Skull Valley lawmaker wants both sides of climate change taught to students

Feb 5, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Verde Independent

Saying students are getting only one side of the debate, a state senator wants to free teachers to tell students why they believe there is no such thing human-caused "global warming.' The proposal by Sen.

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“CAPS LOCK CAUSE CLIMATE CHANGE”

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#639
Mar 21, 2013
 

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litesong wrote:
Unlike dirtling, who never got a hi skule DEE-plooomaa,'brian_g stumble butt dumpster diver' did get a poorly earned hi skule DEE-plooomaa(which it is very proud of).'brian_g stumble butt dumpster diver' never took upper class science, chemistry, astronomy, physics, algebra or pre-calc & never got any further science or mathematics education......which accounts for its poor math attempts, compiled in errors of 1 million TIMES, 1000 TIMES, 3000 TIMES & 73 million TIMES.'brian_g stumble butt dumpster diver' has not attempted further math calculations in 1 to 1.5 years.
^^^Ad hominem arguments are fallacies. They don't want children taught critical thinking because they rely on irrational arguments and appeals to emotion.
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#640
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Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>^^^Ad hominem arguments are fallacies. They don't want children taught critical thinking because they rely on irrational arguments and appeals to emotion.
This argument is itself a logical fallacy.

Post idiocy, expect to get called an idiot: logic.

Post idiocy and demand a polite debate: illogical.

“CAPS LOCK CAUSE CLIMATE CHANGE”

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Fair Game wrote:
This argument is itself a logical fallacy. Post idiocy, expect to get called an idiot: logic. Post idiocy and demand a polite debate: illogical.
Showing an argument is illogical isn't an ad hominem argument. Calling a poster names is ad hominem argument.

See the difference?
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#642
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Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Showing an argument is illogical isn't an ad hominem argument. Calling a poster names is ad hominem argument.
See the difference?
I didn't say your arguments were illogical; I said they were idiotic.

All you do is post idiotic arguments again and again just to annoy people.

So rightly you get called a troll.

Your protests are just pearl clutching.

“I started out with nothing”

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#643
Mar 21, 2013
 

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Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>I didn't write I didn't go to school, I refused to disclose my CV. I'd recommend all posters take care when disclosing information about themselves or other people.
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<quoted text>Still, addition is different from geometric progression, as CO2 doubles, temperature increases arithmetically so it takes more CO2 emissions to create the same warming as we go along.
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<quoted text>Are you talking about feedback? If there's one area in climate science with even less experimental testing than CO2's greenhouse gas effect, that would be climate feedback.
.
<quoted text>When carbon dioxide dissolves in water it exists in chemical equilibrium producing carbonic acid
CO2 + H2O = H2CO4
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbonic_acid
"On the other hand, any doubling of the percentage of carbon dioxide in the air would raise the temperature of the earth's surface by 4į; and if the carbon dioxide were increased fourfold, the temperature would rise by 8į."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svante_Arrhenius
The fact that you went or did not god to school will reveal nothing other than your ignorance.

And there are a LOT of co2 emissions.

No I was talking about slump, you should not try and change what people say just because you donít understand, it just makes you look stupid

Yes we know this and I will repeat that H2C04 is not CO2

With the US pumping out over 5 billion tonnes a years and china and India vying for supremacy in the pollution stakes and carbon sinks either sinking or becoming saturated I donít really see your point
litesong

Lynnwood, WA

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#644
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itesong wrote:
Unlike dirtling, who never got a hi skule DEE-plooomaa,'brian_g stumble butt dumpster diver' did get a poorly earned hi skule DEE-plooomaa(which it is very proud of).'brian_g stumble butt dumpster diver' never took upper class science, chemistry, astronomy, physics, algebra or pre-calc & never got any further science or mathematics education......which accounts for its poor math attempts, compiled in errors of 1 million TIMES, 1000 TIMES, 3000 TIMES & 73 million TIMES.'brian_g stumble butt dumpster diver' has not attempted further math calculations in 1 to 1.5 years.
//////////
'brian_g stumble butt dumpster diver' flopped:
^^^Ad hominem arguments are fallacies.
//////////
litesong wrote:
Never understood why people who never integrated science, chemistry, astronomy, physics, algebra or pre-calc into their ways of thinking, thought they could make up for their lack by using their liberal arts skills(if it could be described as such).

Still existing in historic truth are accounts for the poor math attempts of 'brian_g stumble butt dumpster diver', compiled in errors of 1 million TIMES, 1000 TIMES, 3000 TIMES & 73 million TIMES.'brian_g stumble butt dumpster diver' has not attempted further math calculations in 1 to 1.5 years.

Still existing in social truth are toxic topix AGW thread "DELETES" that 'brian_g stumble butt dumpster diver' is a slimy steenking filthy vile reprobate rooting(& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AND alleged & proud threatener.
SpaceBlues

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#645
Mar 21, 2013
 
My goodness it's H2CO3, not H2CO4.
LessHypeMoreFact

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#646
Mar 21, 2013
 

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Teachers are already free to teach any subject that is in doubt. However, this is not a LEGAL issue, and the lawmakers cannot 'manufacture doubt'.

"says state and local school boards and officials cannot prohibit any teacher from helping students analyze and review the "strengths and weaknesses of existing scientific theories' being taught."

The ultimate authority on what is science and what is 'in doubt' is the National Academy of Science and they are UNEQUIVOCAL that AGW is established science, and there is no 'other side' yet strong enough (if ever) to form a 'second side'. As such, there is no 'other side' to teach.

So the only thing they can teach is MISINFORMATION. Something the US system is already doing too much.

“There is no such thing”

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#648
Mar 22, 2013
 

“CAPS LOCK CAUSE CLIMATE CHANGE”

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LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
Teachers are already free to teach any subject that is in doubt. However, this is not a LEGAL issue, and the lawmakers cannot 'manufacture doubt'.... As such, there is no 'other side' to teach. So the only thing they can teach is MISINFORMATION. Something the US system is already doing too much.
There are no experimental test of climate change mitigation; that leaves ONLY doubt. If you had an experiment that shows man made greenhouse gas emission's effect on climate or a test showing the effect and cost of climate change mitigation, there would be no doubt.

Seems perfectly reasonable to discuss the experimental record of man made climate change and climate change mitigation. Why not teach the children well?

“CAPS LOCK CAUSE CLIMATE CHANGE”

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ChristineM wrote:
...And there are a LOT of co2 emissions...With the US pumping out over 5 billion tonnes a years and china and India vying for supremacy in the pollution stakes and carbon sinks either sinking or becoming saturated I donít really see your point
There's nothing we can do to stop CO2 escaping from the oceans as they warm or to stop geological CO2 emissions from volcanoes and springs. Have you ever seen water bubbling out of a hot spring? Some of those escaping gasses are carbon dioxide.

I understand your fear of climate, it can kill you if you don't adapt. I totaled my car the day before yesterday, I hit black ice and pinballed off the guard rails. I blame my own poor driving, going too fast for conditions, not climate for the ice on the road.

Cold climate is far worse than a little warming; frost bites.

“I started out with nothing”

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Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>There's nothing we can do to stop CO2 escaping from the oceans as they warm or to stop geological CO2 emissions from volcanoes and springs. Have you ever seen water bubbling out of a hot spring? Some of those escaping gasses are carbon dioxide.
I understand your fear of climate, it can kill you if you don't adapt. I totaled my car the day before yesterday, I hit black ice and pinballed off the guard rails. I blame my own poor driving, going too fast for conditions, not climate for the ice on the road.
Cold climate is far worse than a little warming; frost bites.
This is true but there is something we can do to reduce the amount that are absorbed by the oceans. We canít stop cows farting either (yet, but science is working on it)

I have no fear of the climate, I live in the UK and so live in an unpredictable climate anyway. For example last year every month for 9 month continuously (even during high summer) there was some sort of major flooding somewhere in the UK. That was not normal, although quite regular it was unpredictable and abnormal. Today, 2nd day of spring much of the UK is undergoing snow storms and gales. The frequency of tornadoes is also increasing here as I suppose they are in the US.

It should be noted that such extremes of weather are becoming more prevalent as the climate warms.

Yes, this is also true there is no excuse for bad driving, if you want to put others lives at risk then you take the consequences for the chances you take

Unfortunately for your ill informed ideas, warming does not necessarily mean a warmer, more pleasant climate. The loss of arctic ice into the Atlantic is causing harsher, more violent weather.

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ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
This is true but there is something we can do to reduce the amount that are absorbed by the oceans. We canít stop cows farting either (yet, but science is working on it)
I have no fear of the climate, I live in the UK and so live in an unpredictable climate anyway. For example last year every month for 9 month continuously (even during high summer) there was some sort of major flooding somewhere in the UK. That was not normal, although quite regular it was unpredictable and abnormal. Today, 2nd day of spring much of the UK is undergoing snow storms and gales. The frequency of tornadoes is also increasing here as I suppose they are in the US.
It should be noted that such extremes of weather are becoming more prevalent as the climate warms.
Yes, this is also true there is no excuse for bad driving, if you want to put others lives at risk then you take the consequences for the chances you take
Unfortunately for your ill informed ideas, warming does not necessarily mean a warmer, more pleasant climate. The loss of arctic ice into the Atlantic is causing harsher, more violent weather.
Basically, just about any climate change short of a new ice age is going to be an improvement for Britain.
LessHypeMoreFact

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Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>There's nothing we can do to stop CO2 escaping from the oceans as they warm
Except that this is not a problem. The higher partial pressure of increased CO2 from industrial emissions is much stronger than the weaker solution emissions from warming. This is proven by many many studies that show that acidity is steadily increasing in the oceans as they ABSORB about half the industrial emissions produced each and every year. Along with studies of how much is emitted from industry vs the change in concentration in the air.
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>or to stop geological CO2 emissions from volcanoes and springs. Have you ever seen water bubbling out of a hot spring? Some of those escaping gasses are carbon dioxide.
And a further check is made by isotopic composition which can differentiate CO2 from combustion (old carbon deficient in C14 combined with new oxygen (relatively modern O18 composition) from geological depositories such as limestone (old carbon with old oxygen).

This clearly shows that the changes are NOT due to vulcanism or hot springs which sources are at LEAST two orders of magnitude too small to account for the data.
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>I understand your fear of climate, it can kill you if you don't adapt.
The main risk is to the economic engine which cannot absorb too much cost from changing climate regimes without stalling. You are introducing 'red herrings' and 'strawmen'. Shame on you.
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text> I totaled my car the day before yesterday, I hit black ice and pinballed off the guard rails. I blame my own poor driving, going too fast for conditions, not climate for the ice on the road.
I blame you as well, since I have hit treacherous road conditons many times and have never had a serious accident from them. They are there. Obvious to anyone with a brain. It is probably the same 'blindness' that you show on the issue of AGW. You just don't see things that are right before you.
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text> Cold climate is far worse than a little warming; frost bites.
False. And obviously false. It is easier to adapt to -40C than to +40C. Layered clothing was adopted by the Innuit and they survived quite well over 10,000 years ago, without complicated technology.

While we need expensive and high maintenance cooling units (along with massive energy inputs) to survive +40C weather.

Just another example of your mindless 'red herrings'.

“CAPS LOCK CAUSE CLIMATE CHANGE”

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ChristineM wrote:
... I live in the UK and so live in an unpredictable climate anyway. For example last year every month for 9 month continuously (even during high summer) there was some sort of major flooding somewhere in the UK. That was not normal, although quite regular it was unpredictable and abnormal...
Chris is saying it often rains in Great Britain now; and that's unusual how?
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Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Chris is saying it often rains in Great Britain now; and that's unusual how?
"It's been the year when flooding became relevant to every part of the country. From the south-west to the north-east, every part of the country got hit," says Charles Tucker, chairman of the National Flood Forum, which represents more than 200 local community groups. "Flooding can now strike anywhere, and it needs to be recognised as the No 1 national emergency happening now."

The deluges that made 2012 England's wettest on record left persistently sodden ground: fresh downpours caused rapid run-off and flash flooding in places once thought to be safe. In June, the forum helped people in West Sussex after homes were flooded. "They were absolutely shocked Ė they are a community that had never been flooded before," said Tucker.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/ja...
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England has endured its wettest year since records began with more rain on its way before the year is out, forecasters said today.

More than 1,000mm of rain has fallen over the past 12 months, making 2012 the wettest in more than 100 years.

The UK as a whole is expected to set a new record, with just 46mm needed between now and New Yearís Day, according to provisional Met Office figures.

ĎIt has now been the wettest year in England since records began in 1910 and there is more rain to come,í said a Met office spokesman.

http://metro.co.uk/2012/12/27/severe-floods-h...
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Britain faces increasingly extreme weather conditions and urgently needs to improve its anti-flood defences and preparations for severe drought, says the Environment Agency.

Its stark conclusion follows detailed analysis of weather patterns, river levels and flooding events in 2012, which revealed that some areas suffered record levels of drought before facing some of the worst flooding ever.

Last year, flooding was recorded on 20% of days and drought on 25% of days, with rivers such as the Tyne, Ouse and Tone going from their record lowest flows to record highest in four months.

"It was an extraordinary year and it serves as a warning for the country that we face a future in which there are likely to be more and more extreme weather events," said Lord (Chris) Smith, the agency's chairman. "We need, very urgently, to prepare plans to deal with these extremes."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/mar/02/brit...
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Brian_G trolls Topix year after year.

Meanwhile, in the real world, people are recognizing the effects of global warming and realizing that they will have to deal with them.
litesong

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brian_g stumble butt dumpster diver wrote:
I totaled my car the day before yesterday, I hit black ice and pinballed off the guard rails. I blame my own poor driving.....
However, thinking aforethought should have 'mitigated' your future(now past) conduct.
Thinking aforethought, by engineers, possibly gave you extra protection that you did not deserve.

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