Why I don't believe in Natural Select...
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“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#21 Jul 9, 2013
ShawnBob wrote:
So no, I don't believe animals adapt to their environments at all. In my view, the environment does not change the animals at all, but it is the animals that change their environment. Let me explain:
<quoted text>
I explain extinction precisely because animals are NOT adapting to their environment in my view. Their environment changes, while they do not, so they become extinct. At least one could classically argue that the environment changes faster than the animals are capable of adapting to it.
Better would have been:
"So no, I don't believe it is the usual mode of evolution whereby animals actively adapt to their environments. In my view, the environment does not cause the animals to adapt to it necessarily. It is the animals that are able change environments as they themselves change--as needed to survive or prosper."
I hope that's clearer, and not worse ;p
Clearer? Nah.

First you say "it is the animals that change their environment."

Then you go on to say "...because animals are NOT adapting to their environment in my view.

So imagine my confusion. Do animals change their environment or do they fail to adapt to a changing environment?

Wasabi?
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#22 Jul 9, 2013
LGK

There is a new topic in which someone is looking to establish discussion on what exactly is the definition of the Biblical term "kinds."

Care to contribute? You use the word and believe in its source.

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TO3...
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#23 Jul 9, 2013
ShawnBob wrote:
That is to say, that almost all mutations are "not good" mutations in that they won't confer any special ability to survive more than your peers in your environment.
Fact is that beneficial mutations occur and for obvious reasons spread through the population quickly.
ShawnBob wrote:
Imagine all bears have always been black, and suddenly you are born a white bear. This mutation isn't a "good mutation". Being white won't help you out much in your environment.
Actually it will if there's a new ice age. All of a sudden your prey can't see you.
ShawnBob wrote:
So it's probably a "neutral mutation" in our discussion, or perhaps even a "bad mutation"...making you stand out like a sore thumb in the herd of black bears, or not able to lurk in the shadows and pounce onto prey.
Bingo. So it all depends on how well the mutation does in the native environment.
ShawnBob wrote:
People always speak of "animals adapting to their environments". This requires a "good mutation" where-as the other way just requires any mutation that allows you to find and establish a separate breeding population in a better environment suited to your particular traits.
No, because a mutation being beneficial or not can often depend on the environment, as shown above. Let's try another. A land-based species acquires a mutation that gives them webbed feet. Suddenly a drastic climate change turns the area into a desert, and the survivors find their feet cumbersome. It is now considered a detrimental mutation. Or the environment could flood and the exact same mutation is a benefit.
ShawnBob wrote:
Now, this can be done by freewill
Deserts or floods? Only if you're a God.

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