Skull Valley lawmaker wants both sides of climate change taught to students

Feb 5, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Verde Independent

Saying students are getting only one side of the debate, a state senator wants to free teachers to tell students why they believe there is no such thing human-caused "global warming.' The proposal by Sen.

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#478
Mar 5, 2013
 
Shubee wrote:
<quoted text>Quantum theory is the physics of things that happen for no reason whatsoever. How is that not supernatural?
Seems like the laws of nature, not supernaturla, doesn't it?
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#479
Mar 5, 2013
 

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woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>Seems like the laws of nature, not supernaturla, doesn't it?
Not exactly. For a law to say that nature acts unpredictably clearly fits the definition of supernatural.

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#480
Mar 5, 2013
 
Shubee wrote:
<quoted text>Not exactly. For a law to say that nature acts unpredictably clearly fits the definition of supernatural.
nature is supernatural? surely you jest.
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#481
Mar 5, 2013
 

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woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>nature is supernatural? surely you jest.
I didn't say that nature is supernatural. But I am on record saying that spontaneous quantum creationism is so mainstream in modern physics that it is now even acknowledged to be real science in the popular culture.
everythingimportant.org/naturalism/

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#482
Mar 5, 2013
 

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Shubee wrote:
<quoted text>I didn't say that nature is supernatural. But I am on record saying that spontaneous quantum creationism is so mainstream in modern physics that it is now even acknowledged to be real science in the popular culture.
everythingimportant.org/naturalism/
yes you, in fact did say that...
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#483
Mar 5, 2013
 

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I stand behind this quote:

Conclusion: Quantum theory has an obvious supernatural interpretation and no interpretations consistent with naturalism.

The World English Dictionary
supernatural
— adj
1. of or relating to things that cannot be explained according to natural laws
2. characteristic of or caused by or as if by a god; miraculous
3. of, involving, or ascribed to occult beings
4. exceeding the ordinary; abnormal

Since: Mar 11

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#484
Mar 5, 2013
 
Shubee wrote:
I stand behind this quote:
Conclusion: Quantum theory has an obvious supernatural interpretation and no interpretations consistent with naturalism.
The World English Dictionary
supernatural
— adj
1. of or relating to things that cannot be explained according to natural laws
2. characteristic of or caused by or as if by a god; miraculous
3. of, involving, or ascribed to occult beings
4. exceeding the ordinary; abnormal
yet you said it is the natural law that makes it so. obviously it is not supernatural.

you aren't too quick are you?

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#485
Mar 6, 2013
 

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Shubee wrote:
I stand behind this quote:
Conclusion: Quantum theory has an obvious supernatural interpretation and no interpretations consistent with naturalism.
The World English Dictionary
supernatural
— adj
1. of or relating to things that cannot be explained according to natural laws
2. characteristic of or caused by or as if by a god; miraculous
3. of, involving, or ascribed to occult beings
4. exceeding the ordinary; abnormal
Funny that, I have just searched for that “quote” and the ONLY occurrence of it in google is your everthingimportant godbot site. So not really a quote at all but something cobbled together by a seventh day adventist with an axe of denial to grind and there is no right of peer review. No wonder you did not cite the quoter.

No, quantum theory/mechanics does not have any such “obvious” supernatural interpretation except to godbots who need a supernatural interpretation. Just because as a godbot you don’t understand quantum mechanics does not make it god magic. Never mind what your preacher and your built on ignorance godbot site says, try asking someone who knows, a particle physicist or quantum physicist what they understand about quantum theory.

thefreedictionary.com
quantum mechanics
A fundamental theory of matter and energy that explains facts that previous physical theories were unable to account for, in particular the fact that energy is absorbed and released in small, discrete quantities (quanta), and that all matter displays both wavelike and particle like properties, especially when viewed at atomic and subatomic scales. Quantum mechanics suggests that the behavior of matter and energy is inherently probabilistic and that the effect of the observer on the physical system being observed must be understood as a part of that system. Also called quantum physics, quantum theory

See perfectly understood

Quantum mechanics is a fairly new branch of scientific investigation and one of the hardest to study, you have to create new science just to see its effects. True the ideas do not makes sense using the accepted laws of the universe, all that means is that we don’t know all the laws. However some of those laws that were unknown only 2, 5 or 10 years ago are now known.

Quarks, leptons, gauge bosons etc were just ideas not many years ago, now their structure is for the most part understood and their action can be observed. In the last few months the probability of the missing particle, the “Higgs boson” has shot from the purely theoretical “it must exists otherwise the rest does not make sense” to 99.999% sure of existence. Exciting and frenetic times in the science of quantum mechanics.

Mathematics have been created to model observed behaviour and even unobserved behaviour bases on start and end parameters. See Dr Param Singh’s work, his maths is helping solve the problems of quantum infinities of singularities or if you really want to screw you mind try the one particle theory of Dr John Archibald Wheeler, it’s beautifully simple.
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#486
Mar 6, 2013
 

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ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Funny that, I have just searched for that “quote” and the ONLY occurrence of it in google is your everthingimportant godbot site. So not really a quote at all but something cobbled together by a seventh day adventist with an axe of denial to grind and there is no right of peer review. No wonder you did not cite the quoter.
Consider the context. I was arguing with woodstick about what I actually said and believe.
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#487
Mar 6, 2013
 
ChristineM wrote:
No, quantum theory/mechanics does not have any such “obvious” supernatural interpretation except to godbots who need a supernatural interpretation.... try asking someone who knows, a particle physicist or quantum physicist what they understand about quantum theory.
So Freeman Dyson is a godbot and isn't qualified to refute your willful ignorance on quantum mechanics?
everythingimportant.org/naturalism/

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#488
Mar 6, 2013
 

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Shubee wrote:
<quoted text>Consider the context. I was arguing with woodstick about what I actually said and believe.
You said – and I quote you –“I stand behind this quote:”
Shubee wrote:
<quoted text>So Freeman Dyson is a godbot and isn't qualified to refute your willful ignorance on quantum mechanics?
everythingimportant.org/naturalism/
WTF are you talking about? Freeman Dyson is retired, he is coming up on 90, he did his best work between 20 and 60 years ago yet you repeatedly quote him as though he is producing leading edge, world beating goddidt proclamations every day.

He DID NOT provide that quote, your goddidt site owner did that

What he did say was - Technology is a gift of God. After the gift of life it is perhaps the greatest of God's gifts. It is the mother of civilizations, of arts and of sciences.

So are you saying he was not a godbot

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#489
Mar 6, 2013
 
Shubee wrote:
<quoted text>So Freeman Dyson is a godbot and isn't qualified to refute your willful ignorance on quantum mechanics?
everythingimportant.org/naturalism/
Maybe it's just Dyson's nature to be supernatural?
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#490
Mar 6, 2013
 

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ChristineM wrote:
No, quantum theory/mechanics does not have any such “obvious” supernatural interpretation except to godbots who need a supernatural interpretation. Just because as a godbot you don’t understand quantum mechanics does not make it god magic. Never mind what your preacher and your built on ignorance godbot site says, try asking someone who knows, a particle physicist or quantum physicist what they understand about quantum theory.
Here's what Freeman Dyson said about the supernaturalism of quantum physics in 1985:

My personal theology is described in the Gifford lectures that I gave at Aberdeen in Scotland in 1985, published under the title, Infinite In All Directions. Here is a brief summary of my thinking. The universe shows evidence of the operations of mind on three levels. The first level is elementary physical processes, as we see them when we study atoms in the laboratory. The second level is our direct human experience of our own consciousness. The third level is the universe as a whole. Atoms in the laboratory are weird stuff, behaving like active agents rather than inert substances. They make unpredictable choices between alternative possibilities according to the laws of quantum mechanics. It appears that mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent inherent in every atom. The universe as a whole is also weird, with laws of nature that make it hospitable to the growth of mind. I do not make any clear distinction between mind and God. God is what mind becomes when it has passed beyond the scale of our comprehension. God may be either a world-soul or a collection of world-souls. So I am thinking that atoms and humans and God may have minds that differ in degree but not in kind. We stand, in a manner of speaking, midway between the unpredictability of atoms and the unpredictability of God. Atoms are small pieces of our mental apparatus, and we are small pieces of God's mental apparatus. Our minds may receive inputs equally from atoms and from God. This view of our place in the cosmos may not be true, but it is compatible with the active nature of atoms as revealed in the experiments of modern physics. I don't say that this personal theology is supported or proved by scientific evidence. I only say that it is consistent with scientific evidence.
http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/dyson_progres...
The Dude

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#491
Mar 6, 2013
 

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Shubee wrote:
<quoted text>Quantum theory is the physics of things that happen for no reason whatsoever. How is that not supernatural?
Ah, good old argument from incredulity, god of the gaps fallacy.
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#492
Mar 6, 2013
 

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Shubee wrote:
<quoted text>You obviously don't know the first thing about statistical mechanics and quantum theory.
Maybe not, but neither do you. Well okay, you may know something about statistical mechanics due to your math background, but that can be dismissed due to your butchering it as justification for religious apologetics, i.e.: the chances of billions upon billions of independant species spontaneously poofing themselves into existence via multiple quantum abiogenesis may be extremely low, but possible.
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#493
Mar 6, 2013
 

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Shubee wrote:
I stand behind this quote
Of course you do. Because ultimately it's all you have. That doesn't change the fact that there is nothing supernatural about quantum physics. And there's nothing about it that justifies Biblical apologetics. Sorry.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

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#494
Mar 6, 2013
 

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ChristineM wrote:
Why is it that idiots like you are too bone idle (or ignorant) to bother educating themselves?
Why is it that idiots like you are too bone idle (or ignorant) to bother clicking a link?
^^^Ad hom.

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ChristineM wrote:
What is so scary about clicking a link, what is so scary about educating yourself, is it that such action will show you to be a deliberately ignorant moron and so you choose to ignore it in the hope that it will go away.
Not all links are safe. Use reliable sources and trusted certificates, not random links found on bulletin boards.

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ChristineM wrote:
There are THOUSANDS of such experiments listed under that link, each and every one will prove you are a lying moron because you have not got the balls to contradict all of them with lies.
Not one single experiment showing climate change mitigation is feasible, not one experiment on climate change mitigation in the atmosphere. Not one trial of climate change mitigation that shows how it would help or how much it would cost.

Climate change mitigation is a hoax.

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ChristineM wrote:
You can wait as long as you like, I am not here to teach you, that is your job but if you want to remain ignorant all your life that’s your prerogative. However don’t go trying to shift the blame for your deliberate ignorance onto me. Just be a man for once in your life.
Catastrophic man made climate change alarmism is pseudoscience.
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#495
Mar 6, 2013
 

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The Dude wrote:
there is nothing supernatural about quantum physics.
I stand with Freeman Dyson on that. Shall I quote him again?

"Atoms in the laboratory are weird stuff, behaving like active agents rather than inert substances. They make unpredictable choices between alternative possibilities according to the laws of quantum mechanics. It appears that mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent inherent in every atom."
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#496
Mar 6, 2013
 

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Shubee wrote:
<quoted text>I stand with Freeman Dyson on that. Shall I quote him again?
No need. As I said, appeal to authority is all you have. And since the man himself is not here to speak on his own behalf it is still disingenuous of you to claim his writings support creationism. You are also not considering the possibility that he is using "mind" as a metaphor. And nor are you providing a scientific mechanism for the mind you propose (God).

The only thing of note really is that you are making the argument that randomness indicates intelligence, whereas the vast majority of creationists argue the precise opposite. I find that mildly amusing.
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#497
Mar 6, 2013
 

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The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
No need. As I said, appeal to authority is all you have.
Too late. Freeman Dyson has already spoken. And as you should know if you were not so self-deceived, appeal to stupidity is all you have.

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