Teach evolution as the fact it is

Jan 13, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Courier-Journal

The opening salvo in the evolution wars was fired in Kentucky. In 1922, it was the first state to consider a law banning the teaching of evolution in the public schools.

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21 - 40 of 41 Comments Last updated Jan 23, 2013

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

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#21 Jan 17, 2013
The judaism forum is also involved with the issue
Frijoles:
Science does not work with the notion of "correct" - it looks at competing explanations and selects the best (i.e. most likely) based on an analysis of data (i.e. evidence) and than couches their conclusions in terms of probibility (i.e. estimates how likely their explanation fits the data).
In science one is not only always seeking data driven explanations, but refining those explanations. Its the "refining process" that you are alluding to when you say that science is always contradicting itself, or that science is correcting itself.
Its not an either/or. Its a question of best, with a statistical qualification.
Bible thumpers who grow up with rigid either/or categorical modes of thinking have a problem with this notion. They tend to be hung up on binary categories - correct/wrong, with the bible as the process to provde the standard, not data driven analytical analysis
For Creationism to be a valid scientific construct, it should be 1) data driven,
2) hypothesis tested, and
3) statistically qualified.
As far as I am aware, in the broad sense, Creationism has never been able to withstand these processes. Therefore, Creationism is an ideology, not a scientific discipline.
If you want to teach ideology(religion) along side with science in schools, than that is certainly your right in a private school. But dont call Creationism science, because it isnt. Intelligent Design is not science, it is junk science, for the reasons expounded above in the previous paragraph.

The next issues to understand would be the dating process.
wiki Radiocarbon dating
Age of the Earth

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

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#22 Jan 18, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
No job is always better than a dishonest job, loser.
What's dishonest about maintaining critical thinking is important in every aspect of study, including science? Think critically about creationism, Intelligent Design and evolution; then you'll learn the truth.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#23 Jan 18, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>What's dishonest about maintaining critical thinking is important in every aspect of study, including science? Think critically about creationism, Intelligent Design and evolution; then you'll learn the truth.
Spreading false information is lying, that is dishonest.

“I am evolving as fast as I can”

Since: Jan 08

Brooklyn, in Dayton OH now

#24 Jan 18, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>What's dishonest about maintaining critical thinking is important in every aspect of study, including science? Think critically about creationism, Intelligent Design and evolution; then you'll learn the truth.
We do, which is why we reject Creationism and Intelligent Design as scienctific subjects. They belong on the same shelf in the bookstore as Phrenology, Feng Shui, and Astrology.

Care to explain how they are scientific subjects? So far no one else has been able to ... oh their are claims that they are science, but no one has been able to do more than dress them up in an ill fitting lab coat and make unsupported claims! Care to do any better?

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

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#25 Jan 18, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
Spreading false information is lying, that is dishonest.
Only if you know the information is false; else it's making a mistake, not lying. As far as I know, I've never posted false information.

I don't call my political opponents liars; if they say something I know is wrong, I say they are mistaken. This is where we differ.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

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#26 Jan 18, 2013
TedHOhio wrote:
We do, which is why we reject Creationism and Intelligent Design as scienctific subjects. They belong on the same shelf in the bookstore as Phrenology, Feng Shui, and Astrology. Care to explain how they are scientific subjects?
I believe Ted is right about classifying Creationism and Intelligent Design with pseudoscience.

.
TedHOhio wrote:
So far no one else has been able to ... oh their are claims that they are science, but no one has been able to do more than dress them up in an ill fitting lab coat and make unsupported claims! Care to do any better?
All science should be subject to critical thought, even evolution. Evolution is a better theory than Creationism and Intelligent Design but that'e because the theory has been tested and improved.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#27 Jan 18, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Only if you know the information is false; else it's making a mistake, not lying. As far as I know, I've never posted false information.
I don't call my political opponents liars; if they say something I know is wrong, I say they are mistaken. This is where we differ.
No, we differ in the fact that I learn from my mistakes when corrected, you do not. That is what makes your "information" lies.
MIDutch

Waterford, MI

#28 Jan 18, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>What's dishonest about maintaining critical thinking is important in every aspect of study, including science? Think critically about creationism, Intelligent Design and evolution; then you'll learn the truth.
Science has KNOWN the scientific "truth" for around 150+ years now, and it certainly isn't found in a bronze age collection of goat herder myths, fables and FAIRY TALES.

Critical thinking is why pretty much everyone around the world outside of your bronze age FAIRY TALE CULT laugh at you guys.

“Al Qur'an is Revolution ”

Since: Oct 12

Islam is Future

#29 Jan 19, 2013
evolution theory isn't good for me.. still 'absurd' in many cases :)

“Al Qur'an is Revolution ”

Since: Oct 12

Islam is Future

#30 Jan 19, 2013
there is a 'missing-link' in this theory..still not perfect.. i still cannot find the linked-system.. blur :)

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#31 Jan 19, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Steph, you are a guppy among a school of sharks. Get an education so you can at least argue against the Theory of Evolution with some valid points.
So far you've not presented any.
Neither have you presented any evidence whatsoever. My statement wasn't an arguement it was something I realized when evolution is pushed down our throats. Why may we not question illogic and I know you may not know this but not all of my posts are arguments that was my opinion if you didn't realize. The whole world believes in evolution because it is like a fashion, no one may question it because I won't offend that brilliant man. I am not like that. I love to question theories of creationism too but because that scientist says so IT MUST BE TRUE... why?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#32 Jan 19, 2013
Stefooch wrote:
<quoted text>Neither have you presented any evidence whatsoever. My statement wasn't an arguement it was something I realized when evolution is pushed down our throats. Why may we not question illogic and I know you may not know this but not all of my posts are arguments that was my opinion if you didn't realize. The whole world believes in evolution because it is like a fashion, no one may question it because I won't offend that brilliant man. I am not like that. I love to question theories of creationism too but because that scientist says so IT MUST BE TRUE... why?
Because all of the scientific evidence out there supports evolution and not creationism. There has been no evidence posted on this thread but there has been evidence posted on others. And don't tell me that you haven't seen any. Do we have to explain evidence to you too?

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#33 Jan 20, 2013
Islamic Scientist wrote:
there is a 'missing-link' in this theory..still not perfect.. i still cannot find the linked-system.. blur :)
The flaw in your thinking is that you think you know what perfect is, yet you cannot demonstrate it. Well, lucky for you some of us atheists can help demonstrate what perfect is.

Perfect is ever changing, ever adapting, and ever improving, much like scientific advancement and the scientific understanding of the universe. Things evolve, we now know how and why, we're working on the lineages now, which will always have portions that are incomplete because not all evidence is preserved. But it's a perfect theory, why? Because it's the only theory that has survived the most scrutiny and the test of time with the least number of corrections? Nope. It's the perfect theory because it keeps offering us more insights into how things work, it has given us the groundwork to improve our technology, medicine, even things as simple as city planning. The more things we discover that this theory can benefit, the more perfect it becomes. No, it's not perfect because it's complete, it's perfect because there is so much more about it we can learn. Anything we know everything about is ... well, not perfect, such as the bible or the Koran, or whatever religious mythology you ascribe to. Because a bunch of people already know it all.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#34 Jan 20, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Only if you know the information is false; else it's making a mistake, not lying. As far as I know, I've never posted false information.
You made out that Ricky Santorum was not a promoter of pseudo-science, even AFTER we posted video evidence to the contrary.
Brian_G wrote:
I don't call my political opponents liars; if they say something I know is wrong, I say they are mistaken. This is where we differ.
Of course. That's because you're a liar and you know it. Your only choice is to act like a political stoolie and pretend to sound reasonable while lying your azz off. I call my opponents liars not because they are simply mistaken, but because they are liars.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#35 Jan 20, 2013
Islamic Scientist wrote:
there is a 'missing-link' in this theory..still not perfect.. i still cannot find the linked-system.. blur :)
This is why no-one cares about your baseless opinions. You are not educated enough to discuss the subject.

:)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#36 Jan 20, 2013
Stefooch wrote:
Neither have you presented any evidence whatsoever.
Well silly us for thinking you were capable of using a computer. Then we remembered you are a creationist:

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/T9Q...
Stefooch wrote:
My statement wasn't an arguement it was something I realized when evolution is pushed down our throats. Why may we not question illogic and I know you may not know this but not all of my posts are arguments that was my opinion if you didn't realize. The whole world believes in evolution because it is like a fashion, no one may question it because I won't offend that brilliant man.
150 years of being in fashion. Most other fashions come and go.

Evolution is a working scientific theory.

Jeans are good pants.

Both are here to stay. Deal with it. Fashion can go fk itself.(shrug)
Stefooch wrote:
I am not like that. I love to question theories of creationism too but because that scientist says so IT MUST BE TRUE... why?
Because that is the modus operandi of creationism - take religious apologetics, call it science, and lay it on thick to the gullible. That is why you think the words "theory" and "creationism" are compatible. Scientifically speaking they are diametrically opposed.

So uh, why not skip the BS and just come right out and say that you don't believe in evolution cuz you think Goddidit with magic cuz the Bible iz troo cuz the Bible sez so? Everyone knows that's why. And it would save a lot of time.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#37 Jan 21, 2013
Islamic Scientist wrote:
evolution theory isn't good for me.. still 'absurd' in many cases :)
In the theory of evolution as in theory of gravity the theory describes the fact

However if you have any evidence to throw doubt on the theory then may I suggest you mention it rather than simply looking foolish
Islamic Scientist wrote:
there is a 'missing-link' in this theory..still not perfect.. i still cannot find the linked-system.. blur :)
There is no “missing link”, the theory is complete, the fact is complete in an unbroken fossil chain for around 6 million years. If we want to talk about DNA then human elements of DNA can be found in a 46 million year old rodent.

“Al Qur'an is Revolution ”

Since: Oct 12

Islam is Future

#38 Jan 21, 2013
Stefooch wrote:
Yes but if we only teach facts there would be no theory of evolution because that theory consists of SPECULATION
SPECULATION.. i mean it :)

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#39 Jan 22, 2013
Islamic Scientist wrote:
<quoted text>
SPECULATION.. i mean it :)
FACT, I know it,

Evolution can be seen happening today in various species from mammals right down to bacteria. It can be seen happening in history in the fossil record. It can be seen in genetic commonalties between species and the universality of the genetic makeup, It can be seen in DNA itself. It can be seen in the similarity of chordate embryos, the spine, gills (yes even human embryos have gills), tail (and you still have a tail)

Now lets see if we can find any evidence to say god did it 6000 years ago (or anytime if that’s not convenient), looking… looking… nope can’t find anything.

How about you, can you show us any evidence.

P.S. the qur’an, babble and even the original goddidit book from which the qur’an and babble are based, the tanakh is not evidence, neither are it’s copies.

You see that’s where the credibility of the goddidit band falls down,(apart from the obvious ignorance and stupidity) is the one document that tells them that goddidit, the tanakh, is on more than one point proven to be fiction.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#40 Jan 22, 2013
Islamic Scientist wrote:
<quoted text>
SPECULATION.. i mean it :)
I gave you facts and a testable theory that works. I see you were unable to address it.

This is why you're not taken seriously.

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