Skull Valley lawmaker wants both side...

Skull Valley lawmaker wants both sides of climate change taught to students

There are 1632 comments on the Verde Independent story from Feb 5, 2013, titled Skull Valley lawmaker wants both sides of climate change taught to students. In it, Verde Independent reports that:

Saying students are getting only one side of the debate, a state senator wants to free teachers to tell students why they believe there is no such thing human-caused "global warming.' The proposal by Sen.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Verde Independent.

Level 6

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#193 Feb 15, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
What you actually mean is “What's wrong with students examining what scientists who don’t think like you do are saying?
You can put it that way, except that I don't speak for them. They do an excellent job of speaking for themselves.
Level 6

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#194 Feb 15, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
Nope it lists no peer reviewed articles but voices a one sided opinion without the option for peer review. It is exactly what we have come to expect from your sources.
Your whining is meaningless since accomplished scientists are saying that the peer-review process in climate science has been co-opted by delusional pseudo-science.
Level 6

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#195 Feb 15, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
Nope I don’t dismiss it, I have no need to, the consensus of journalistic and scientific opinion dismisses it for me.
And they do all your thinking for you. The problem is that accomplished scientists are saying that your faith is flawed.
Level 6

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#196 Feb 15, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
There are very few dissident scientists
That's not the view of the dissident scientists at everythingimportant.org/climategate/
Level 6

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#197 Feb 15, 2013
Wallop10 wrote:
Dyson is speaking from ideology not science, it is just coming from the Far Left, not the Far Right.
"[Public spending on global warming] take(s) away money and attention from other problems that are much more urgent and important. Poverty, infectious diseases, public education and public health. Not to mention the preservation of living creatures on land and in the oceans. "
Here he is talking frankly about this, comparing himself to James Hansen who has actually studied climatology.
<< He [Hansen] has all the credentials. I have none. I don't have a Ph.D. He's published hundreds of papers on climate. I haven't. By the public standard he's qualified to talk and I'm not.***
But I do because I think I' m right. I think I have a broad view of the subject, which Hansen does not. I think it's true my career doesn't depend on it, whereas his does. I never claim to be an expert on climate. I think it's more a matter of judgement than knowledge.">>
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/29/magazine/29... ;
Per Wikipedia quoting Dyson:
* " My objections to the global warming propaganda are not so much over the technical facts, about which I do not know much, but it's rather against the way those people behave and the kind of intolerance to criticism that a lot of them have.[13]
* " I'm not saying the warming doesn't cause problems, obviously it does. Obviously we should be trying to understand it. I'm saying that the problems are being grossly exaggerated. They take away money and attention from other problems that are much more urgent and important. Poverty, infectious diseases, public education and public health. Not to mention the preservation of living creatures on land and in the oceans."
This is foolishness. This is just anti-science from the Far Left.
Yes, quote mining is foolishness. But it's very satisfying to superficial minds.
SpaceBlues

Cypress, TX

#198 Feb 15, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes and governments, the military, national (and US state) utilities companies etc in several countries, employ my craft, that makes no difference to the fact of the scientific consensus which he is rejecting with outdated and irrelevant data
If he us using his craft to influence legislators then he need to consider more up to date data with less reliance on commercial interest.
Interesting. I used craft for ff's "skill in evasion or deception, guile." What's your craft?

:-)

Otherwise I agree with you. NM happens to be the home of many climate scientists but maybe they don't go to Santa Fe for lectures.
SpaceBlues

Cypress, TX

#199 Feb 15, 2013
Shubee wrote:
<quoted text> to CM:

And they do all your thinking for you. The problem is that accomplished scientists are saying that your faith is flawed.
I can tell you you are wrong. Why are you here other than to promote yourself, which you are poor at?
SpaceBlues

Cypress, TX

#200 Feb 15, 2013
Shubee wrote:
<quoted text>to W10:
Yes, quote mining is foolishness. But it's very satisfying to superficial minds.
LOL.
Level 6

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#201 Feb 15, 2013
SpaceBlues wrote:
I can tell you you are wrong.
That's all that you can do. But you can't stomach listening to what accomplished dissident scientists like Miklós Zágoni, Richard Lindzen and Freeman Dyson are saying.

"Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early 21st century's developed world went into hysterical panic over a globally averaged temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and, on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to contemplate a roll-back of the industrial age." -- Richard Lindzen.
SpaceBlues

Cypress, TX

#202 Feb 15, 2013
Shubee wrote:
<quoted text>That's all that you can do...delete.
You did not answer my question.

<You are no MIT graduate yourself.>
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#203 Feb 15, 2013
Shubee wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, quote mining is foolishness. But it's very satisfying to superficial minds.
Hence your constant satisfaction.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#204 Feb 15, 2013
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>You did not answer my question.
<You are no MIT graduate yourself.>
He's a middle school math teacher who thinks he's Jesus. Science is not his strong suit.
PHD

Cibolo, TX

#205 Feb 15, 2013
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>You did not answer my question.
<You are no MIT graduate yourself.>
And your not a graduate. My bad you are a graduate from the spaced out spacedoutblues scientific science fiction babble.

Level 7

Since: Sep 07

Los Angeles, CA

#206 Feb 15, 2013
Shubee wrote:
<quoted text>That's all that you can do. But you can't stomach listening to what accomplished dissident scientists like Miklós Zágoni, Richard Lindzen and Freeman Dyson are saying.
"Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early 21st century's developed world went into hysterical panic over a globally averaged temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and, on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to contemplate a roll-back of the industrial age." -- Richard Lindzen.
So far that "tenth of a degree" has resulted in several "Biggest Storms we've ever seen" which have cost the US _TRILLIONS_ of dollars in damages.

IT's been responsible for year after year being the new "hottest year on record", which in turn has cost us billions.

It's causing draughts and massive forest fires, more billions in both damages and lost revenue.

And yet idiots like you are saying "I don't see what the big deal is".

Oh, and for the record, the industrial age ended in the 50s. The nuclear age ended in the late 80s. We are about at the end of the Information age now and the start of either "the age of genetics" or "the age of 3D printing"

So, I not too worried about "rolling back" some shit that's been over for 60 years.
PHD

Cibolo, TX

#207 Feb 15, 2013
Only three category-5 storms have hit the United States since record-keeping began—the 1935 Labor Day hurricane, which devastated the Florida Keys, killing 600; Hurricane Camille in 1969, which ravaged the Mississippi coast, killing 256; and Andrew in 1992, which leveled much of Homestead, Fla. Hurricane Katrina in 2005 was a category-5 storm at peak intensity over the central Caribbean, Mitch in 1998 was a category-5 storm at its peak over the W Caribbean, and Gilbert in 1988 was a category-5 storm at its peak. Gilbert was the strongest Atlantic tropical cyclone of record until Wilma in 2005, which was at its peak while category-5 storm over the W Caribbean. The 1970 Bay of Bengal tropical cyclone killed some 300,000 persons, mainly by drowning, and devastated Chittagong (now in Bangladesh); some 130,000 died when a cyclone struck Myanmar along the Andaman Sea in 2008. The deadliest U.S. hurricane was the 1900 Galveston storm, which killed 8,000–12,000 people and destroyed the city. Hurricane Katrina (2005), one of the worst natural disasters in U.S. history, was economically the most destructive U.S. storm, devastating the SW Mississippi and SE Lousiana coasts, flooding New Orleans, killing some 1,200 people, and leaving hundreds of thousands homeless. Hugo (1989) in South Carolina and Opal (1995) and Charley, Ivan, and two others (2004) in Florida, and Rita (2005) in Louisiana and Texas also caused billions of dollars worth of damage. Weak hurricanes can still cause major flooding and damage, even when downgraded to a tropical storm, as did Hurricane Agnes (1972).

And you were saying.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#208 Feb 15, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
So far that "tenth of a degree" has resulted in several "Biggest Storms we've ever seen" which have cost the US _TRILLIONS_ of dollars in damages.
IT's been responsible for year after year being the new "hottest year on record", which in turn has cost us billions.
It's causing draughts and massive forest fires, more billions in both damages and lost revenue.
And yet idiots like you are saying "I don't see what the big deal is".
Ah, that might possibly have something to do with the honourable Ellen G White's tertiary prediction of the Second Coming of Jesus.

(after her primary and secondary predictions both failed)
PHD

Cibolo, TX

#209 Feb 15, 2013
Just like scientific science fiction failed
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#210 Feb 15, 2013
PHD wrote:
Just like scientific science fiction failed
Your sentence contradicts itself.
PHD

Cibolo, TX

#211 Feb 15, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Your sentence contradicts itself.
Thank you for your input. See even you can respond without the use of calling names. I do disagree with your statement.
SpaceBlues

Cypress, TX

#212 Feb 15, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
He's a middle school math teacher who thinks he's Jesus. Science is not his strong suit.
A colorful fellow, I see. He should consider this:

[April 30, 2012 New York Times] "Dr. Lindzen accepts the elementary tenets of climate science. He agrees that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas, calling people who dispute that point "nutty." He agrees that the level of it is rising because of human activity and that this should warm the climate." However, he believes that decreasing tropical cirrus clouds in a warmer world will allow more longwave radiation to escape the atmosphere, counteracting the warming. Lindzen first published this "iris" theory in 2001,[7] and offered more support in a 2009 paper,[44] but today "most mainstream researchers consider Dr. Lindzen’s theory discredited." Dr. Lindzen acknowledged that the 2009 paper contained "some stupid mistakes" in his handling of the satellite data. "It was just embarrassing," he said in an interview. "The technical details of satellite measurements are really sort of grotesque."[59][from Wikipedia]

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