Aliens and evolution

Jun 19, 2012 Full story: Washington Times 6,103

DENTON, Texas, June 19, 2012 - Aliens are ingrained in our cultural psyche. They abound in books, movies, radio, and a thousand theories about the extra-terrestrial, little green men, UFO sightings, abductions, Area 51, and Roswell.

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Level 7

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#5456 Jan 13, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
DNA was found in a meteorite.
http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2011...
Once again Aura, you link something claiming one thing but the article says something different.

Scientists have not found DNA. They've found the components for DNA.

This is the difference between finding a brick and finding a wall.

Yes, it is good evidence for life emerging elsewhere in the Universe. No, it does not say what you claim it says.

You need to read stuff before you link it.

Level 7

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#5457 Jan 13, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>I disagree, religion has created wonderful institutions like universities, hospitals, orphanages and good philanthropic works. The day I see as many atheist organizations organizing similar institutions; I'll reconsider why I think religions help make people behave better.
By this standard, I'll claim the US and everyone we've ever given aid to or funded in any way as an secular organization.

It's important to note that many of the things listed above are not exactly what you claim them to be.

For example, Mother Teresa's orphanage in India was a slaughterhouse. It was a factory for killing children. Rather than give the children medical care, they focused primarily on converting the children to Catholicism before the child died.

From their perspective, why bother saving a child's life if you can instead save his soul.

From the perspective of a rational morally upstanding human being - they are only an inch higher up the chain than the Nazis.

Look to the hospital in Ireland recently that let a woman suffer for three days before she died due to complications of a miscarriage. All they needed to do was perform an abortion on the fetus which was 100% doomed. Instead, they gleefully watched a woman suffer and then watched both mother and doomed fetus die.

Look to the religious universities which are actively engaged in removing evolution from schools, in preventing science from reporting the facts it uncovers, in demonizing a whole segment of our society because their playbook has arbitrarily decided that those people aren't as good as these people.

I'd be amazed if you can find a single TRULY good religious institution that provides aid and care REGARDLESS of the belief system of the people it tends to.

Level 7

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#5458 Jan 13, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
Is there a hospital or university built by one of the groups on your list in your hometown?
That's a fallacy.

Claiming that doctors without borders is not doing good work because they haven't built a hospital in downtown Los Angeles is more than dishonest. It's pathetic.

DWB does work in 3rd world countries, in war zones. They don't build hospitals in downtown LA because there are already hospitals in downtown LA.

Level 7

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#5459 Jan 13, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes Nuglips we get to beyond the scope of your comprehension,
really quick.
I applaud the fact that you attempted to use punctuation in this last sentence.

Next time, put it in the correct place.

Additionally, if you comprehended the sentence you were attempting to construct, you would know that it should be "go beyond" not "get to beyond".

Now, if you have an actual response to any of the points I've raised, I'd be amazed to hear it. Or, alternately, you could present me with a single sentence explanation of your position.

Neither of these things are really expected though. We've learned from a years worth of posts that you and Skippy are kindred spirits awash in ignorance and ineptitude.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#5460 Jan 13, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again Aura, you link something claiming one thing but the article says something different.
Scientists have not found DNA. They've found the components for DNA.
This is the difference between finding a brick and finding a wall.
Yes, it is good evidence for life emerging elsewhere in the Universe. No, it does not say what you claim it says.
You need to read stuff before you link it.

They were fragments of DNA, nugatory.

http://www.news-about-space.org/astronomy-new...

Level 7

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#5461 Jan 13, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
Religions help teach how to become a better person. Atheism can't do that.
Wow, you have that absolutely backwards.

A good person does works of charity. Charity is impossible for Christians. They literally can't do it.

An act of charity occurs when someone gives their time, work or wealth to help others with no personal gain for themselves.

Christians believe that if they do not help others, they will be punished with eternal damnation and if they do help others they will be rewarded with eternal bliss.

Thus any action they take is either aimed at preventing punishment or gaining reward or both.

Meanwhile, an atheist who performs an act of charity may get a since of self worth out of it, but they can not gain any future magical reward. If I give someone $10, that's $10 less for me and $10 more for him. End of story. It doesn't go on some magic ledger to be tallied up at the end.

Level 7

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#5462 Jan 13, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
They were fragments of DNA, nugatory.
http://www.news-about-space.org/astronomy-new...
AGain, you link without reading.

"building blocks of DNA"
"DNA precursors"

Look at the words and get a friend or parent to explain what the big ones mean.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#5463 Jan 13, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
I applaud the fact that you attempted to use punctuation in this last sentence.
Next time, put it in the correct place.
Additionally, if you comprehended the sentence you were attempting to construct, you would know that it should be "go beyond" not "get to beyond".
Now, if you have an actual response to any of the points I've raised, I'd be amazed to hear it. Or, alternately, you could present me with a single sentence explanation of your position.
Neither of these things are really expected though. We've learned from a years worth of posts that you and Skippy are kindred spirits awash in ignorance and ineptitude.

You don't get to write my script either do you?
Go whine about it if you like, see if we care nutbag.

Level 7

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#5464 Jan 13, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheism isn't a religion, so you can't compare it. It's a lack of belief in god, not a set of dogma or stories and so its intention isn't to be a vehicle for charity or war or anything else, it just describes a person's lack of faith.
Incorrect.

Your performance on the thread demonstrates a great deal of dogmatism.

You are actually describing agnosticism.

Atheists believe (without evidence) that there can be no gods. It's the same as the religious who believe (without evidence) that gods exist.

Agnostics hold that without evidence they can not know one way or another.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#5465 Jan 13, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
Would you agree that by definition 2, Ramses or any other pharaoh would be a god?
I'd agree that ancient Egyptians believed Ramses was god; isn't that proof of god?

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#5466 Jan 13, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
By this standard, I'll claim the US and everyone we've ever given aid to or funded in any way as an secular organization.
It's important to note that many of the things listed above are not exactly what you claim them to be.
For example, Mother Teresa's orphanage in India was a slaughterhouse. It was a factory for killing children. Rather than give the children medical care, they focused primarily on converting the children to Catholicism before the child died.
From their perspective, why bother saving a child's life if you can instead save his soul.
I disagree with N. characterization of Missionaries of Charity. I challenge him for proof of those defamatory claims.

.
Nuggin wrote:
From the perspective of a rational morally upstanding human being - they are only an inch higher up the chain than the Nazis.
I question N.'s understanding of morality; without religion all morality is subjective.

.
Nuggin wrote:
Look to the hospital in Ireland recently that let a woman suffer for three days before she died due to complications of a miscarriage. All they needed to do was perform an abortion on the fetus which was 100% doomed. Instead, they gleefully watched a woman suffer and then watched both mother and doomed fetus die.
I blame socialized medicine.

We've always offered exceptions for the risk to the mother's life. For us, abortion isn't a black and white issue except for the question of taxpayers paying for your abortion.

.
Nuggin wrote:
Look to the religious universities which are actively engaged in removing evolution from schools, in preventing science from reporting the facts it uncovers, in demonizing a whole segment of our society because their playbook has arbitrarily decided that those people aren't as good as these people.
Please name a modern religious university that doesn't allow the teaching of evolution. For religious people, they understand faith and science are two different things while radical secularists attribute their own faith to science.

.
Nuggin wrote:
I'd be amazed if you can find a single TRULY good religious institution that provides aid and care REGARDLESS of the belief system of the people it tends to.
Missionaries of Charity is a Roman Catholic religious congregation established in 1950 by Blessed Mother Teresa of Calcutta. It consists of over 4,500 religious sisters and is active in 133 countries. Members of the order designate their affiliation using the order's initials, "M.C." A member of the Congregation must adhere to the vows of chastity, poverty, obedience, and the fourth vow, to give "Wholehearted and Free service to the poorest of the poor."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missionaries_of_...

“ecrasez l'infame”

Level 1

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#5467 Jan 13, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Incorrect.
Your performance on the thread demonstrates a great deal of dogmatism.
You are actually describing agnosticism.
Atheists believe (without evidence) that there can be no gods. It's the same as the religious who believe (without evidence) that gods exist.
Agnostics hold that without evidence they can not know one way or another.
Straw man fallacy.

Atheist, literally not-theist (i.e., not belief in the existence of one or more gods). Anything and everything you add to this is by definition not applicable to all atheists and therefore fallacy.

People accept that theism is a category that comprises numerous religions and sects. Why are these same people unwilling to see that atheism is also just a category that must be considered at the same level and with as much variation of sub-philosophies as theism.

Skeptic dos not define all atheists....I don't define all atheists ... but then there is not any one person that defines all theists. The very idea of such is stupid in the extreme.

The category "atheism" defines any and all people who do not specifically fit into the category "theism." Sorry if that bursts some peoples bubbles.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#5468 Jan 13, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
Wow, you have that absolutely backwards.
This is where we differ; I don't care why a person does good work but all N. cares about is good intentions and he doesn't care about consequences.

Consequences are everything, intentions are objectively unobservable, hence they are meaningless.

.
Nuggin wrote:
A good person does works of charity.
No, a good person does good things, whether for altruistic reasons or self gain. A bad person does bad things, even if his intentions are good.

.
Nuggin wrote:
Charity is impossible for Christians. They literally can't do it.
Anybody can give charity, what matters is the act, not the motivation.

.
Nuggin wrote:
An act of charity occurs when someone gives their time, work or wealth to help others with no personal gain for themselves.
You can give charity no matter what you think.

.
Nuggin wrote:
Christians believe that if they do not help others, they will be punished with eternal damnation and if they do help others they will be rewarded with eternal bliss. Thus any action they take is either aimed at preventing punishment or gaining reward or both.
Religion helps people become better persons; it teaches charity, love and devotion. There are no atheist organizations that fulfill that role on a large scale in our society.

.
Nuggin wrote:
Meanwhile, an atheist who performs an act of charity may get a since of self worth out of it, but they can not gain any future magical reward. If I give someone $10, that's $10 less for me and $10 more for him. End of story. It doesn't go on some magic ledger to be tallied up at the end.
If a religious person gives $10, that's still $10 less for me and $10 more for him. Intent is not measurable but the act of giving is objectively measurable.

If you give $10 to a drug addict who OD's that's not a good act, no matter your intent.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#5469 Jan 13, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
AGain, you link without reading.
"building blocks of DNA"
"DNA precursors"
Look at the words and get a friend or parent to explain what the big ones mean.
I saw that too, they found evidence of chemicals similar to components of life, but not life. Neither do they attribute those chemicals to living processes.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Level 1

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#5470 Jan 13, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>....
<quoted text>I question N.'s understanding of morality; without religion all morality is subjective....
With religion all morality is still subjective. People pick and choose which parts of their religion are applicable and which parts aren't.

That's the only way Christians could possible justify not killing witches, not keeping slaves, accepting that women are not subservient to men, etc.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Level 1

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#5471 Jan 13, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>...Please name a modern religious university that doesn't allow the teaching of evolution....
Bob Jones.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Level 1

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#5472 Jan 13, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>This is where we differ; I don't care why a person does good work but all N. cares about is good intentions and he doesn't care about consequences.
Consequences are everything, intentions are objectively unobservable, hence they are meaningless.
.
<quoted text>No, a good person does good things, whether for altruistic reasons or self gain. A bad person does bad things, even if his intentions are good.
.
<quoted text>Anybody can give charity, what matters is the act, not the motivation.
.
<quoted text>You can give charity no matter what you think.
.
<quoted text>Religion helps people become better persons; it teaches charity, love and devotion. There are no atheist organizations that fulfill that role on a large scale in our society.
.
<quoted text>If a religious person gives $10, that's still $10 less for me and $10 more for him. Intent is not measurable but the act of giving is objectively measurable.
If you give $10 to a drug addict who OD's that's not a good act, no matter your intent.
But a religious person thinks that their deity is always watching them, therefore a religious person can never know what it means to do the right thing when no one's watching.

If Integrity means doing the right thing when no one is looking, then religious people can never know what true integrity is.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Level 1

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#5473 Jan 13, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
Th list is bogus, I asked for the names of hospitals, orphanages, homeless shelters, food lines and philanthropic organizations built and run by atheists, you give me a list that includes abortion providers.
More specifically:
Amnesty International - Cofounder Peter Benenson, born a Jew who converted to Catholicism.
The Red Cross founded by Henry Dunant, he also founded the Geneva chapter of the YMCA and his family raised him as a Calvanist.
Oxfam was originally founded in Oxford, UK, in 1942 as the Oxford Committee for Famine Relief by a group of Quakers and others.
Is there a hospital or university built by one of the groups on your list in your hometown?
First off Clara Barton founded the Red Cross.

And exactly how many of these types of institutions can you say were built by theism, not a specific religion within theism, but by theism itself?

It's a shame you either don't understand what atheism is or are purposefully misrepresenting it to incite hate against a whole group of people.

Every organization that is not specifically religious is secular and is sufficient for most Humanistic charity consideration. In fact Humanists are just as likely to give to religious organizations that are seen as doing good works if that organization doe not discriminate on recipients. Humanist are not as concerned at being seen of men as Christians apparently are.

“It's just a box of rain...”

Level 2

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#5474 Jan 13, 2013
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
Bob Jones.
According to one article I read recently, BJU currently offers a course called "Evolution and Origins" to its biology majors. The title indicates to me, though, that it teaches evolution in order to refute it, not as it would be taught in any other university. I also read about an applicant to various masters programs in biochemistry who could not find one that would accept his degree from BJU as it lacked the required accreditation. He had to complete another degree before being accepted into a master's program.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#5475 Jan 13, 2013
Hedonist wrote:
Bob Jones.
Teaches the science of evolution:

Bio 300 Evolution and Origins.

page 52, 2012 course catalog:
http://www.bju.edu/academics/catalogs/ug11.pd...

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