Expelled: The Movie Explores Intellig...

Expelled: The Movie Explores Intelligent Design and the Case Against Big Science

There are 131 comments on the Men's News Daily story from Nov 11, 2007, titled Expelled: The Movie Explores Intelligent Design and the Case Against Big Science. In it, Men's News Daily reports that:

“People will be stunned to actually find out what elitist scientists proclaim, which is that a large majority of Americans are simpletons who believe in a fairy tale”

November 10, 2007 at 11:40 pm Filed under Culture , Intelligent Design , Entertainment , Vox Populi In Expelled: The Movie , economist, lawyer, presidential speech-writer, and all-around media personality Ben ... via Men's News Daily

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Men's News Daily.

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sillysillysilly

Austin, TX

#1 Dec 30, 2007
There is no "case against big science".
This film will be political propaganda.

“we do sarcasm and irony here”

Since: Aug 07

Redlands, CA

#2 Dec 30, 2007
sillysillysilly wrote:
There is no "case against big science".
This film will be political propaganda.
Too late, it already was before it ever came out.

It's too bad Mike didn't take a little bit of time checking into some of those "stories" of scientists who are being punished for believing in ID. He'd realize that was a a little bit of difference between reality and Expelled.

Since: Nov 07

Somewhere near you

#3 Dec 30, 2007
This will be like the movie Sicko, lol

Since: Nov 07

Somewhere near you

#4 Dec 30, 2007
One thing to know though is that no matter what, someone being denied tenure for a belief is the same as being denied a job due to their religion. It's unconstitutional and is a sueable offense.

“That's just MY opinion...”

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#5 Dec 30, 2007
RMB Furion wrote:
One thing to know though is that no matter what, someone being denied tenure for a belief is the same as being denied a job due to their religion. It's unconstitutional and is a sueable offense.
As has been mentioned before on these pages, you can't seriously say that an ID proponent is being persecuted for a religious belief and also contend that ID is science and not religion. Can you see the contradiction?

“Rattling for Chemistry”

Since: Dec 06

Deep Swamps of Georgia

#6 Dec 30, 2007
RMB Furion wrote:
One thing to know though is that no matter what, someone being denied tenure for a belief is the same as being denied a job due to their religion. It's unconstitutional and is a sueable offense.
RBM you are clueless again.

http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2007/12/iowa-...
Iowa Citizens for Science, a grassroots group dedicated to improving public education, feels that the Discovery Institute and Guillermo Gonzalez, a senior fellow at the creationist think tank, are circumventing the normal scientific process to promote their religious ideology. Gonzalez and the DI have announced plans to sue Iowa State University, asserting that ISU violated Dr. Gonzalez’ First Amendment rights in denying his tenure application.

The claim that his rights were violated seems odd to many observers.“How can Gonzalez complain if his work on ID was considered?” wonders Dr. Tara Smith, president of Iowa Citizens for Science and assistant professor of epidemiology at the University of Iowa.“If intelligent design is scientific, his department is entitled judge his work in that field. If ID is not science, it’s fair to question why their faculty member is spending so much of his time and resources on it. The claims of persecution issuing from the Discovery Institute and Dr. Gonzalez require that intelligent design be both science and religion. This isn’t about science, it’s about politics.”

The ISU astronomy department did not publicly release detailed reasons for the tenure denial, but the Chronicle of Higher Education found that Gonzalez’ rate of publication had dropped off dramatically since he joined the ISU faculty. None of his graduate students had completed their programs, and he had not received grants from the National Science Foundation or NASA, the major funders of astronomical research. The decline in Gonzalez’ productivity corresponds to the time when he began writing and promoting intelligent design.

“we do sarcasm and irony here”

Since: Aug 07

Redlands, CA

#7 Dec 30, 2007
RMB Furion wrote:
One thing to know though is that no matter what, someone being denied tenure for a belief is the same as being denied a job due to their religion. It's unconstitutional and is a sueable offense.
Fortunately, in these cases, nobody was denied tenure or a job because of their religion.

Further more, people are denied jobs and tenure all the time because of their religion or lack thereof. Just ask any non Christian that tries to get a job at Bob Jones "University". Getting a job in a baptist preschool is also quite difficult. Happens all the time in the private world. There are some who are trying to do something about it.

“Pingustopher Walken”

Since: Dec 06

Cornwall, Canada

#8 Dec 30, 2007
He presents some strong points....

http://www.expelledthemovie.com/playground.ph...

“Pingustopher Walken”

Since: Dec 06

Cornwall, Canada

#9 Dec 30, 2007
Here's some more...check out the O'Reilly interview

http://www.expelledthemovie.com/video.php

“Rattling for Chemistry”

Since: Dec 06

Deep Swamps of Georgia

#10 Dec 30, 2007
Starts With S wrote:
He presents some strong points....
http://www.expelledthemovie.com/playground.ph...
He presents only ignorant points and lies.

“we do sarcasm and irony here”

Since: Aug 07

Redlands, CA

#11 Dec 30, 2007
Starts With S wrote:
Here's some more...check out the O'Reilly interview
http://www.expelledthemovie.com/video.php
Bring up Bill'O is the kiss of death to your rep. I suggest you not do it again or people will mock you and forever ignore anything you say. It is a most powerful curse and one not to be disregarded.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#12 Dec 31, 2007
Starts With S wrote:
Here's some more...check out the O'Reilly interview
http://www.expelledthemovie.com/video.php
jufulu FCD wrote:
<quoted text>
Bring up Bill'O is the kiss of death to your rep. I suggest you not do it again or people will mock you and forever ignore anything you say. It is a most powerful curse and one not to be disregarded.
Too late.

Using O'Reilly as a source should automatically disqualify one from the debate.

“Pingustopher Walken”

Since: Dec 06

Cornwall, Canada

#13 Jan 1, 2008
hexene wrote:
<quoted text>
He presents only ignorant points and lies.
Prove it. You just made Ben Stein's point. Instead of having an open mind people shun what they don't believe. How about instead of being ignorant, you check it out for yourself? By making this statement you're just like all the other Darwinists referred to in the movie.

“we do sarcasm and irony here”

Since: Aug 07

Redlands, CA

#14 Jan 1, 2008
Starts With S wrote:
<quoted text>
Prove it. You just made Ben Stein's point. Instead of having an open mind people shun what they don't believe. How about instead of being ignorant, you check it out for yourself? By making this statement you're just like all the other Darwinists referred to in the movie.
Let me explain my thinking process when I come across new information. I compare it to what I already know. I assign levels of confidence in the new material depending on how much I know about a subject. Sometimes I do more research on it. When I determine it's bullshit, I flush it.

Be careful of having too open of a mind, you might accidentally get it infected by a virus. The firewall around my mind is skeptisizm.
deanoff

Newcastle, UK

#15 Jan 1, 2008
Starts With S wrote:
<quoted text>
Prove it. You just made Ben Stein's point. Instead of having an open mind people shun what they don't believe. How about instead of being ignorant, you check it out for yourself? By making this statement you're just like all the other Darwinists referred to in the movie.
Intelligent Design as had its day in court, in dover Pennsylvania,and judge Jones showed it up for what it is, religion disguised as science, or in other words biblical creationism.

“Rattling for Chemistry”

Since: Dec 06

Deep Swamps of Georgia

#16 Jan 1, 2008
Starts With S wrote:
<quoted text>
Prove it. You just made Ben Stein's point. Instead of having an open mind people shun what they don't believe. How about instead of being ignorant, you check it out for yourself? By making this statement you're just like all the other Darwinists referred to in the movie.
Open mind to pseudoscience...that is crap. Science is not a democracy and ID is only about religious apologetics no matter how you dice it.

Ben Stein Wrote:
"today’s world, at least in America, an Einstein or a Newton or a Galileo would probably not be allowed to receive grants to study or to publish his research."

I for one am glad that governmental granting agencies are reluctant to give money to dead people

This article from points to all the general persecution claims in Ben Stein's movie.

http://stevereuland.blogspot.com/2007/08/expe...

Like everyone else in a free society, scientists have a right to think you're a moron. If you are making ostensibly scientific claims -- whether it's saying that the Earth is 6000 years old, new genetic information can't evolve, or that airplanes can't fly -- your colleagues have not only a right, but a duty to evaluate your claims and pass judgment on them. That is what scientific discourse is all about. Scientists have heated debates all the time, and the ones who eventually lose those debates inevitably pay a price by losing esteem in the eyes of their peers. And those who cling to false beliefs long after they've been debunked... why they really lose esteem. How could it be any other way? Without a doubt a bad reputation is unhelpful to one's career prospects, but the ultimate responsibility for this rests with those who earned the bad reputation to begin with. ID has simply failed to gain any traction in the scientific arena because it is poorly reasoned, contrary to established fact, and in many cases downright incoherent. The ID movement has thus responded4 by pouring all of its resources into their political machinations and highly dishonest propaganda campaign. Unsurprisingly this makes ID look even less legitimate in the eyes of the scientific community. If Ben Stein wants to a good example of why scientists think very poorly of ID advocates, this silly film he's starring in ranks right at the top.

The ID movement can't have it both ways on this. They can't demand to be taken seriously by the scientific establishment and then throw a tantrum when scientists actually do take them seriously. And that's exactly why they engage in the bait-and-switch I mentioned earlier. The actual merits of ID as a supposedly scientific theory are glaringly absent from the Expelled website. I don't doubt that they'll be absent from the film as well. They are taking ID's presumed intellectual merits for granted and are appealing instead to supposedly anti-religious sentiment as the reason why ID is being roughly treated. In doing so, they side-step the very issue that's at stake as far as science is concerned. Moreover, scientists as a group are actually quite tolerant of religious diversity -- much more so than the fundamentalist Christians who make up the base of the ID movement. But if you start claiming that your religious beliefs are scientific, and if you start demanding that they be taught in science class, scientists are going to respond. Don't start crying if the response is negative.

Since: Nov 07

Somewhere near you

#17 Jan 2, 2008
Then why is evolution still debated since it is losing a majority of debates vs ID and creationists?

“Rattling for Chemistry”

Since: Dec 06

Deep Swamps of Georgia

#18 Jan 2, 2008
RMB Furion wrote:
Then why is evolution still debated since it is losing a majority of debates vs ID and creationists?
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!! Who said evolution lost! What debates? Dover comes to mind where ID/Creationism lost in court as religious apologetics pseudoscience. You truly are dense.
Fossil Bob

Urbana, IL

#19 Jan 2, 2008
RMB Furion wrote:
Then why is evolution still debated since it is losing a majority of debates vs ID and creationists?
Only in your own mind! The scientists talk science... the creationists put on a carny side-show, with no substance.

The main problem is that creationists simply know too little science to understand that they lost the argument long ago!

“Pingustopher Walken”

Since: Dec 06

Cornwall, Canada

#20 Jan 2, 2008
hexene wrote:
<quoted text>
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!! Who said evolution lost! What debates? Dover comes to mind where ID/Creationism lost in court as religious apologetics pseudoscience. You truly are dense.
Galileo lost his case in court too, and had to recant so he wouldn't be burned at the stake. What makes you think the judge in Dover was right? I'll bet if you had your way all religious zealots would be burned at the stake too. Seems like we're regressing as a society whenever this topic comes up. Nobody has won or lost yet, this is still up for debate yet Darwinists refuse to believe it. If anybody had won/lost this forum wouldn't exist.

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