climate change means more extreme weather of all kinds, cold as well as hot. That means, more absolutely extreme beautiful weather too, look forward to summer. I know early spring is cold, I feel for you.

Don't panic and those TV commercials for politicians promising better climate through new taxes and government spending have an agenda with little in common to your well being. Be a little skeptical, please. Everyone in a white lab coat isn't the good guy.

Grow up.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#680 Mar 26, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
What is unusual about Minnesota's spring? It looks a bit warmer than it was when I lived there but that was almost thirty years ago. Snow used to last until about halfway through April. "Spring" was a very short season when I grew up there. What passed for spring lasted 4 to 6 weeks and then we were into summer.
What is it like there now, and I am speaking of the Minneapolis area in specific.
I see that you are from Minneapolis, have you ever had breakfast at Al's Breakfast? I miss their hash browns.
I think the longer we live, the more we take weather events in stride. I wouldn't vote for a climate change mitigator if my life depended on it.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#681 Mar 26, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
Yes Brian. A good little scientist should stay in his box and merely report that there is an observed correlation already between CO2 levels and temperature rise, and that we have scientific theories that provide a causative link and that in fact the observed correlation was predicted a century ago by those theories which have in fact been further refined and corroborated since Arrhenius...
"A good little scientist should" conduct experimental tests and teach people where to find and how to duplicate that data. A good scientists has a compelling, demonstrable, reproducible and well explained demonstration, trial, test or experiment to disprove other explanations...

Until then, I'm going to emit as much CO2 as I want and you're not going to stop me. I can grow plants to sequester CO2 on my land and it's none of your business. Keep your carbon tax to yourself, don't like carbon, don't burn it.

.
Chimney1 wrote:
But, no, scientists are not like everyone else. No way should they be allowed to express and opinion on policy. In fact, scientific credentials should specifically bar anyone from suggesting policy, especially on matters relating to scientific and technical matters.
I'd like to hear scientists argue, it would make a nice change from Topix norms.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#682 Mar 26, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>.. don't like carbon, don't burn it..
We like our humanity more than the climate-changing GHGs.

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