The Earth Conspires Against Mammalia

The Earth Conspires Against Mammalia

Posted in the Evolution Debate Forum

Rob D

Mclean, VA

#1 Aug 3, 2012
It has been said that more people have been on the moon than any 2 miles under the sea. In discussions about evolution with my step son (after a visit to the Science Center in Baltimore), it drove my curiosity about whales. Why are there mammals in the sea? What direction did evolution take to put them there? So I started a little research of my own. I discovered that whales are descendants of land dwelling mammals - the closest being the hippo. "Interesting", I thought. What would drive a mammal from land back into the sea - still dependent on the oxygen in the land air. Why wouldn't it develop gills and pull it from the water? Digging a little deeper, I discovered that the current oxygen in the air - and sea is depleting and the CO2 is definitely increasing. The CO2 is creating much more violent storms on earth which in turn convert the CO2 combined with other elements back to O2 - not O3 which is what our ozone is made of. Interesting again. Did you know that the number of cases of skin cancer are increasing by 1 million per year? This is great evidence that our ozone is depleting. Getting back to the main point: What would drive an oxygen dependent mammal back to the sea? An abundance of O2 in the air, a depleted ozone, and a storm filled sky blocking the sun from producing foliage on the surface. The mammal adapted to the earth's climate by giving itself a new ozone layer - water, which coincidentally has excellent energy absorbency. By the way - not to scare any one, but current O2 levels are @ 21% and as low as 15% in metropolitan areas and dropping. Much less than 15% and humans start to sleep. CO2 is taking the place of oxygen. Much like a fear of heights, it's not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop at the end. Likewise, an absence of oxygen in your body won't kill you, but the presence of the other elements will. Have we explored the wrong territory? What are your thoughts?
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#2 Aug 3, 2012
Must've been one heck of a storm.
Rob D

Washington, DC

#3 Aug 3, 2012
The Dude wrote:
Must've been one heck of a storm.
Indeed. I picture it to have been much like the surface of Jupiter at the time.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#4 Aug 4, 2012
http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/bre86s0id-us...
places where CO2 is taken in and where it is expelled, but a net carbon sink.
this was just a survey for the Southern ocean that takes care of about 40% of manmade carbon.

I have no idea how it works for the rest of the oceans.
Another study however showed that depleting carbon made antarctic ice grow. This would effect the oceanic conveyor-belt and be detrimental to sealive.
(darn and blast...lost the nice link to such events of a huge timeline) I recall that some Japanese bivalves had to become self-reproductive or migrate round half the earth to start a strange cycle of reproduction with an in essence formerly not compatible co-species in the Belgium harbours or was it Florida.(just taking a stab at the data here)

What kind of storm would it have to be that would disturb the uptake of carbon, since wind is normally conducive.
What is the time that event occurred?
Is there a different scenario possible?
A bottleneck event?
Snowball earth is also an option, though never decisively proven.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#5 Aug 4, 2012
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/last-woolly-ma...
Mammoths going forth and back
One can google for arctic tipping point.
http://doronnof.net/downloads/Paper88.pdf
How does it all fit together on a global scale
http://satori.geociencias.unam.mx/19-3/ (7)Ogasawara.pdf
The lovely bivalves
http://rsta.royalsocietypublishing.org/conten...
uhh...very interesting...i have to type the addresses, so kind of lost the gist.
(paleo)climate 14 articles

There is more of a chance of a huge cyclone in the oceans, given increased warming.
With a sudden tipping point.
Still have to look up the whales.
Bering-strait coming up!

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#6 Aug 4, 2012
http://www.geologytimes.com/research/Bering_S...
With the research by HU.
Also of interest pyrite and oxygen.

They have also found that 550 Mya is a minimum estimate for the same level of oxygen we have now.
Probably allready from 620 Mya.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#7 Aug 4, 2012
Whale meets bivalve.
Some details remain fuzzy and under investigation. But we know for certain that this back-to-the-water evolution did occur, thanks to a profusion of intermediate fossils that have been uncovered over the past two decades.

In 1978, paleontologist Phil Gingerich discovered a 52-million-year-old skull in Pakistan that resembled fossils of creodonts -- wolf-sized carnivores that lived between 60 and 37 million years ago, in the early Eocene epoch. But the skull also had characteristics in common with the Archaeocetes, the oldest known whales. The new bones, dubbed Pakicetus, proved to have key features that were transitional between terrestrial mammals and the earliest true whales. One of the most interesting was the ear region of the skull. In whales, it is extensively modified for directional hearing underwater. In Pakicetus, the ear region is intermediate between that of terrestrial and fully aquatic animals.

Another, slightly more recent form, called Ambulocetus, was an amphibious animal. Its forelimbs were equipped with fingers and small hooves. The hind feet of Ambulocetus, however, were clearly adapted for swimming. Functional analysis of its skeleton shows that it could get around effectively on land and could swim by pushing back with its hind feet and undulating its tail, as otters do today.

Rhodocetus shows evidence of an increasingly marine lifestyle. Its neck vertebrae are shorter, giving it a less flexible, more stable neck -- an adaptation for swimming also seen in other aquatic animals such as sea cows, and in an extreme form in modern whales. The ear region of its skull is more specialized for underwater hearing. And its legs are disengaged from its pelvis, symbolizing the severance of the connection to land locomotion.

By 40 million years ago, Basilosaurus -- clearly an animal fully adapted to an aquatic environment -- was swimming the ancient seas, propelled by its sturdy flippers and long, flexible body. Yet Basilosaurus still retained small, weak hind legs -- baggage from its evolutionary past -- even though it could not walk on land.

None of these animals is necessarily a direct ancestor of the whales we know today; they may be side branches of the family tree. But the important thing is that each fossil whale shares new, whale-like features with the whales we know today, and in the fossil record, we can observe the gradual accumulation of these aquatic adaptations in the lineage that led to modern whales.

As evolutionary biologist Neil Shubin points out, "In one sense, evolution didn't invent anything new with whales. It was just tinkering with land mammals. It's using the old to make the new."

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#8 Aug 4, 2012
ScienceDaily (Nov. 15, 2009)— Penguins that died 44,000 years ago in Antarctica have provided extraordinary frozen DNA samples that challenge the accuracy of traditional genetic aging measurements, and suggest those approaches have been routinely underestimating the age of many specimens by 200 to 600 percent.

So 100,000 would actually be 200,000 or even 600,000 y.o.
http://sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/0911...
The article states that evolution went faster.(the molecular clock and if only part is sequenced)
Edward T. Babinski Cetacean evolution adap. Nat Geo
http://etb-whales.blogspot.nl/2012/03/evoluti...
arctic tipping points
http://www.science20.com/chatter_box/artic_ti...
All ingredients at hand, so what's cooking...

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#9 Aug 4, 2012
Interesting again. Did you know that the number of cases of skin cancer are increasing by 1 million per year? This is great evidence that our ozone is depleting.

wrote Rob D

i saw an interesting program on UV light,'vit'D formation and pigmentation and people having adapted to environment. Research on zebra-fish by Chen coroborates this.
Neanderthals 55,000 y.o. also were found to have light skin as adaptation to cold climate.

Old diseases like rickets might return because people migrate more.
But it can also mean that formerly less exposed people suddenly get too much damage by UV A. UV B just stays on the surface.
Or our statistics and detection-methods are finally up to date.
And what is the current state of the Ozon-layer?
So how significant is this number?
(I recall waiting in my bank because it was so much more interesting to talk with the collegue that had skin-cancer. They had sent all employees for testing and three had to have a small spot removed.
I'm not really sorry to say it but it's awfully trendy and interesting to have cancer. They flaunt it in your face! Instead of slapping the grined glass-cream on. The other kind amages the coral-reefs.)
It's not like we are talking about Australian sheep that have their eyes rotting and soring away because of over-exposure to UV-light due to ozon-depletion. Or indeed damage to the coral-reefs not due to anti-UV cream.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#10 Aug 4, 2012
I hate crowded beaches...i suppose we must learn synchronous swimming...

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Evolution Debate Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Atheism, for Good Reason, Fears Questions (Jun '09) 2 min Demon Finder 20,354
News Evolution vs. Creation (Jul '11) 4 min syamsu 210,241
News It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in e... (Mar '09) 6 min It aint necessari... 152,326
News "Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really T... (Jan '12) 55 min Into The Night 45,575
Hillary, a taco stand on every corner 1 hr Demon Finder 5
Science News (Sep '13) 17 hr Voyeur 3,629
America evolving into lockdown on purpose Sep 25 Dogen 68
More from around the web