British Ban Teaching Creationism As S...

British Ban Teaching Creationism As Science, Should The U.S. Do The Same?

There are 164 comments on the Outside the Beltway story from Jun 24, 2014, titled British Ban Teaching Creationism As Science, Should The U.S. Do The Same?. In it, Outside the Beltway reports that:

"The parties acknowledge that clauses 2.43 and 2.44 of the Funding Agreement [which preclude the teaching of pseudoscience and require the teaching of evolution] apply to all academies.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Outside the Beltway.

FREE SERVANT

Fairfax, VA

#22 Jul 17, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually I did not say that. However if I did offer that opinion, it is only your opinion that it is not good.
However in my opinion anything that is factually inaccurate is not good. And it is a fact that pseudo-scientific literalistic creationism is factually inaccurate.
You are entitled to an opinion about the evidence you have been presented so far. I have a problem with doors being shut and assumptions being made that no evidence has or ever will be found for a Creator, and this will cause future generations to believe certain things that have not been proven factual.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#23 Jul 17, 2014
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>You are entitled to an opinion about the evidence you have been presented so far. I have a problem with doors being shut and assumptions being made that no evidence has or ever will be found for a Creator, and this will cause future generations to believe certain things that have not been proven factual.
But no objective evidence has been presented for a creator at this site. At best your side has found flawed arguments against evolution. You are employing a false dichotomy.

What evidence, if any, do you have for a creator?
FREE SERVANT

Fairfax, VA

#24 Jul 17, 2014
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
But no objective evidence has been presented for a creator at this site. At best your side has found flawed arguments against evolution. You are employing a false dichotomy.
What evidence, if any, do you have for a creator?
I have enough evidence for myself that proves to me the God of the Bible is our Creator and that there was a hill of the skull on which a cross was carried by a bearded man in green Roman marine long sleeved clothing and a man with a red hat and a red coat and red shoes also placed a square object upon that hill. I have an agate stone with that picture in it. I know the way I got this agate stone was a miracle because I found it just in time to have it mounted on my bible related twist cane, and it would take a lot of time for me to tell about it, so I will just say that I know beyond any doubt that God is real and nothing can convince me otherwise. Some other people may not see it as I do, but I see it clearly and maybe it was just meant for me.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#25 Jul 17, 2014
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>I have enough evidence for myself that proves to me the God of the Bible is our Creator and that there was a hill of the skull on which a cross was carried by a bearded man in green Roman marine long sleeved clothing and a man with a red hat and a red coat and red shoes also placed a square object upon that hill. I have an agate stone with that picture in it. I know the way I got this agate stone was a miracle because I found it just in time to have it mounted on my bible related twist cane, and it would take a lot of time for me to tell about it, so I will just say that I know beyond any doubt that God is real and nothing can convince me otherwise. Some other people may not see it as I do, but I see it clearly and maybe it was just meant for me.
I think you may have given us too much information as it is. No one is trying to convince you about the existence of God. You can even view the Bible literally. You can't decide how the rest of the world is going to work based on your personal views.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#26 Jul 17, 2014
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>I have enough evidence for myself that proves to me the God of the Bible is our Creator and that there was a hill of the skull on which a cross was carried by a bearded man in green Roman marine long sleeved clothing and a man with a red hat and a red coat and red shoes also placed a square object upon that hill. I have an agate stone with that picture in it. I know the way I got this agate stone was a miracle because I found it just in time to have it mounted on my bible related twist cane, and it would take a lot of time for me to tell about it, so I will just say that I know beyond any doubt that God is real and nothing can convince me otherwise. Some other people may not see it as I do, but I see it clearly and maybe it was just meant for me.
You have subjective evidence at best. Your agate only has a pattern that you recognize. Many people would not see what you do. What you see is affected by your own prejudice.

What the heck is a "Roman marine"? You know what you want to believe and you force yourself to see that in your stone, nothing more. It is not a miracle. Real evidence will affect others, not just you and your friends.

So do you have any evidence at all or do you only have nonsense?
FREE SERVANT

Fairfax, VA

#27 Jul 17, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>I think you may have given us too much information as it is. No one is trying to convince you about the existence of God. You can even view the Bible literally. You can't decide how the rest of the world is going to work based on your personal views.
I am not making any decisions other that my own. I am just giving my side of the story.
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#28 Jul 17, 2014
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>You are entitled to an opinion about the evidence you have been presented so far.
Don't worry, I have a tendency to distinguish when I'm presenting opinions and facts. If you have a query about which specific statements are which I can clarify.
FREE SERVANT wrote:
I have a problem with doors being shut and assumptions being made
If that were true you wouldn't be a creationist.

However we ASK YOU ALL THE TIME for evidence. And your people have been asked for CENTURIES.

You always run away. Without fail.
FREE SERVANT wrote:
that no evidence has or ever will be found for a Creator, and this will cause future generations to believe certain things that have not been proven factual.
It's possible that in the future that maybe evidence WILL be found of a creator. Science is perfectly open to the possibility. It's just that as of RIGHT NOW the concept is a non-falsifiable, and therefore non-scientific concept.
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#29 Jul 17, 2014
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>I have enough evidence for myself that proves to me the God of the Bible is our Creator and that there was a hill of the skull on which a cross was carried by a bearded man in green Roman marine long sleeved clothing and a man with a red hat and a red coat and red shoes also placed a square object upon that hill. I have an agate stone with that picture in it. I know the way I got this agate stone was a miracle because I found it just in time to have it mounted on my bible related twist cane, and it would take a lot of time for me to tell about it, so I will just say that I know beyond any doubt that God is real and nothing can convince me otherwise. Some other people may not see it as I do, but I see it clearly and maybe it was just meant for me.
If it was just meant for you then it's not evidence. Evidence must be able to be verified objectively.

And we still don't care about that rock that hit you on the head.
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#32 Jul 18, 2014
Cordwainer Trout wrote:
Hasn't science been trying to CREATE primordial soup and resultant life for at least the last half century? What are they going to teach if they ever have any success, evolution, or creationism?
The Theory of Evolution and biochemical abiogenesis are two different fields of study. HOWEVER life first began, it has subsequently evolved and continues to evolve. That isn't even VAGUELY controversial in science.

And when abiogenesis experiments succeed, they will demonstrate that, under the right conditions on the early earth, life assembled itself biochemically. Certainly no need for your Jesus in the process.
Cordwainer Trout wrote:
Marxist creeps do like to think of themselves as gods, sucking the brains out of little babies in the womb for their own convenience, irresponsibility and lust. Apparently, one needs to firmly believe they are nothing but animal to do that.
??? Whackjob nonsense.

Try telling it to the evangelical Christians at Baylor University, the "largest Baptist University in the world," where the students go on mission trips, etc.

This is from the Biology Department at Baylor:
http://www.baylor.edu/biology/index.php...

Statement on Evolution
"Evolution, a foundational principle of modern biology, is supported by overwhelming scientific evidence and is accepted by the vast majority of scientists. Because it is fundamental to the understanding of modern biology, the faculty in the Biology Department at Baylor University, Waco, TX, teach evolution throughout the biology curriculum. We are in accordance with the American Association for Advancement of Science's statement on evolution. We are a science department, so we do not teach alternative hypotheses or philosophically deduced theories that cannot be tested rigorously."

Also, here from the Baylor Geology Department:
http://www.baylor.edu/geology/index.php...

Quote:

"Question: Does the fossil record support the idea of biological change over time (biological evolution)?

Yes. The fossil record clearly indicates...

• a progression in complexity of organisms from very simple fossil forms in the oldest rocks (>3.5 billion years old) to a broad spectrum from simple to complex forms in younger rocks,

• that some organisms that were once common are now extinct, and

• that the living organisms inhabiting our world today are similar (but generally not the same) as organisms represented as fossils in young sedimentary deposits, which in turn have evolutionary ancestors represented as fossils in yet older rocks.

Mammals, for example, are prevalent today and can be traced back in the fossil record for approximately 200 million years, but are not present as mammals in the fossil record before that; however, fossil forms that have reasonably been interpreted to be associated with the evolutionary precursors to mammals are found in older rocks.

Whether biological evolution occurs has not been a matter of scientific debate for more than a century. It is considered a proven fact."

End quote
In Six Days

Llansantffraid, UK

#33 Jul 21, 2014
Liam R wrote:
This is a GREAT idea! Private schools are still free to teach any drivel they want, as long as they are not accepting taxpayer money to do so. If taxes are paying for it, a school should be required to teach REAL science.
That's why we have private schools, to protect kids from Goverment sanctioned lies.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#34 Jul 21, 2014
In Six Days wrote:
<quoted text>
That's why we have private schools, to protect kids from Goverment sanctioned lies.
MOST private schools teach the Theory of Evolution, and other valid science.

But, we WILL need a ready supply of readily available workers for the fast-food and sanitation industries, so please encourage your 'flock' to disregard a proper education.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#35 Jul 21, 2014
In Six Days wrote:
<quoted text>
That's why we have private schools, to protect kids from Goverment sanctioned lies.
What are you talking about?

The old government sanctioned lies of creationism are now illegal. Evolution itself is a proven fact.
In Six Days

Llansantffraid, UK

#36 Jul 21, 2014
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
MOST private schools teach the Theory of Evolution, and other valid science.
But, we WILL need a ready supply of readily available workers for the fast-food and sanitation industries, so please encourage your 'flock' to disregard a proper education.
You people to spit in your coffee take-away?
In Six Days

Llansantffraid, UK

#37 Jul 21, 2014
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
What are you talking about?
The old government sanctioned lies of creationism are now illegal. Evolution itself is a proven fact.
You they are lying when start saying they can prove the past, straight out of George Orwell that is. Next they'll be proving the future & guess what, the masses will believe it too.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#38 Jul 21, 2014
In Six Days wrote:
<quoted text>
You they are lying when start saying they can prove the past, straight out of George Orwell that is. Next they'll be proving the future & guess what, the masses will believe it too.
No, it is fair simple. If you got rid of your prejudice even you would have to admit that they are right.

So do you wish to learn or not?

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#39 Jul 21, 2014
In Six Days wrote:
<quoted text>
You people to spit in your coffee take-away?
How an individual takes his/her coffee is a personal choice.

You do not, however, get to choose reality.
WE have the facts, you do not.

BTW, most Christians are not YEC's. MOST Christians also accept the findings of science and can reconcile this with their faith in God.

You are on the extreme fringe.
In Six Days

Llansantffraid, UK

#40 Jul 21, 2014
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it is fair simple. If you got rid of your prejudice even you would have to admit that they are right.
So do you wish to learn or not?
You don't know the half of it, I am very, very prejudiced against lies and I ain't getting rid of that prejudice anytime soon. I do not tolerate lies.

What do you want to learn me it's not evolution is it? Out with it, more lies but don't worry I'll correct & deprogramme you.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#41 Jul 21, 2014
In Six Days wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't know the half of it, I am very, very prejudiced against lies and I ain't getting rid of that prejudice anytime soon. I do not tolerate lies.
What do you want to learn me it's not evolution is it? Out with it, more lies but don't worry I'll correct & deprogramme you.
Not so. You have used claims that come from proven lying sources. It is rather obvious that you cannot tell what is a lie or not.

You need to learn some very basic science first. How about that we start with geology and why we know there was no flood? By the way, I don't need to lie, the facts are on my side.
In Six Days

Llansantffraid, UK

#42 Jul 21, 2014
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
How an individual takes his/her coffee is a personal choice.
You do not, however, get to choose reality.
WE have the facts, you do not.
BTW, most Christians are not YEC's. MOST Christians also accept the findings of science and can reconcile this with their faith in God.
You are on the extreme fringe.
Somebody ought to have taught how to think, I suggest you study the Bible because it's full of reasoned statements.

If ALL not most but ALL Christians believed the earth was billions of years old would that make it billions of years old? Of course not, it would still be age it is. So stop measuring the age of the earth by counting Christians, it's not very clever.

Don't patronise me by saying some Christians accept science & reconcile this with their faith. It's nonsense. Faith is trust in something one has reason to believe is true whether scientific, political, theological or marital. Don't recycle me the bull that faith only applies to the Bible. Unless you have researched things for yourself, you believe science by faith. Specifically, you think the earth is billions of years old on blind faith - I dare you. You heard from someone & believed it!

Most atheists blindly accept the findings of uncritical scientists. YEC check the scientific claims before accepting them like bird hatchlings in a nest. That's why we know the earth is not old & there's no scientific evidence for an old earth.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#43 Jul 21, 2014
In Six Days wrote:
<quoted text>
Somebody ought to have taught how to think, I suggest you study the Bible because it's full of reasoned statements.
If ALL not most but ALL Christians believed the earth was billions of years old would that make it billions of years old? Of course not, it would still be age it is. So stop measuring the age of the earth by counting Christians, it's not very clever.
Don't patronise me by saying some Christians accept science & reconcile this with their faith. It's nonsense. Faith is trust in something one has reason to believe is true whether scientific, political, theological or marital. Don't recycle me the bull that faith only applies to the Bible. Unless you have researched things for yourself, you believe science by faith. Specifically, you think the earth is billions of years old on blind faith - I dare you. You heard from someone & believed it!
Most atheists blindly accept the findings of uncritical scientists. YEC check the scientific claims before accepting them like bird hatchlings in a nest. That's why we know the earth is not old & there's no scientific evidence for an old earth.
So you accept (among other biblical claims):

Talking snakes (serpents) and donkeys
A global flood 4500 (+/-) years ago -- despite having NO evidence (and Christian Geologists were searching for JUST THAT EVIDENCE, but were unable to find any),
A man living in the belly of a 'great fish' for 3 days
The sun and moon stopping in the middle of the sky for 3 days
Man being created from dust/clay, and woman being created from man's rib
The earth, and plants ON the earth being created BEFORE the sun
A woman being turned into a pillar of salt

....and I could go on for dozens more.

....ALL WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER.

You want to go toe-to-toe regarding 'evidence' supporting our respective world views?

Note: The Bible is not considered a source of 'evidence'. The Bible contains unsupported assertions that are dependent upon 'faith' for acceptance, with just a few references to actual known historical and geographical realities.

Everything YOU believe to be true about the Bible is because Preacher Bob or your parents said what the Bible said was true. Don't patronize ME.

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