National Science Center on Anti-Evolu...

National Science Center on Anti-Evolution Bill: "Last Thing Missouri Teachers Need"

There are 8 comments on the River Front Times story from Feb 13, 2013, titled National Science Center on Anti-Evolution Bill: "Last Thing Missouri Teachers Need". In it, River Front Times reports that:

The Missouri legislature is getting national attention again -- and not exactly the good kind.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at River Front Times.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#1 Feb 19, 2013
FaceofReason

United States

#2 Feb 21, 2013
Why shouldn't students be able to hear both sides? Let the students decide what they want to believe. Face it- the theory of evolution is not perfect. There are problems with it. Students should be able to know the strength and weaknesses of anything they're taught. Evolutionists can complain all they want about how "Creationists are trying to promote their agenda and insert religios beliefs into schools". So? What are the evolutionists doing? Trying to make sure that nobody questions their theory. They're trying to keep any people who might question evoluion quiet. They talk all the time about being open-minded and tolerant. Oh yeah? Where's their tolerance and open-mindedness? I say pass this bill- let the students decide what they want to believe. If evolutionists are so sure about their theory of evoluion- then make them prove it to the students. But let creationists have a chance to also give their side of the story.
FaceofReason

United States

#3 Feb 21, 2013
that's intended to be religious- not religios
MIDutch

Waterford, MI

#4 Feb 21, 2013
FaceofReason wrote:
Why shouldn't students be able to hear both sides? Let the students decide what they want to believe.
Right. I'm sure there are LOTS of students who would LOVE to believe that illegal drugs are a good thing ...

that binge drinking on weekends is perfectly acceptable ...

that promiscuous sex does NOT lead to bad consequences like unwanted pregnancies ...

that satanism is a great religion ...

that mom's and dad's shouldn't be allowed to impose their rules on their children, etc., etc., etc..

I'm sure you would be fine letting the students decide all of that, wouldn't you?
FaceofReason wrote:
Face it- the theory of evolution is not perfect. There are problems with it.
Such as?[breathlessly waiting for every ignorant "creationist" apologetic used for the past 200 years]
FaceofReason wrote:
Students should be able to know the strength and weaknesses of anything they're taught.
Would that include "creationism"?

Strengths: none.

Weaknesses: doesn't explain anything, invokes magic at every turn, about as scientific as Homer's the Iliad, Hansel and Gretel and the Harry Potter books (though not written as well), etc..
FaceofReason wrote:
Evolutionists can complain all they want about how "Creationists are trying to promote their agenda and insert religios beliefs into schools". So? What are the evolutionists doing? Trying to make sure that nobody questions their theory.
Because except for some of the details, there really isn't much to question.
FaceofReason wrote:
They're trying to keep any people who might question evoluion quiet. They talk all the time about being open-minded and tolerant. Oh yeah? Where's their tolerance and open-mindedness?
And you xristians have such a history of being open minded and tolerant, don't you? MILLIONS and MILLIONS of people who have died disagreeing with you will attest to that, won't they?
FaceofReason wrote:
I say pass this bill- let the students decide what they want to believe. If evolutionists are so sure about their theory of evoluion- then make them prove it to the students. But let creationists have a chance to also give their side of the story.
You "creationists" have had over 2000 years to give your side of the story. In fact, your "story" was the ONLY one allowed in most of the Western world under penalty of imprisonment, torture and death. Guess what, you've been an ABYSMAL FAILURE at showing that your "story" is anything but a bronze age goat herder FAIRY TALE.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#5 Feb 21, 2013
FaceofReason wrote:
Why shouldn't students be able to hear both sides?
Because there is no other side. Evolution is the only prevailing theory in biology. So far there has been no scientific alternative presented. Fundies on the other hand are trying to present pseudo-scientific religious apologetics illegally and stupidly into public school science classes.
FaceofReason wrote:
Let the students decide what they want to believe.
They are free to. If they teach the Holocaust in history class students are free to reject it. However they will fail history class if they don't put the correct answers. It is up to them whether they want to be dishonest and say the Holocaust happened on their history tests, or be honest and fail history.
FaceofReason wrote:
Face it- the theory of evolution is not perfect. There are problems with it. Students should be able to know the strength and weaknesses of anything they're taught.
Name any science theory, none are perfect. However they should only know VALID weaknesses. Not made up BS criticisms which have no scientific basis.
FaceofReason wrote:
Evolutionists can complain all they want about how "Creationists are trying to promote their agenda and insert religios beliefs into schools". So?
It's illegal.
FaceofReason wrote:
What are the evolutionists doing? Trying to make sure that nobody questions their theory. They're trying to keep any people who might question evoluion quiet. They talk all the time about being open-minded and tolerant. Oh yeah? Where's their tolerance and open-mindedness?
Allowing them to learn science is the best way to produce scientists. Scientists who may one day perform research that falsifies evolution.

That can never happen if creationists keep pushing for religious apologetics instead of science in science class.

So ironically, they are preventing any kind of possibility that evolution could ever be scientifically falsified.
FaceofReason wrote:
I say pass this bill- let the students decide what they want to believe.
Nothing prevents them from doing that.
FaceofReason wrote:
If evolutionists are so sure about their theory of evoluion- then make them prove it to the students.
Not a problem. UNLESS creationists muddy the issue with pseudo-science. Students are not yet educated enough to understand why the second law of thermodynamics is not a problem for evolution, but it sure sounds technical enough for the ignorant layman to sound convincing. And that is the issue here - creationists presenting outright lies and fabrications and calling it "critical thinking". We call that dishonest and anti-science.
FaceofReason wrote:
But let creationists have a chance to also give their side of the story.
They have. All they need to do is present scientific research to back up their claims. They have been unable to do that. And they've had THOUSANDS of years.

No other class allows students to decide what the correct answers are. Science should be no different. The validity of scientific concepts is verified or falsified by SCIENTISTS, not school students.

That is why we don't have many school kids as doctors and prescribing medicine for example. We have to give them many years of training first before we "let them make the choice".
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#6 Feb 21, 2013
FaceofReason wrote:
Why shouldn't students be able to hear both sides? Let the students decide what they want to believe.
Great. Let's pass a federal law that every Christian church needs to provide one hour of quality pulpit time every Sunday morning to let an atheist discuss atheism and attack Christianity, or a professional scientist present counter-arguments to Christian fundamentalist "science" and theology.

Let the kids then decide what they want to believe, right?

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#7 Feb 21, 2013
FaceofReason wrote:
Why shouldn't students be able to hear both sides? Let the students decide what they want to believe. Face it- the theory of evolution is not perfect. There are problems with it. Students should be able to know the strength and weaknesses of anything they're taught. Evolutionists can complain all they want about how "Creationists are trying to promote their agenda and insert religios beliefs into schools". So? What are the evolutionists doing? Trying to make sure that nobody questions their theory. They're trying to keep any people who might question evoluion quiet. They talk all the time about being open-minded and tolerant. Oh yeah? Where's their tolerance and open-mindedness? I say pass this bill- let the students decide what they want to believe. If evolutionists are so sure about their theory of evoluion- then make them prove it to the students. But let creationists have a chance to also give their side of the story.
Apart frm all the other objections raised, i think that 'religion'is exacty the problem.
It would not be an introduction in the 10,000+ gods, deities, nature-forces, totems, philosophies and societal structures a.s.o. but a conscious attempt to religere-bind to one conviction.
That should not be part of a well rounded eduction and thus school curriculum, for the simple reason that teachers lack the skills and knowledge that would normally come with a phd. in theology.
(It's America, so any old how....?)
Furthermore there is nor ever has there been a convincing and reliable theory of creation, nor of I.D.
It borrows from biology and evolution and in a big way mangles the findings.
So also this cannot be expected from teachers.
It would be intellectually dishonest.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#8 Feb 21, 2013
In short: it would be immoral.

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