Aliens and evolution

Jun 19, 2012 Full story: Washington Times 6,101

DENTON, Texas, June 19, 2012 - Aliens are ingrained in our cultural psyche. They abound in books, movies, radio, and a thousand theories about the extra-terrestrial, little green men, UFO sightings, abductions, Area 51, and Roswell.

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Level 1

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#4058 Nov 2, 2012
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
That never occurred to me until I saw that question.
I still remember the first time I heard that album.
I was in the Naval Academy. I had a contraband record player and a set of headphones. I and a few other middies were playing penny ante poker. I was down a quarter and bowed out.(I'm not much of a gambler.)
I laid back on my bunk and put that album on with my headphones and just got goosebumps through the whole thing.
That was 40 freaking years ago.
It's a great album and ever since 1972, it's never been far from my stereo.

Level 1

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#4059 Nov 2, 2012
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Mike
I only saw Yes on the one occasion: It was on the "Going For the One" tour in 1977. They were supported by Donovan, Great show!
They were the days when you could buy concert tickets for less than the price of an album, which meant I got to see lots of great bands:
Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Jethro Tull, Moody Blues, King Crimson, Uriah Heep, Black Sabbath,Rory Gallagher, The Who, Hawkwind, Rainbow, Pink Floyd, Humble Pie, etc.
Class acts
I forgot about Wishbone Ash!

Level 7

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#4060 Nov 2, 2012
THE BAPTIST wrote:
<quoted text>You do not quite understand,that maybe god suspended thier natural instincts,for that forty days and nights.You might laugh at that,but that is most likely happenned.
I want you to stop and think for a second...

Let's say the flood happened.
Let's say that God created magic water that showed up from nowhere and then went away afterwards.
Let's say that Noah had a boat big enough to hold between 2-8 of every animal.
Let's say that he could GET all these animals (including ALL the dinosaurs, ALL the marsupials, ALL the reptiles, ALL the birds, ALL the beetles, ants, bees, etc etc etc)
Let's say that God magically made it so that none of the animals killed each other during the trip.
Let's say that Noah landed the boat and let all the animals off at Mt. Arat.
Let's say that as soon as that happened, ALL the Australian marsupials left together in one group and headed straight to Australia.
Let's say that ALL the lemurs got together and headed straight for Madagascar.
Let's say ALL of that happened.

Now, let's talk about the first WEEK after landing.

You've got 2 tigers, 2 lions, 2 leopards, 2 cheetahs, 2 grizzlies, 2 black bears, 2 wolves, 2 coyotes, 2 hyenas, 2 jackals, 2 mountain lions, 2 bobcats, 2 foxes, etc etc etc.

And you've got 2 rabbits, 2 deer, 2 antelope, etc etc etc

Rabbits reproduce fast, but they don't reproduce fast enough that they could supply food for EVERY predator.

MAYBE you could have one of the lions go a week without food, but the gestation period on a wildebest is a lot longer than a week.

EVEN IF all the prey animals gave birth IMMEDIATELY upon landing, they would still be wiped out by hungry predators within a month.

So, let's use MORE special pleading. Let's say that God made it so that the predators didn't need to eat the prey species for a full month.

Why stop? Why change it back?

If God can stop the needless death from animals killing animals AND if he actually stopped it for a month+ on the boat and several months to several years AFTERWARDS, why switch it back?

"Too many rabbits". Right? There would be too many rabbits if the wolves didn't kill them.

Well, certainly God has the ability to limit the number of rabbits produced. After all, he's tweeking everything else to fit this story.

Here's the thing.

It's a MYTH. You are supposed to take MEANING from it. You aren't supposed to treat it like a factual historical event.

When you try and apply logic to mythology the myth falls apart AND you lose all the meaning.

It's BAD THEOLOGY.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#4061 Nov 2, 2012
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
Uhmmm... Because it has not been excavated for fossils?
Really dude.
Creationism is dumb.
Since it is only 5-6 million years old , there wouldn't be any extremely old fossils and the oldest estimates put it at 17 million.
So we wont be finding dinos there anyway.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#4062 Nov 2, 2012
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey, DF.
Not sure. Their website says "It is illegal to dig up, relocate, and/or remove fossils from Grand Canyon National Park". But I'm guessing that this is directed at the general public.
Researching...
It would be that exactly , nothing unapproved without a USDA stamp. But you know if something of interest was found it would become like the topper site or the old Navaho sites.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#4063 Nov 2, 2012
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Glad they made it through OK. Mucho family in Pennsylvania with only minor power outages and some trees down. My brother in northwest New Jersey is now 4 days without power. Bummer.
One friend of family from Jersey said 4 hour wait for gas and limited to 40$, power to three out of four house holds is out.
Radekt is from NYC said power was out at his house on Long Island and at work in Manhattan. So it is tough with no traffic lights working. It's pretty messed up in from parts of NC to Maine.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#4064 Nov 2, 2012
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
You've got 2 tigers, 2 lions, 2 leopards, 2 cheetahs, 2 grizzlies, 2 black bears, 2 wolves, 2 coyotes, 2 hyenas, 2 jackals, 2 mountain lions, 2 bobcats, 2 foxes, etc etc etc.
And you've got 2 rabbits, 2 deer, 2 antelope, etc etc etc

....

It's BAD THEOLOGY.
Not to mention that even if it was SEVEN (clean) pair of critters, they would likely not have the minimum viable population -- genetically speaking -- to avoid extinction as a species.

I brought this up on another thread here, yet to get a response.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#4065 Nov 2, 2012
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Since it is only 5-6 million years old , there wouldn't be any extremely old fossils and the oldest estimates put it at 17 million.
So we wont be finding dinos there anyway.
Well I guess I didn't consider the strata for super extremely old . lol
No middle extremely old if that makes any sense...lmao.

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#4066 Nov 2, 2012
THE BAPTIST wrote:
<quoted text>You do not quite understand,that maybe god suspended thier natural instincts,for that forty days and nights.You might laugh at that,but that is most likely happenned.
Yeah, that is in the buybull.

“It's just a box of rain...”

Level 2

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#4067 Nov 3, 2012
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Mike
I only saw Yes on the one occasion: It was on the "Going For the One" tour in 1977. They were supported by Donovan, Great show!
They were the days when you could buy concert tickets for less than the price of an album, which meant I got to see lots of great bands:
Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Jethro Tull, Moody Blues, King Crimson, Uriah Heep, Black Sabbath,Rory Gallagher, The Who, Hawkwind, Rainbow, Pink Floyd, Humble Pie, etc.
Class acts
I just bowed out of a thread on the Beatles forum about whether Thee Beatles are overrated. I was on the losing end of it. While I do love the Beatles, I have no illusions about their musicianship compared to any of the above bands. What put them on top and assured their place in rock history was their ability to write great pop songs and come up with interesting and, occasionally, original arrangements in the studio. Perhaps my perspective comes from having actually performed the music of most of the above bands as a bassist or guitarist and as a singer.

Man, do I with I could have been in the audiences at those concerts!
THE BAPTIST

Belmont, NC

#4068 Nov 3, 2012
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
I want you to stop and think for a second...
Let's say the flood happened.
Let's say that God created magic water that showed up from nowhere and then went away afterwards.
Let's say that Noah had a boat big enough to hold between 2-8 of every animal.
Let's say that he could GET all these animals (including ALL the dinosaurs, ALL the marsupials, ALL the reptiles, ALL the birds, ALL the beetles, ants, bees, etc etc etc)
Let's say that God magically made it so that none of the animals killed each other during the trip.
Let's say that Noah landed the boat and let all the animals off at Mt. Arat.
Let's say that as soon as that happened, ALL the Australian marsupials left together in one group and headed straight to Australia.
Let's say that ALL the lemurs got together and headed straight for Madagascar.
Let's say ALL of that happened.
Now, let's talk about the first WEEK after landing.
You've got 2 tigers, 2 lions, 2 leopards, 2 cheetahs, 2 grizzlies, 2 black bears, 2 wolves, 2 coyotes, 2 hyenas, 2 jackals, 2 mountain lions, 2 bobcats, 2 foxes, etc etc etc.
And you've got 2 rabbits, 2 deer, 2 antelope, etc etc etc
Rabbits reproduce fast, but they don't reproduce fast enough that they could supply food for EVERY predator.
MAYBE you could have one of the lions go a week without food, but the gestation period on a wildebest is a lot longer than a week.
EVEN IF all the prey animals gave birth IMMEDIATELY upon landing, they would still be wiped out by hungry predators within a month.
So, let's use MORE special pleading. Let's say that God made it so that the predators didn't need to eat the prey species for a full month.
Why stop? Why change it back?
If God can stop the needless death from animals killing animals AND if he actually stopped it for a month+ on the boat and several months to several years AFTERWARDS, why switch it back?
"Too many rabbits". Right? There would be too many rabbits if the wolves didn't kill them.
Well, certainly God has the ability to limit the number of rabbits produced. After all, he's tweeking everything else to fit this story.
Here's the thing.
It's a MYTH. You are supposed to take MEANING from it. You aren't supposed to treat it like a factual historical event.
When you try and apply logic to mythology the myth falls apart AND you lose all the meaning.
It's BAD THEOLOGY.
You had better read about the flood again.Noah,did not choose two of every kind to put on the ark.

“Formerly "Richard"”

Level 1

Since: Mar 12

In the beginning e=mc^2

#4069 Nov 3, 2012
THE BAPTIST wrote:
<quoted text>You had better read about the flood again.Noah,did not choose two of every kind to put on the ark.
If the flood was real then the rain was landing on the decks of the ark at the rate of 150 tons per second. At that rate there would have about 4000 tons of standing water on the decks.

Level 1

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#4070 Nov 3, 2012
NightSerf wrote:
<quoted text>
I just bowed out of a thread on the Beatles forum about whether Thee Beatles are overrated. I was on the losing end of it. While I do love the Beatles, I have no illusions about their musicianship compared to any of the above bands. What put them on top and assured their place in rock history was their ability to write great pop songs and come up with interesting and, occasionally, original arrangements in the studio. Perhaps my perspective comes from having actually performed the music of most of the above bands as a bassist or guitarist and as a singer.
Man, do I with I could have been in the audiences at those concerts!
I know you're a musician, which means you're in a far better position than me when it comes to judging musicianship.

My view (for what it's worth) is that most of the bands in that roll call of artists were better musicians than the Beatles.
However, the Beatles had that elusive "something else" that insured their status as trend-setters and cultural icons.

I see a similar thing with Led Zeppelin, who are practically deified by the music press. Sure, they were a fine band but there are a host of other bands from that era who weren't far off Led Zeppelin but are largely sneered at or completely neglected - Humble Pie and Ten Years After falling into that neglected category.

Level 1

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#4071 Nov 3, 2012
THE BAPTIST wrote:
<quoted text>You had better read about the flood again.Noah,did not choose two of every kind to put on the ark.
Why was there a flood anyway?

Level 7

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#4072 Nov 3, 2012
THE BAPTIST wrote:
<quoted text>You had better read about the flood again.Noah,did not choose two of every kind to put on the ark.
Yeah, THAT'S the problem with the analysis, not the kangaroos getting to Australia, not the lions and tigers that don't eat anything for a year, not the dinosaurs, it's the "two of every animal" that's the issue.

Come on, it's a CHILDREN'S STORY and you are pretending like it's real.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#4073 Nov 3, 2012
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, THAT'S the problem with the analysis, not the kangaroos getting to Australia, not the lions and tigers that don't eat anything for a year, not the dinosaurs, it's the "two of every animal" that's the issue.
Come on, it's a CHILDREN'S STORY and you are pretending like it's real.

By your reasoning since he believes its true , its true .
It doesn't matter what you think. Because for thousands of years people believed it was a true story. As a christian he thinks what
you believe is a Subjective truth is in fact a Objective truth.

Since he is a real christian , then the story is true.

This is your logic.

“Fortes Fortuna Juvat, ”

Level 1

Since: Dec 09

Wichita. Ks.

#4074 Nov 3, 2012
THE BAPTIST wrote:
<quoted text>You had better read about the flood again.Noah,did not choose two of every kind to put on the ark.
If not then where did all the other species of animals come from?

OH I see it had to be evolution of species. So you believe in evolution as well as “story” of the flood.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#4076 Nov 5, 2012
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Mike
I only saw Yes on the one occasion: It was on the "Going For the One" tour in 1977. They were supported by Donovan, Great show!
They were the days when you could buy concert tickets for less than the price of an album, which meant I got to see lots of great bands:
Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Jethro Tull, Moody Blues, King Crimson, Uriah Heep, Black Sabbath,Rory Gallagher, The Who, Hawkwind, Rainbow, Pink Floyd, Humble Pie, etc.
Class acts
Morning,

Hawkwind??? Wow. I haven't heard that name is a long while. Saw most of those except for Tull and Rainbow/Blackmore. I think I still have a Rory Gallagher poster somewhere.

I saw Moody Blues once in Lakeland, Florida with a full orchestra. Very cool.(Actually have seen the band about five times).

Don't go to many concerts these days. Most of the bands are either past their prime or full of substitutions. And, as you said, the ticket prices are nuts.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#4077 Nov 5, 2012
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
I forgot about Wishbone Ash!
Argus!
Andre

Durban, South Africa

#4078 Nov 5, 2012
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay I get it. Rapid deposition/erosion.
Radiometric dating disproves any claims here.
I am sorry to say, but an issue is yet again stated as fact although objective analysis of data would suggest that this is an incorrect assessment of all available data.
The reason for this is that there is evidence that radiometric dating is not reliable.
You may also be familiar with problems associated with radiometric dating and the various assumptions on which it relies. So again, far from “disproving” the claim, it can merely question it based on its own questionable credibility.
From your source:'No evidence of erosion in the layers themselves'.
Really? What does your source (people who are not geologists, I tell ya that much) suppose would 'erosion in the layers' look like?
“Had these parallel layers been deposited slowly over thousands of years, erosion would have cut many channels in the topmost layers” should give you a fair idea.
Explain these questions, please.
1) Where did the water come from? The Bible speaks of 'fountins of the deep'. Where are these fountains?
Thank you for this question. It allowed me to gain some wonderful insight and especially in respect of recent discoveries. The data indicates that is was most likely the ocean floors. You may find these articles quite interesting: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/02/...
http://www.kjvbible.org/geysers.html
2) Where did the water go? Refer the term "water cycle". Water stays in the system. It alternates between liquid, solid and vapourous forms, but the total water in the system stays largely the same.
It seems that the catastrophic plate tectonics model provides some answers with seas deepening and upward movement of the continents. There may be other hypothesis as well.
3) For every animal on every continent, you need a plausible explanation for *how* they got there. Do you believe that two koala bears swam across the Indian Ocean to Australia? Do you believe that two jaguars swam over the Pacific ocean to South America? How about two dodos to Madagascar? Do this for every animal on earth.
Some interesting ideas and hints can be found reading on Krakatua. But I have no evidence, only speculation.
4) Explain how there was not a collapse of the food pyramid. I.e. Noah reportedly took two of each species on the ark, right? A male and a female? So let's say we have two gazelle in Africa and a lion catches one of them, then the breeding pair is destroyed. Next week the lion needs food again. Why are there still gazelle left? Did the carnivoes just stop eating or what?
Read Genesis 1:29,30 and Gen 9: As basic as difference in diets.
5) Explain what the herbivores ate. Let's assume that our brave animals swam over the oceans and got to the continents. Are there any plants to eat for the herbivores? An elephant needs a million calories a week. Explain how the elephants received nutrition.
It would seem from the Bible that vegetation may not have been so badly affected (dove with olive leaf Gen 8:11). They would have had ample to eat. Quite nutritious as well as it seems that somehow hyperbaric conditions existed at some time in the past – with about 50% higher oxygen levels.

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