The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#390 Oct 8, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
Look Gilette, This has gotten to the point where you evos do not even know what you are saying or what you are talking about.
I have no doubt that you can provide mountains of woffle about regions and advantage and bla bla. It changes from day to day and is all flavour of the month.
It is to be sucked up by the gullible.
Here is some more..
Epistasis has substantial impacts on evolution, in particular, the rate of adaptation. We generated combinations of beneficial mutations that arose in a lineage during rapid adaptation of a bacterium whose growth depended on a newly introduced metabolic pathway. The proportional selective benefit for three of the four loci consistently decreased when they were introduced onto more fit backgrounds. These three alleles all reduced morphological defects caused by expression of the foreign pathway. A simple theoretical model segregating the apparent contribution of individual alleles to benefits and costs effectively predicted the interactions between them. These results provide the first evidence that patterns of epistasis may differ for within- and between-gene interactions during adaptation and that diminishing returns epistasis contributes to the consistent observation of decelerating fitness gains during adaptation.
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/332/6034/11...
These data support models in which negative epistasis contributes to declining rates of adaptation over time.
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/332/6034/11...
Hence the variations are limited, not increased, with the accumulation of beneficial mutations Great then, all the talk about beneficial mutations is also as clear as mud...not that any evo or nature or TOE knows exactly what is beneficial at any time because we all know survival of the fittest is rubbish. It is more about survival of the luckiest.
Let me be clear. TOE is as clear as mud and that is the basis for evos saying they 'know' TOE is 'right'.
So you take evolutionist claims out of context (note that not one of them, who by the way you ALREADY claimed "don't know anything anyway", are claiming their work falsifies evolution), claim a reduction of variation indicates a reversal, which in itself would not prevent evolution occurring beforehand, and claim that evolution is wrong because evolution is correct because it's PRECISLEY what you need in order for Genesis and Flood "theories" to work.

You were saying something about knowing more than us, and that evolution was all over the map? Have you checked your own house recently?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#391 Oct 8, 2012
MazHere wrote:
You evos are trying to turn your philosophy of naturalism into a science.
Translation:
MazHere wrote:
Science iz rong cuz GODDIDIT WITH MAGIC!
Boom.

Yes that WAS you just shooting yourself in the foot. But thanks for telling everybody that that's EXACTLY what you were gonna do.
Johny

League City, TX

#392 Oct 8, 2012
MIDutch wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure it does. They are called transitional fossils and there are thousand of them.
Heck, there are transitional species alive today that are great example of how animals can adapt to alien environments.
Mudskippers - fish on dry land
Penguins -birds fully adapted to an aquatic life style
Seals - mammals caught between the ocean and dry land
Manatees - mammals fully adapted to an aquatic life style but not as perfected as the porpoises and whales
Ostriches - birds fully adapted for a terrestrian life style
Flying squirrels - mammals not quite flying but doing the next best thing
Gliding reptiles - ditto for reptiles
Flying fish - ditto for fish
The argument that there are NO transitional fossils is just silly. They DO exist and they have corresponding organisms still alive today.
The evolution of whales (which evolution deniers always claim is mere speculation and non existent) can be easily imagined using LIVING mammals in various stages of aquatic adaption:
weasel, otter, sea otter, sea lion, seal, elephant seal, manatee, whale.
If we can have animals in differing stages of adaption to an aquatic life style today, then why CAN'T we have them in the distant past.
MIDutch - Uh pretty sketchy to me! Where IS the evidence. So I can kinda look for any similarity and presto I have my evidence! Is this real scientific.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#393 Oct 8, 2012
Johny wrote:
<quoted text>
MIDutch - Uh pretty sketchy to me! Where IS the evidence. So I can kinda look for any similarity and presto I have my evidence! Is this real scientific.
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/T9Q...
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#394 Oct 8, 2012
Feel free to ignore it again Johnny.

Level 7

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#395 Oct 8, 2012
Johny wrote:
<quoted text>
MIDutch - Uh pretty sketchy to me! Where IS the evidence. So I can kinda look for any similarity and presto I have my evidence! Is this real scientific.
Well, if I give you a series of skulls and ask you to put them in order by who ones are most similar to which, you would be able to do so.

If I then gave you the same series of skulls with dates stamped on them and asked you to put them in chronological order, you would be able to do so.

You would find that it's the same order.

How do you explain that?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#396 Oct 8, 2012
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, if I give you a series of skulls and ask you to put them in order by who ones are most similar to which, you would be able to do so.
If I then gave you the same series of skulls with dates stamped on them and asked you to put them in chronological order, you would be able to do so.
You would find that it's the same order.
How do you explain that?
Meh, just luck.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#398 Oct 9, 2012
Ha the culprit for HIV evolving into AIDS found. It was not sexual promiscuity or a gay lifestyles that did us in.
NOOO the FARMERS caused AIDS.

:)

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#399 Oct 9, 2012
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
So you take evolutionist claims out of context (note that not one of them, who by the way you ALREADY claimed "don't know anything anyway", are claiming their work falsifies evolution), claim a reduction of variation indicates a reversal, which in itself would not prevent evolution occurring beforehand, and claim that evolution is wrong because evolution is correct because it's PRECISLEY what you need in order for Genesis and Flood "theories" to work.
You were saying something about knowing more than us, and that evolution was all over the map? Have you checked your own house recently?
I got all that about negative epistasis...pathways...adaptat ion etc.
But for some reason i can't get me head around what you wrote here Dude ;)
Uh...pray ye find yer washed away house with a map on evolutin?

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#400 Oct 9, 2012
I wonder how fossil bob is doing

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#401 Oct 9, 2012
MAAT wrote:
I wonder how fossil bob is doing
Really. He's been pretty scarce lately.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#402 Oct 9, 2012
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
I got all that about negative epistasis...pathways...adaptat ion etc.
But for some reason i can't get me head around what you wrote here Dude ;)
Uh...pray ye find yer washed away house with a map on evolutin?
No problem. It's the surprise waiting for fundies when they find out where they went wrong.

If they claim that humanity started with Adam and Eve, and then all over again with Noah and his family, they have to explain genetic diversity WITHIN humans from that point onwards. And what is required is evolution on such a scale it far outstrips normal evolution, to the point where mutation rates are comparable to that of cancer. This is yet another way the creationists wipe out all life on the planet when attempting to claim evolution is wrong.

So what they are really saying is that evolution didn't happen, but evolution definitely did happen. Any problems? Well then God fixed 'em all with magic.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#403 Oct 9, 2012
Lately i'v been introduced to transmigration.
Sort of a dinner-table thing.
When i was in Kahanan...

But you should see it as a figure of speech.
(At least i hope so, some seem to take it pretty serious)
Similar to in effect teaching, but starting of with the statement:'let me learn.'

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#404 Oct 9, 2012
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
No problem. It's the surprise waiting for fundies when they find out where they went wrong.
If they claim that humanity started with Adam and Eve, and then all over again with Noah and his family, they have to explain genetic diversity WITHIN humans from that point onwards. And what is required is evolution on such a scale it far outstrips normal evolution, to the point where mutation rates are comparable to that of cancer. This is yet another way the creationists wipe out all life on the planet when attempting to claim evolution is wrong.
So what they are really saying is that evolution didn't happen, but evolution definitely did happen. Any problems? Well then God fixed 'em all with magic.
oncogenic epigenetic methylisation and cancer in general at the loci is our favourite mode of acquiring genes.
Without cancer we would not be.
After splitting of from the apes as concestor, we acquired in an upbeat tempo above number of genes.
But indeed doing the clay act and then Noah again is a bit musch to ask.
Though as they say, even a child can see that Noah's boys married outside their group.

So we had giants (sticking with the OT interpretation) and this went wrong, and merited punishment.
Frankly the daughters of mankind had sex with the angels.
(What would that do to the genepool)
The later bad angel that did not want to bow for Adam or humankind would have abstained...should he not have been rescued.
Apparently he was, for he is still around.(According to Forreal asexual reproduction is of the devil.)
No question about anyone being an unbeliever in those conditions.
When one get's into the why's and wherefore's leading up to the situation, it makes even less sense.

My explanation is that this was an enigmatic way of explaining ancient fossils, like f.i. on Myconos.
And how and why they could have all disappeared. Having Thera in mind or oral tradition.
They were displayed in temples in the shape of humans, feeding into the myths of half-gods. One-eyed giants a.s.o.
Archeologist simply threw them aside, since that was not fitting in the ideas about old Hellenic religion. An older layer of no interest to them, so to say.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#405 Oct 9, 2012
MAAT wrote:
According to Forreal asexual reproduction is of the devil.
Wow! That sure would make his theology interesting!

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#406 Oct 10, 2012
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow! That sure would make his theology interesting!
And he invoked pigs.

Sofar no explanation has been forth-coming.
But it would also make his science interesting.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#407 Oct 10, 2012
macumazahn wrote:
This despite the fact that they'vs been forced, kicking and screaming, to revise their own dogma often.
Example:
"I don't believe in macroevolution, I believe in microevolution."

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Everton, Australia

#408 Oct 26, 2012
Thomas Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Example:
"I don't believe in macroevolution, I believe in microevolution."
Microevolution has been observed. Macroevolution has been extrapolated from an organisms requirement to have adaptive ability to survive.
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#409 Oct 26, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
Microevolution has been observed. Macroevolution has been extrapolated from an organisms requirement to have adaptive ability to survive.
There is no barrier between so-called micro and macro -- therefore, they are two stages of the same process.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#410 Oct 26, 2012
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no barrier between so-called micro and macro -- therefore, they are two stages of the same process.
Bizackly.

"Macro" is "micro" over enough time.

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