Is there any historical evidence of c...

Is there any historical evidence of creation other than Bible?

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Jason

Ellenwood, GA

#1 Dec 11, 2007
Is there any historical evidence of creation other than Bible? Like, have anybody found the ship of Noah.

Level 7

Since: Sep 07

United States

#2 Dec 11, 2007
Nope.

Even some very minor thought exercises show the Great Flood is a complete myth.

For example: If the flood killed off the dinosaurs and everything else that was alive on Earth at the time, why did all the dinosaur fossils clump together? Why aren't mammoth and zebra and kangaroo fossils found mixed in with dinosaurs? Did the water magically sort all the dead bodies?
Tyler

Florence, SC

#3 Dec 11, 2007
There is a man who has found the real mount Siani where moses went up to get the ten commandments.

I do believe that part of the reason that the were not mixed together is due to the fact that they lived in different areas and i believe they do find different types of animals together but that they do not care so much for the other animals as much as the dinosaurs.
belkins

New Rochelle, NY

#4 Dec 11, 2007
First off scientists of various disciplines - look at all the evidence, they dont just look at dinosaurs. Only creationists limit the evidence they look at.

the facts are - that no animals/dinosaurs etc. clumped together, or were layed down in any way that would resembled a flood.

the lighter species did not float to the top but were layed down exactly as they should have been in the strata of their correct time. and then there all the fossilized nests that were not disrupted either. but instead we find complete nests, with the eggs all nice a safe.

there is so much evidence that counters the notion of a world flood its not even funny anymore.

another thing, how did only marsupials end up on the Australian land mass after Noah let allthe animals loose? How did the sloth out run the predators on its thousands mile journey back to south america, and across the sea??? Do you know how slow those F'ers are? They move so slow they grow moss! You think the local preadators on their journery home would have let just walk by?(oh right god escorted them home...right)

and that plants that were drowned, just sprang back to life after the deluge...yeah right. and that geographic-specific animals, etc didnt end up on the other side of the planet...
belkins

New Rochelle, NY

#5 Dec 11, 2007
and plenty of cultures have their creation myths. the thing is the christian version has been the most succesful! thats it.
Tyler

Florence, SC

#6 Dec 11, 2007
Things do not have to be ripped to pieces and destroyed for there to have been a global flood i dont doubt that there are percectly fossilized nests, there are also fossils found of fish in the process of eating other fish. things can be fossilized without being crushed.

If the animals where laid down in the strata of their time then one would have to bring up the petrafied trees that stick up through the different layers. It shows that the trees floated to the top of the water got water logged then fell to the bottom and where petrified through many different layers as the layers settled.

there is one idea of a universal land mass so that all the animals were able to get to all the various places around the world and that the land shifted after the fload

it is true that it would have taken a lot of time for the sloth to get all the way there but you are thinking of the sloth in the state that it is now but i believe that when noah brought all the animals he did not have to bring individual species like german shepard and lab but that he just broght one dog kind and then they speciated out. i am not saying they evolved and became more advanced but that as they spread out certain traits became better for different places. all that to say that they speciated out and that they did not just immediatly head for where they are now but that they did it over time and that their population migrated there over time as the climate changed.

Level 7

Since: Sep 07

United States

#7 Dec 11, 2007
Tyler wrote:
There is a man who has found the real mount Siani where moses went up to get the ten commandments.
I do believe that part of the reason that the were not mixed together is due to the fact that they lived in different areas and i believe they do find different types of animals together but that they do not care so much for the other animals as much as the dinosaurs.
So your hypothesis is this:

"Dinosaur fossils and mammal fossils are not found together because, though they lived at the same time, they lived in different areas from one another."

Here's how you would test that hypothesis:

Are there any dinosaur fossils and mammal fossils at the same location but in different layers of sediment?

The answer is, yes.

So, since both sets of fossils exist in the same area, but different layers there are two possible answers:

1) Dinosaurs and mammals did not live at the same time.

2) Dinosaurs and mammals did live at the same time, but the magical waters of the flood managed to magically sort the bodies before depositing them in the mud.

Which do you think makes more sense?

As for Moses -
Moses is not Noah. It's entirely possible that Moses was a real person. That does not, however, inform us at all about the Flood.

Level 7

Since: Sep 07

United States

#8 Dec 11, 2007
Tyler wrote:
... i believe that when noah brought all the animals he did not have to bring individual species like german shepard and lab but that he just broght one dog kind and then they speciated out. i am not saying they evolved and became more advanced but that as they spread out certain traits became better for different places.
So, they didn't "evolve" they "speciated"? Are you aware the speciation is a result of evolution?

Your use of the word "advanced" indicates to me that you think evolution is pointing towards a goal. That is false.

Evolution doesn't care about "advanced", evolution cares about success.

If the alligator is successful, there's little push for it to change.
Tyler wrote:
...they did not just immediatly head for where they are now but that they did it over time and that their population migrated there over time as the climate changed.
Well there are several problems with that theory, aren't there.

First off, why would ALL the marsupials head as a group to Australia and NONE of the placental mammals go with them?

But, that's minor compared to this -
If Noah brought 2 "cat types" representing the forefathers of lions, tigers, panthers what did they eat?

I figure a lion can go a week or two without food, but after that, they're in real trouble.

But, with only 2 deer, if the lion eats one of them - poof, no more deer.

Ditto bears, alligators, pythons, wolves, etc. All those predators need to eat, and with only 2 prey animals available, we've got a real problem.

Of course, all these problems go away if you just say, "What a sec. Maybe the story of the Flood is meant to convey MEANING not FACT. Maybe the Flood is a metaphor."

But, who would believe that? I mean other than the vast majority of Christians.
Tyler

Florence, SC

#9 Dec 12, 2007
I was not saying that dinosaurs and mamals lived in different areas but that the spread out over the earth and were not all living in a concentrated area. But you are saying that dinosaurs and mamals are in different layers because they lived at different times. Could you give me an example of that please. How do you explain the foot prints of man and dinosaur next to each other at the bottom of that river bed near Glen Rose, Texas

Your and my definition of evolution might be different. I believe that it evolution is when there is an increase in information. So speciezation is not evolution, it is not an increase in information, it is just a narrowing of it. We speciate dogs all the time and make new breeds but we do not call that evolution.

Who said that the Placental mamals would not go with them? I never said there was an order to it but i was explaning with the marsupials. I would think that they would all spread out together not one at a time.

Hahaha that is pretty funny to think about the animals running out of food because they ate each other. But there are a theory for that. I believe that the animals were brought on when they were still young so they would not eat that much. I mean really how would you get all of those animals in the arch if they were full grown. Some also say that they might not have been eating each other yet.
MDRoamer

United States

#10 Dec 12, 2007
Tyler wrote:
There is a man who has found the real mount Siani where moses went up to get the ten commandments.
I do believe that part of the reason that the were not mixed together is due to the fact that they lived in different areas and i believe they do find different types of animals together but that they do not care so much for the other animals as much as the dinosaurs.
Why do you find it necessary to continually switch names? Time after time, I've seen the same pattern - two individuals, either both from Atlanta, or one from Atlanta and one from Marietta, between them conducting an exercise in sophistry. Why don't you stick with a single name, like, say, Robert?
Tyler

Florence, SC

#11 Dec 12, 2007
i dont really know what you are talking about there maybe there is a bunch of us from he same area doing the same thing

Level 7

Since: Sep 07

United States

#13 Dec 12, 2007
Tyler wrote:
...How do you explain the foot prints of man and dinosaur next to each other at the bottom of that river bed near Glen Rose, Texas...
If you'd seen those fossils you would not be asking the question.

The footprints in the river bed are clearly not human. They are dinosaurs.
Tyler wrote:
...
Your and my definition of evolution might be different...
That may be, but my definition is the one that science is using.
Tyler wrote:
...
I believe that it evolution is when there is an increase in information. So speciezation is not evolution, it is not an increase in information, it is just a narrowing of it...
You are using "increase in information" as part of your definition for evolution. Can you define and give an example of "increase in information"?

Additionally, the fact that you choose to define evolution a certain way does not mean that that definition is correct.

For example, I choose to define "Jesus" as a unicorn that farts rainbows. As such, much of the Bible doesn't make any sense at all. Could it be that my definition is wrong?
Tyler wrote:
...
We speciate dogs all the time and make new breeds but we do not call that evolution.
All dogs are the same species. That's why we don't call it evolution. It's not.
Tyler wrote:
...
Who said that the Placental mamals would not go with them? I never said there was an order to it but i was explaning with the marsupials. I would think that they would all spread out together not one at a time.
The point is, according to the flood myth, all the kangaroos, wombats and other marsupials headed right for Australia while none of the placental mammals did.
Tyler wrote:
...
Hahaha that is pretty funny to think about the animals running out of food because they ate each other. But there are a theory for that. I believe that the animals were brought on when they were still young so they would not eat that much.
I'm not talking about on the boat. I'm talking about after.

If Noah brought 2 young lions and 2 young rabbits, on the boat, when they landed - the lions are going to need to eat. Rabbits reproduce quickly, but not that quickly.
Tyler wrote:
... Some also say that they might not have been eating each other yet.
We call this the "magic magic magic" answer.

When the "magic" Flood happened. Noah "magically" collected all the animals onto his "magic" boat to protect them from the "magic" water. While on his "magic" boat, they "magically" didn't need any food. And, when he finally landed, the animals "magically" spread out and continued to "magically" not eat one another until there were enough rabbits and deer - at which point the predators "magically" changed into meat eaters.

In science one "magic" is too many for a story. That's why this myth does not belong in the science classroom.
Divine Alien

Kota Kinabalu, Malaysia

#14 Dec 24, 2007
There are no dinosaurs created as told in the Bible. Were the dino too big for the Noah Ark and being drown in the flood?
Yes, there are other historical evidence of creation, or otherwise we won't be able to witness the result of creation and evolution.
Area 51

Miami, FL

#15 Dec 24, 2007
Science does not attempt to insert itself in the teaching of religion. There are occasional attempts at placing geographic coordinates on some biblical references like who may have existed and when and where, but science does not compete with Christianity for legitimacy. Only religionists attempt to bring their beliefs to the status of accepted fact by repeating their gospels over and over until they take hold somewhere.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Level 2

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#16 Dec 24, 2007
Divine Alien wrote:
There are no dinosaurs created as told in the Bible. Were the dino too big for the Noah Ark and being drown in the flood?
Yes, there are other historical evidence of creation, or otherwise we won't be able to witness the result of creation and evolution.
Then, list some "evidence".

Please.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Level 2

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#17 Dec 24, 2007
Jason wrote:
Is there any historical evidence of creation other than Bible? Like, have anybody found the ship of Noah.
No.

And the bible is not evidence either.

ALL the supposed "found arks" are fakes. Every single one.

The bible itself does not reflect actual history very well; it is inconsistent with other historical records.

So, no, there are no proofs of creation.

Period.

Not EVEN the bible.
Divine Alien

Malaysia

#18 Dec 24, 2007
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Then, list some "evidence".
Please.
Mr. Bob, I am not talking about the creation in the Bible. I am up to something much more than the creation in the Bible. I don't want to argue about the Bible thing. Other things, yes we can debate.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Level 2

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#19 Dec 25, 2007
Divine Alien wrote:
<quoted text>
Mr. Bob, I am not talking about the creation in the Bible. I am up to something much more than the creation in the Bible. I don't want to argue about the Bible thing. Other things, yes we can debate.
Did I mention "bible" in my response to your post?

No, I did not.

I asked for an example of your evidence for creationism.
Divine Alien

Gelang Patah, Malaysia

#20 Dec 25, 2007
No, you don't. Sorry for that.

Well, the examples are:

1. creation of atoms
2. Creation of universe and its components.
3. There are humans, animals, dinosaurs, crocodiles....
4. There are good spirit, evils, satans etc

Level 7

Since: Sep 07

United States

#21 Dec 25, 2007
Divine Alien wrote:
No, you don't. Sorry for that.
Well, the examples are:
1. creation of atoms
Can you demonstrate that atoms could not have arisen naturally and therefore must be supernatural? No. But, let's say for a second that you can.

Let's say that all evidence indicates that a supernatural being must have created all the atoms.

That still doesn't have anything to do with evolution.
Divine Alien wrote:
2. Creation of universe and its components.
What are you comparing the universe to in order to determine if it was created or not?

There's no basis for comparison because it's all we have.

But, again, assuming you could prove that the Big Bang was caused by a supernatural entity, that would still not be an argument against evolution.
Divine Alien wrote:
3. There are humans, animals, dinosaurs, crocodiles....
Evidence of evolution, not creationism.
Divine Alien wrote:
4. There are good spirit, evils, satans etc
Evidence of delusions, not creationism.

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