Creation/Evolution Debate
Russell

Plympton, Australia

#482 Nov 17, 2012
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
He keeps saying we have no evidence ("You got NUTHIN!").
We keep PROVIDING evidence for evolution....
He replies with "You got NUTHIN!"
Reminds me of a quote from "Beverly Hillbillies":
Jed (referring to Jethro): "He couldn't pour sand out of his boot if you wrote the instructions on the heel."
Your evidence equates scraping the bottom of the barrel
As I have said previously, you, and others on this forum who will remain nameless, scream science, and then produce the most lacklustre weak and easily critiqued nonsense.
And the ducking and weaving leaves me incredulous

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#483 Nov 17, 2012
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Your evidence equates scraping the bottom of the barrel
As I have said previously, you, and others on this forum who will remain nameless, scream science, and then produce the most lacklustre weak and easily critiqued nonsense.
And the ducking and weaving leaves me incredulous
And what is it that you've provided besides denial of established FACTS? No evidence of your position (whatever THAT is)?

WHAT have you provided?

Oh yeah. That's right....

NUTHIN! You've got NUTHIN'!
Russell

Plympton, Australia

#484 Nov 17, 2012
PART 1

Hold your horses Kong
One thing at a time..
Lets talk evo-god worship stuff first.
I still have to chat about the Cambrian explosion and the total absence of transitional ancestors, Hox not withstanding.
Have you come across the work of geneticist Susumu Ohno? His paper "The notion of the Cambrian pananimalia genome" is rather unusual.
He suggested that Cambrian was of an "astonishingly short duration, lasting only 6-10 million years." He goes on to say "Inasmuch as only 1% DNA base sequence change is expected in 10 million years under the standard mutation rate, I propose that all those diverse animals of the early Cambrian period, some 550 million years ago, were endowed with nearly identical genomes, with differential usage of the same set of genes accounting for the extreme diversities of body forms".

What he is saying, and this is fascinating, is that mutations could not account for the diversification.

Aren't you surprised by that?
I am certain you are scratching your head, saying, "Hot damn, go figure!!" at this very moment.

Susumu Ohno, The notion of the Cambrian pananimalia genome, Proc Nati Acad Sci USA, 93:8475-8478, Aug 1996.

Since changes alleged to be due to natural selection working on genes could NOT account for the diversity of the Cambrian body plans, WHAT caused this diversity?

Since the Cambrian, there has been a wide diversity of genes...but no new phyla.

What an astonishing state of affairs?

And guess what?

It gets worse.

Some argue in favour for vacant ecological niches driving diversification, I know, I know, I'm shaking my head as well, since both you and I know that the vacant ecological niches provided by the Permian extinction "dated" at 250 Ma and the far worse Cretaceous extinction, said to have killed the dinosaurs 65 million years ago, led to NO new phyla. Indeed-- here's an elbow poke to your ribs-- 57% of all families, 83% of all genera were killed off, including 96% of marine species. Yet, no new phyla.

So clearly, we have a problem.
Not “us” specifically, of course, but the evo-god desperadoes, and I don't mind if you are one of them, I won't judge you at all.

Here in my continent the Adelaide hills provided the name for the Ediacaran fauna, from the Ediacaran period "dated" at 635-542 Ma.

So what?
I hear you say.

Patience...
Russell

Plympton, Australia

#485 Nov 17, 2012
PART 2

The Ediacaran pool included many soft bodied organisms, but sadly for the evo-god worshippers, none were ancestral to the Cambrian creatures.

Levinton, J, The Big Bang of Animal Explosion, Scientific American 267:84-91 Nov 1992.

Don't weep.
Save your tears for the next part. Hanky ready?

There is even an Avalon Explosion!!
A Few anticipatory tears are allowed now..

"A comprehensive quantitative analysis of these fossils indicates that the oldest Ediacara assemblage (5775 to 565 Ma) already encompassed the full range of Ediacaran morphospace."

Shen S, Dong L, Xiao, S and Kowalewski, M, The Avalon explosion: evolution of Ediacaran morphospace, Science 319:81-84, 2008.

Ok,, full flow of tears permitted now.

Handwringing can also start...now...

Thus evo-god worshippers have TWO explosions, that are unrelated, with NO evidence of evolutionary ancestry.

Some of my posts have gone missing
Perhaps a problem with scripts?
Not sure
Not too worried
Ha ha
Hope the game wasn't too disappointing?
(Distraction may help?)
Russell

Plympton, Australia

#486 Nov 17, 2012
Another point I would very much like to make in regard to the universe, well at the smaller end of the universe, is the amazingly consistent size of the sub-atomic particles. All electrons have the same mass and charge. And the exact opposite charge to all protons.

Maxwell, the great Scottish physicist, rather a famous man, a cretard, as you would lovingly refer to him... in a hopeless attempt to dilute the fright that scientists who defy your beliefs and produce magnificant science without evolution, induce in you.... said,

"No theory of evolution can be formed to account for the similarity of molecules, for evolution necessarily implies continuous change....The exact equality of each molecule to all others of the same kind gives it..the essential character of a manufactured article, and precludes the idea of its being eternal and self-existent."

Maxwell J C Discourse on Molecules, a paper presented to the Bristish Association at Bradford in 1873.

But what would he know? Right?

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#487 Nov 17, 2012
Russell wrote:
PART 1
Hold your horses Kong
One thing at a time..
Lets talk evo-god worship stuff first.
I still have to chat about the Cambrian explosion and the total absence of transitional ancestors, Hox not withstanding.
Have you come across the work of geneticist Susumu Ohno? His paper "The notion of the Cambrian pananimalia genome" is rather unusual.
He suggested that Cambrian was of an "astonishingly short duration, lasting only 6-10 million years." He goes on to say "Inasmuch as only 1% DNA base sequence change is expected in 10 million years under the standard mutation rate, I propose that all those diverse animals of the early Cambrian period, some 550 million years ago, were endowed with nearly identical genomes, with differential usage of the same set of genes accounting for the extreme diversities of body forms".
What he is saying, and this is fascinating, is that mutations could not account for the diversification.
Aren't you surprised by that?
I am certain you are scratching your head, saying, "Hot damn, go figure!!" at this very moment.
Susumu Ohno, The notion of the Cambrian pananimalia genome, Proc Nati Acad Sci USA, 93:8475-8478, Aug 1996.
Since changes alleged to be due to natural selection working on genes could NOT account for the diversity of the Cambrian body plans, WHAT caused this diversity?
Since the Cambrian, there has been a wide diversity of genes...but no new phyla.
What an astonishing state of affairs?
And guess what?
It gets worse.
Some argue in favour for vacant ecological niches driving diversification, I know, I know, I'm shaking my head as well, since both you and I know that the vacant ecological niches provided by the Permian extinction "dated" at 250 Ma and the far worse Cretaceous extinction, said to have killed the dinosaurs 65 million years ago, led to NO new phyla. Indeed-- here's an elbow poke to your ribs-- 57% of all families, 83% of all genera were killed off, including 96% of marine species. Yet, no new phyla.
So clearly, we have a problem.
Not “us” specifically, of course, but the evo-god desperadoes, and I don't mind if you are one of them, I won't judge you at all.
Here in my continent the Adelaide hills provided the name for the Ediacaran fauna, from the Ediacaran period "dated" at 635-542 Ma.
So what?
I hear you say.
Patience...
Ha! You say "One thing at a time", then trot out a half-dozen half-baked, and previously-refuted concepts of your own....WITHOUT answering my earlier question, might I add.

Can you say "Gish Gallop"?

There IS no "Evo-god" as you so ignorantly put it. Merely established SECULAR (note: Not "ATHEIST") science that threatens your weak Judeo-Christian faith.

Furthermore, your link to Susumu Ohno's "The notion of the Cambrian pananimalia genome" is NOT a refutation of the Theory of Evolution. It is discussion WITHIN the accepted science of the theory about some of the details.

"The Cambrian explosion denoting the almost simultaneous emergence of nearly all the extant phyla of the kingdom Animalia within the time span of 6-10 million years can't possibly be explained by mutual divergence of individual gene functions. Rather, it is more likely that all animals involved in the Cambrian explosion were endowed with nearly the identical genome, with enormous morphological diversities deisplayed by multituedes of animal phyla being due to differential usages of the identical set of genes. This is the very reason for my proposal of the Cambrain pananimalia genome. This tenome must have necessarily been related to those of Ediacarian predecessors, representing the phyla Porifera and Coelenterata, and possibly Annelida."

"The notion of the Cambrian pananimalia genome"
http://www.pnas.org/content/93/16/8475.full.p...

Your sources are LYING to you, because they know you don't have the nerve to check out the source for yourself.

You got NUTHIN'.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Indianapolis, IN

#488 Nov 17, 2012
Russell wrote:
PART 1
Hold your horses Kong
One thing at a time..
Lets talk evo-god worship stuff first.
I still have to chat about the Cambrian explosion and the total absence of transitional ancestors, Hox not withstanding.
Have you come across the work of geneticist Susumu Ohno? His paper "The notion of the Cambrian pananimalia genome" is rather unusual.
He suggested that Cambrian was of an "astonishingly short duration, lasting only 6-10 million years." He goes on to say "Inasmuch as only 1% DNA base sequence change is expected in 10 million years under the standard mutation rate, I propose that all those diverse animals of the early Cambrian period, some 550 million years ago, were endowed with nearly identical genomes, with differential usage of the same set of genes accounting for the extreme diversities of body forms".
What he is saying, and this is fascinating, is that mutations could not account for the diversification.
Aren't you surprised by that?
I am certain you are scratching your head, saying, "Hot damn, go figure!!" at this very moment.
Susumu Ohno, The notion of the Cambrian pananimalia genome, Proc Nati Acad Sci USA, 93:8475-8478, Aug 1996.
Since changes alleged to be due to natural selection working on genes could NOT account for the diversity of the Cambrian body plans, WHAT caused this diversity?
Since the Cambrian, there has been a wide diversity of genes...but no new phyla.
What an astonishing state of affairs?
And guess what?
It gets worse.
Some argue in favour for vacant ecological niches driving diversification, I know, I know, I'm shaking my head as well, since both you and I know that the vacant ecological niches provided by the Permian extinction "dated" at 250 Ma and the far worse Cretaceous extinction, said to have killed the dinosaurs 65 million years ago, led to NO new phyla. Indeed-- here's an elbow poke to your ribs-- 57% of all families, 83% of all genera were killed off, including 96% of marine species. Yet, no new phyla.
So clearly, we have a problem.
Not “us” specifically, of course, but the evo-god desperadoes, and I don't mind if you are one of them, I won't judge you at all.
Here in my continent the Adelaide hills provided the name for the Ediacaran fauna, from the Ediacaran period "dated" at 635-542 Ma.
So what?
I hear you say.
Patience...
What a waste of electrons. Ohno is a died-in-the-wool evolutionist. He would be the first to tell you you're full of shit.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Indianapolis, IN

#489 Nov 17, 2012
Russell wrote:
PART 2
The Ediacaran pool included many soft bodied organisms, but sadly for the evo-god worshippers, none were ancestral to the Cambrian creatures.
Levinton, J, The Big Bang of Animal Explosion, Scientific American 267:84-91 Nov 1992.
How about a link to this? I seriously doubt Levinton ever said this. Could you simply be lying?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Indianapolis, IN

#490 Nov 17, 2012
Russell wrote:
Another point I would very much like to make in regard to the universe, well at the smaller end of the universe, is the amazingly consistent size of the sub-atomic particles. All electrons have the same mass and charge. And the exact opposite charge to all protons.
Maxwell, the great Scottish physicist, rather a famous man, a cretard, as you would lovingly refer to him... in a hopeless attempt to dilute the fright that scientists who defy your beliefs and produce magnificant science without evolution, induce in you.... said,
"No theory of evolution can be formed to account for the similarity of molecules, for evolution necessarily implies continuous change....The exact equality of each molecule to all others of the same kind gives it..the essential character of a manufactured article, and precludes the idea of its being eternal and self-existent."
Maxwell J C Discourse on Molecules, a paper presented to the Bristish Association at Bradford in 1873.
But what would he know? Right?
A paper from 1873??? Are you shitting me? Next it'll be quotes from the old testament.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#491 Nov 17, 2012
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
How about a link to this? I seriously doubt Levinton ever said this. Could you simply be lying?
Here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/100080685/Levinton-...

As predicted, "Russell" is talking out of his ass.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Indianapolis, IN

#492 Nov 17, 2012
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/100080685/Levinton-...
As predicted, "Russell" is talking out of his ass.
NOOOOOOOO! Imagine my shock!

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#493 Nov 18, 2012
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Buck has gone, Christine
And he took every shred of evidence for evolution with him......
Its quite sad
Because
As far as evidence for evolution goes....
YOU GOT NUTHIN'
Don’t work like that, you see fact takes precedence over delusion and fantasy and I got fact on my side, all you got is delusion and fantasy – live with it..

When you learn to debate come back and try again.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#494 Nov 18, 2012
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Its very sweet, Kong
Maybe Christine would like it?
I definitely do not
Enjoy the game
That’s because you are deliberately ignorant.

Well done for highlighting that fact

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#495 Nov 18, 2012
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree about it having no bearing on the validity of evolution.
What fine words...no bearing on the validity of evolution...
Just that, a nice glass of wine, at the beach watching the sunset, after a hard day of surfing...
But that is not my question
I am refering to the uniformity of temperature throughout the universe as shown by CMB to within 1 part in 100,000. This would indicate that heat transfer occurred faster than the speed of light. At the alleged age of the universe light could only have traversed a tenth of the distance needed to equilibrate the temp. This horizon problem has not be solved.
Unless mathemathical fudges like 'inflation' are invented.
More irrelevancies?

What has the speed of light to with heat transfer?.

I believe this explains you confusion
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/horizon-eq....
Here is the explanation for that formula
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmology_f...
However I very much doubt that you will understand it even if you condescend to actually read it

The CMB is thermal radiation and very patch and random over the universe. The average temperature is a little over 2.73 degrees Kelvin, that’s 2.73 degrees above absolute zero. Which just happens to be the average temperature of the universe so what point are you trying to make?

Here is a map of the CMB
http://cosmology.berkeley.edu/Education/Cosmo...
Take a look and study it because there are some very interesting points that contradict you belief that goddidit

Firstly notice that although the average temperature is 2.73 you will distinctly see many random hotter and colder spots.

Next notice that huge colder spot just bottom left of centre and the series of colder spots bottom left of the map. The work of Dr Laura Mersini-Houghton helps explain these spots along with several other anomalies observable in the universe such as the portion that is moving in the opposite direction and you horizon problem.

It is no ones fault but you own that you are behind the times with your scientific knowledge however if you want to “debate” scientific evidence then I suppose it helps if you are actually aware of what you are talking about before you stick your foot in your mouth.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#496 Nov 18, 2012
Russell wrote:
Testing testing....
I'll bet since I'm winning, someone has colluded with the Mod to stymie my posts just so Evo-god whining looks unopposed and unchallenged.
Paranoia is the excuse of the delusional
Russell

Plympton, Australia

#497 Nov 18, 2012
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/100080685/Levinton-...
As predicted, "Russell" is talking out of his ass.
How does this link help your case?
It is the same as my quote, warts and all, has the same meaning, produces the same problem for the GTE, and is brilliant at showcasing your untenable position.

Evolutionary geneticists are asking why we are not dead 100 times over, and on this Forum, a debate, no less, I am proferred as knockdown evidence for evolution a.....dead bird.....
And then, I am called delusional.....

C'mon Kong, don't you find that funny?

and to top that, here's Christine, back after a failed search for Buck, trying to ejjerkate me about cosmology......

Worse and worse....
Russell

Plympton, Australia

#498 Nov 18, 2012
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
How about a link to this? I seriously doubt Levinton ever said this. Could you simply be lying?
asking for links to referenced work, tsp, tsp.
I am already spoon-feeding you, but that's not good enough?
You want to be drip fed.....
Well, it's not going to happen Bud
Russell

Plympton, Australia

#499 Nov 18, 2012
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
And liar for Jesus reality-denying YEC who abuses his thermo creds to promote GODDIDIT WITH MAGIC. He's also on tape saying Bible first, science second. Dork can be dismissed.
Hey The Dude, where've you been?
Some evo-god worship seminar? Learning how to tilt at windmills maybe?
So, the next time I'm in the UK would you like me to facilitate a meeting with the esteemed Prof?
I could swing by Birkenhead, pick you up, off to Leeds, and in less than two hours, you can tell him to his face..."Cretard" followed by how he's a liar and a dork. Then, present him with your evidence for evolution, "Mutations done it," followed by, "Dead bird".
He's quite an affable bloke, and I promise I won’t let him hurt you physically. AND, special treat. Tea and scones at Leeds castle afterwards, on me...
Yes, don’t say I don’t look after you.
Subduction Zone, THAT'S a YouTube clip I'd gladly watch.
Russell

Plympton, Australia

#500 Nov 18, 2012
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
More irrelevancies?
What has the speed of light to with heat transfer?.
I believe this explains you confusion
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/horizon-eq....
Here is the explanation for that formula
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmology_f...
However I very much doubt that you will understand it even if you condescend to actually read it
The CMB is thermal radiation and very patch and random over the universe. The average temperature is a little over 2.73 degrees Kelvin, that’s 2.73 degrees above absolute zero. Which just happens to be the average temperature of the universe so what point are you trying to make?
Here is a map of the CMB
http://cosmology.berkeley.edu/Education/Cosmo...
Take a look and study it because there are some very interesting points that contradict you belief that goddidit
Firstly notice that although the average temperature is 2.73 you will distinctly see many random hotter and colder spots.
Next notice that huge colder spot just bottom left of centre and the series of colder spots bottom left of the map. The work of Dr Laura Mersini-Houghton helps explain these spots along with several other anomalies observable in the universe such as the portion that is moving in the opposite direction and you horizon problem.
It is no ones fault but you own that you are behind the times with your scientific knowledge however if you want to “debate” scientific evidence then I suppose it helps if you are actually aware of what you are talking about before you stick your foot in your mouth.
Nothing from Readers Digest?

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#501 Nov 18, 2012
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
How does this link help your case?
It is the same as my quote, warts and all, has the same meaning, produces the same problem for the GTE, and is brilliant at showcasing your untenable position.
Evolutionary geneticists are asking why we are not dead 100 times over, and on this Forum, a debate, no less, I am proferred as knockdown evidence for evolution a.....dead bird.....
And then, I am called delusional.....
C'mon Kong, don't you find that funny?
and to top that, here's Christine, back after a failed search for Buck, trying to ejjerkate me about cosmology....
Worse and worse....
Ummmm.....this helps my case in that it refutes YOUR case.

You said that Levinton claimed:
Russell wrote:
<quoted text> The Ediacaran pool included many soft bodied organisms, but sadly for the evo-god worshippers, none were ancestral to the Cambrian creatures.
Now please go to the actual article you referenced:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/100080685/Levinton-...

...and tell us all where Levinton says that there were no animals(soft-bodied or otherwise) ancestral to the Cambrian organisms.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Evolution Debate Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Evolution vs. Creation (Jul '11) 12 min NoahLikesPi 187,563
News "Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really T... (Jan '12) 22 min thetruth 27,455
News Atheism, for Good Reason, Fears Questions (Jun '09) 25 min thetruth 6,254
News It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in e... (Mar '09) 1 hr macumazahn 148,465
News Should evolution be taught in high school? (Feb '08) 5 hr polymath257 179,501
Will Gravitational Waves Reveal the Origin of t... 5 hr Critical Eye 10
News This year's first batch of anti-science educati... Fri Critical Eye 7
More from around the web