Are You Intelligently Designed?

Are You Intelligently Designed?

There are 409 comments on the The Capital-Journal story from Oct 23, 2012, titled Are You Intelligently Designed?. In it, The Capital-Journal reports that:

Sometimes, when I'm discussing or debating issues with online atheists, agnostics, and evolutionists, the huge topic of Intelligent Design comes up, and they ask me to explain the Intelligent Design hypothesis to them.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Capital-Journal.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#283 Jan 31, 2013
32 patents...in other words he was filthy rich and bought his place at cornell.
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#284 Jan 31, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
For someone who claims the precision of a mathematician, you choose a deliberately woolly and subjective measure of fitness, and of course you do so precisely in order to try and make this assertion of Sanford's unfalsifiable.
Sanford predicts a continually increasing number of genetic diseases for the healthiest segment of the human population. That seems like a straightforward prediction that should be easy to refute.

“I Am No One Else”

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#285 Jan 31, 2013
Shubee wrote:
<quoted text>Sanford predicts a continually increasing number of genetic diseases for the healthiest segment of the human population. That seems like a straightforward prediction that should be easy to refute.
Fallacy of equivocation, that's not a prediction, it's a fallacy.

We have become better at detecting genetic illnesses, thus the number of diagnosed cases will increase massively as a result. It's not an increase in the amount of genetic illnesses, it's simply knowing more about them.

There, refuted, and I didn't even break a sweat.
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#286 Jan 31, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
We have become better at detecting genetic illnesses, thus the number of diagnosed cases will increase massively as a result.
And as the number of new genetic diseases escalate, devolution theory will grow in acceptance to the point of being practically undeniable.

“I Am No One Else”

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#287 Jan 31, 2013
Shubee wrote:
<quoted text>And as the number of new genetic diseases escalate, devolution theory will grow in acceptance to the point of being practically undeniable.
So ... you didn't read any of my post and just added your assertion, which was demonstrated to be a fallacy by the post you responded to with that assertion. Nice, care to add some lies on top of your fallacies just for flavor?
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#288 Jan 31, 2013
Shubee wrote:
And as the number of new genetic diseases escalate, devolution theory will grow in acceptance to the point of being practically undeniable.
It seems to me that Alzheimer's Disease is a relatively new but serious genetic disease in perfect agreement with devolution theory. See "Diabetes Gene Linked to Degeneration of Enzyme Involved in Alzheimer's Disease Onset and Progression" at http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/10/...

““You must not lose faith ”

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#289 Jan 31, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Fallacy of equivocation, that's not a prediction, it's a fallacy.
We have become better at detecting genetic illnesses, thus the number of diagnosed cases will increase massively as a result. It's not an increase in the amount of genetic illnesses, it's simply knowing more about them.
There, refuted, and I didn't even break a sweat.
Ah, how apt, the gunpowderplot.1605. Used for dating the writing of macbeth. And use of jezuitic equivocation.
The porter imagines the second applicant for the entrance into hell to be a believer in equivocation who can say yes and no to the same question to suit his purpose. But the equivocation has not opened the gate of heaven i.e. pleased God and he has to knock at the gate of Hell.

Sanford basicly shot at plants, with some sort idea of improving yield, or whatever.(I'm usually not that desinterested. But people that posit the earth to be 100,000 years old, are potty. Though i'll bet he would equivocate that he only stated that creation was that old.) But the guy frankly has no business to then go and compare the ID he used on plants and that reduced diversity (or rather all this genetic engineering done since the rice fields in china and olive trees resp. 10,000 and about 9,000 years ago, that frankly reduced diversity and thus viability and resistance or the option for a symbiotic relationship to 'pests') to the rest of evolution.

“I Am No One Else”

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#290 Jan 31, 2013
Shubee wrote:
<quoted text> It seems to me that Alzheimer's Disease is a relatively new but serious genetic disease in perfect agreement with devolution theory. See "Diabetes Gene Linked to Degeneration of Enzyme Involved in Alzheimer's Disease Onset and Progression" at http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/10/...
Wait, what? Alzheimer's has been around for a long time, we just recently figured out what it is, and are now understanding it enough to even begin seeking possible cures. As far as we can tell, it's existed since the species first climbed from the trees.

“I Am No One Else”

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#291 Jan 31, 2013
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah, how apt, the gunpowderplot.1605. Used for dating the writing of macbeth. And use of jezuitic equivocation.
The porter imagines the second applicant for the entrance into hell to be a believer in equivocation who can say yes and no to the same question to suit his purpose. But the equivocation has not opened the gate of heaven i.e. pleased God and he has to knock at the gate of Hell.
Sanford basicly shot at plants, with some sort idea of improving yield, or whatever.(I'm usually not that desinterested. But people that posit the earth to be 100,000 years old, are potty. Though i'll bet he would equivocate that he only stated that creation was that old.) But the guy frankly has no business to then go and compare the ID he used on plants and that reduced diversity (or rather all this genetic engineering done since the rice fields in china and olive trees resp. 10,000 and about 9,000 years ago, that frankly reduced diversity and thus viability and resistance or the option for a symbiotic relationship to 'pests') to the rest of evolution.
Wow, it's worse than I thought. lol

““You must not lose faith ”

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#292 Jan 31, 2013
Shubee wrote:
<quoted text>And as the number of new genetic diseases escalate, devolution theory will grow in acceptance to the point of being practically undeniable.
Identifying genes that might be involved, is just another possibility of finding a cure or to diagnose.
Having a gene does not equal it being switched on.

People can smoke til they are 104 y.o. and not get cancer or whatever they always tryto scare people with. They simply lack the switch off. Or switch on.
Cancer is more a process of cells not dying. You tell 'm to die, and they do not listen. That's eternal life.

Blessed you be, when you die you will beget cancer.
When people praise torture-implements and hold those holy, or claim to be jesus...a little TRUTH won't hurt.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#293 Jan 31, 2013
Shubee wrote:
<quoted text> It seems to me that Alzheimer's Disease is a relatively new but serious genetic disease in perfect agreement with devolution theory. See "Diabetes Gene Linked to Degeneration of Enzyme Involved in Alzheimer's Disease Onset and Progression" at http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/10/...
Diabetesgene? I did not read yet, but next you are going to tell me that an ancient neanderthaler/Denizovan gene, that also makes people have trouble processing alcohol is responsible for Alzheimer!

The process by which a linear sequence of amino acids folds into a discrete and functional three-dimensional protein is one on which life depends. Although the code that governs folding remains a mystery, we do know that the primary sequence is subject to evolutionary pressure to adjust folding rate and product stability according to physiological needs. The failure of a protein to fold correctly leads to a functional deficit, which can have serious consequences, as in cystic fibrosis. However, there is an emerging class of late-onset, slow-progressing diseases that appear to result instead from a gain of function associated with the abnormally folded form of the protein. These diseases, which are characterized by ordered, fibrillar aggregates comprising different proteins, include common neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer’s disease (AD) and Parkinson’s disease (PD) as well as many rare systemic diseases such as familial amyloid polyneuropathy (1, 2).
NO... NOT 'AHA TOLD YOU SO...KEEP READING!
What do the fibrillizing proteins have in common? Although all of the fibrils share some morphological features (3–6), examination of the primary sequences of the constituent proteins does not reveal a conserved motif. In fact, the ability to form fibrils in vitro is not limited to the disease-associated proteins, as illustrated by the paper of Chiti et al. in this issue of the Proceedings (7) and an earlier paper from the same group (8).

>>>> Thus two globular proteins with no homology to the disease-associated proteins or to each other have the ability to form fibrils that resemble those extracted from diseased tissue. In both cases, the globular proteins are prone to fibril formation under conditions that stabilize a partially folded structured form of the protein. Most proteins appear to have evolved to fold without populating such an intermediate (9).<<<<<

The rationale for this phenomenon and its possible implications for degenerative disease will be discussed.
---
So the protein does not fold open properly. Also thought to be the culprit for AAT fibromyalgia. A form that is linked closely to cystic fibrosis. But that can be kept at bay for about $90,000 a year.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#294 Jan 31, 2013
This gives an entirely different meaning, given Alzheimer, to baring your cross and let the children come to me:

All amyloid fibrils contain &#946;-sheet structure in which the peptide strands are aligned orthogonal to the direction of fibril growth (1). This “cross-&#946;” motif may be responsible for the similar widths of most fibrils;

Must be a disease designed by god (the jesus-god thus).

““You must not lose faith ”

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#295 Jan 31, 2013

““You must not lose faith ”

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#296 Jan 31, 2013
In contrast, the sequences of fibrillizing proteins are not subject to evolutionary pressure to optimize the fibril or its assembly, but merely to avoid sequences that would lead to juvenile-onset diseases that could interfere with reproduction. Thus, only mutations that promote very rapid fibrillization and possibly, juvenile-onset disease, would be selected against.

We could hold that up to the definition of fitness that Shubee was not happy with.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#297 Jan 31, 2013
TYPE II, by a slightly different process.

Transthyretin, &#945;-synuclein, and the type II diabetes-linked islet amyloid polypeptide all form morphologically similar species (6, 16, 30).

““You must not lose faith ”

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#298 Jan 31, 2013
mamals and mainly primates (includes thus humans) are a generalized species (talk about adapting and survivability)

Therefore:
Several studies have demonstrated that genes involved in placentation have evolved adaptively during mammalian descent [21–25]. Adaptive evolution can be measured by comparing the per site rates of nonsynonymous (dN) to synonymous (dS) substitutions in protein coding sequences. The ratio of these substitution classes is called dN/dS or w. The values = 1, >1, and <1, are [20]interpreted as signifying neutral evolution, positive selection, and purifying selection, respectively [26]. dN/dS can be measured in a variety of ways [27], but most studies that measure dN/dS are designed to test for evidence of positive selection on particular evolutionary lineages.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#299 Jan 31, 2013
That figures, highly subsidised by the pharmaceutical industry, thus with bias.
At least i can't find the proper explanation, for the very elusive substance responsible before the visible process, in what is a very complex proteine-crucifixion variation.

quote from science daily:
colleagues found that a gene known as proliferator-activated receptor coactivator 1 (PGC-1), a key regulator of glucose currently investigated as a potential therapeutic target for Type 2 diabetes, is decreased in Alzheimer's disease. The team reports that this decrease might be causally linked to promotion of Alzheimer's disease. They found that PGC-1 promotes degradation of a specific enzyme known as beta-secretase (BACE). ACE is directly involved in the processing and eventually generation of &#946;-amyloid, an abnormal protein highly linked to Alzheimer's disease and brain degeneration.

"Our research is the first to find that PGC-1 is a common denominator between Type 2 diabetes and Alzheimer's disease," said Dr. Pasinetti. "This discovery will have significant implications for the more than five million Americans affected by Alzheimer's disease, a number that is expected to skyrocket in the next three decades as the population ages. We look forward to continuing to research this discovery and translate it into the development of novel approaches for disease prevention and treatment."

Dr. Pasinetti and his colleagues are optimistic that if they find that PGC-1 can be manipulated pharmacologically to prevent BACE accumulation in the brain, these studies will provide important insights for the formulation of novel treatments and possible preventative strategies in Alzheimer's disease.

end quote

The same claim goes for protease plasters on wounds that not heal in diabetes II, due to protease in them.(what kind you may ask)

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#300 Jan 31, 2013
Shubee wrote:
<quoted text>Sanford predicts a continually increasing number of genetic diseases for the healthiest segment of the human population. That seems like a straightforward prediction that should be easy to refute.
But this prediction does not differentiate Sanford from standard evolution, which also predicts an increasing number of genetic diseases when natural selection is counteracted with medicine.

On the other hand, Sanford also predicts that lost fitness cannot be recovered in a population, which IS a prediction that distinguishes Sanford from standard evolution....and experiments show that evolution, not Sanford, is correct. Experiments in fitness recovery falsify Sanford conclusively, not to mention falsifying your hypothesis which merely rides on Sanford's coattails.

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#301 Jan 31, 2013
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah, how apt, the gunpowderplot.1605. Used for dating the writing of macbeth. And use of jezuitic equivocation.
The porter imagines the second applicant for the entrance into hell to be a believer in equivocation who can say yes and no to the same question to suit his purpose. But the equivocation has not opened the gate of heaven i.e. pleased God and he has to knock at the gate of Hell.
Sanford basicly shot at plants, with some sort idea of improving yield, or whatever.(I'm usually not that desinterested. But people that posit the earth to be 100,000 years old, are potty. Though i'll bet he would equivocate that he only stated that creation was that old.) But the guy frankly has no business to then go and compare the ID he used on plants and that reduced diversity (or rather all this genetic engineering done since the rice fields in china and olive trees resp. 10,000 and about 9,000 years ago, that frankly reduced diversity and thus viability and resistance or the option for a symbiotic relationship to 'pests') to the rest of evolution.
Yes. All that Sanford actually explained was that if you increased the mutation rate significantly, by bombarding organisms with high does radiation, that any beneficial mutations will be swamped by deleterious ones...he then proposed that the same thing happened more generally at a slower pace in all living things.

Population geneticists had already solved this problem long before Sanford, but Sanford simply quote-mined them to support his hypothesis...which was formulated for the specific goal of "saving humanity from Godless atheism".

““You must not lose faith ”

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#302 Feb 1, 2013
I allready gave you the big approval. ;)

But i think the other material i posted also illustrates your point, and gives insight in the scientific method and carefull scrutiny the thought-proces of evolution employs.

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