The Real Message of Creationism

Nov 22, 2010 Full story: TIME.com 539

When the Kansas Board of Education voted recently to eliminate evolution from the state science curriculum, the sophisticates had quite a yuk.

Full Story

“Shaggin' Wagon.”

Level 1

Since: Apr 09

Springfield, MA

#21 Nov 29, 2010
accer wrote:
I have no problem with the government regulating what is offered to the general public in our school systems, but I believe the parents should have more control over their children, and this Godless teaching is against the rights of the people to not have their religion prevented.
If you want your kids to be scientific illiterates then please keep them away from mine.

“Shaggin' Wagon.”

Level 1

Since: Apr 09

Springfield, MA

#22 Nov 29, 2010
accer wrote:
I have no problem with the government regulating what is offered to the general public in our school systems, but I believe the parents should have more control over their children, and this Godless teaching is against the rights of the people to not have their religion prevented.
No one is preventing any religion now are they? Parents have all the control over their kids that they desire. The only thing the government shouldn't be doing is force feeding any one religion (in this case christianity) at the tax payers expense and against the constitution.

Level 1

Since: Nov 08

Boise, ID

#23 Nov 30, 2010
accer wrote:
I have no problem with the government regulating what is offered to the general public in our school systems, but I believe the parents should have more control over their children, and this Godless teaching is against the rights of the people to not have their religion prevented.
Parents are free to homeschool their children or enroll them in private schools that do not teach evolution. If you want to intellectually hamstring your own kids then go for it, but public schools will continue to teach the knowledge that kids will need in order to pursue a career in the sciences.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#24 Aug 7, 2013
Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Level 7

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#25 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Please tell that to the Creationists who are trying to destroy society.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#26 Aug 7, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Please tell that to the Creationists who are trying to destroy society.
Which ones, what's their names and what are they doing that's so bad?

Level 7

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#27 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Which ones, what's their names and what are they doing that's so bad?
All of them.

What they are doing is pushing theocracy and ignorance onto children which could otherwise have productive lives. This is one of the reasons that America is falling so far behind in sciences.

Ignorance should not be a point of pride.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#28 Aug 7, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
All of them.
What they are doing is pushing theocracy and ignorance onto children which could otherwise have productive lives. This is one of the reasons that America is falling so far behind in sciences.
Ignorance should not be a point of pride.
You're saying that Christians are ignorant and don't have productive lives?

How is America falling so far behind in science? Which department?

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#29 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Which ones, what's their names and what are they doing that's so bad?
(David) Barton makes a lucrative living traveling the right wing's lecture circuit where he offers up a cut-and-paste version of U.S. history liberally sprinkled with gross distortions and, in some cases, outright factual errors. Crowds of fundamentalist Christians from coast to coast can't get enough of it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/26/texa...

Here we find Barton's claim that the Evolution/Creation debate was settled by the Founding Fathers.

You go back to the founding fathers, as far as they were concerned they'd already had the entire debate on creation - evolution and you get Thomas Paine who's the least religious founding father saying 'You've got to teach creation science in the public school classroom. The scientific method demands that'.
&fe ature=player_embedded

God bless you.

Level 7

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#30 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
You're saying that Christians are ignorant and don't have productive lives?
How is America falling so far behind in science? Which department?
No, I'm saying that CREATIONISTS are ignorant, have already given up any hope of pursuing careers in high sciences and are trying to prevent future generations from doing the same.

Do you really not know our rankings?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/27/best...

We are far behind countries which have a fraction of our GDP.

The chief reason is that religion driving politics favors ignorance over education.

The Republican party literally opposed the teaching of "critical thinking skills" in schools.

I'd ask you to explain why, but to do so you would need critical thinking skills

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#31 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
You're saying that Christians are ignorant and don't have productive lives?
How is America falling so far behind in science? Which department?
Science falls into three broad classes: Physics, Chemistry and Biology.
Those three.

“The strength of science is”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

founded in facts.

#32 Aug 7, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I'm saying that CREATIONISTS are ignorant, have already given up any hope of pursuing careers in high sciences and are trying to prevent future generations from doing the same.
Do you really not know our rankings?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/27/best...
We are far behind countries which have a fraction of our GDP.
The chief reason is that religion driving politics favors ignorance over education.
The Republican party literally opposed the teaching of "critical thinking skills" in schools.
I'd ask you to explain why, but to do so you would need critical thinking skills
Couldn't agree more. The Bush administration has been named the first presidency that was actually hostile to science.

“The strength of science is”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

founded in facts.

#33 Aug 7, 2013
15th Dalai Lama wrote:
<quoted text>
(David) Barton makes a lucrative living traveling the right wing's lecture circuit where he offers up a cut-and-paste version of U.S. history liberally sprinkled with gross distortions and, in some cases, outright factual errors. Crowds of fundamentalist Christians from coast to coast can't get enough of it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/26/texa...
Here we find Barton's claim that the Evolution/Creation debate was settled by the Founding Fathers.
You go back to the founding fathers, as far as they were concerned they'd already had the entire debate on creation - evolution and you get Thomas Paine who's the least religious founding father saying 'You've got to teach creation science in the public school classroom. The scientific method demands that'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =fgJp9qd9xOQXX&feature=pla yer_embedded
God bless you.
Ah Dave Barton, one of the unFounding Fathers.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#34 Aug 7, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I'm saying that CREATIONISTS are ignorant, have already given up any hope of pursuing careers in high sciences and are trying to prevent future generations from doing the same.
Do you really not know our rankings?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/27/best...
We are far behind countries which have a fraction of our GDP.
The chief reason is that religion driving politics favors ignorance over education.
The Republican party literally opposed the teaching of "critical thinking skills" in schools.
I'd ask you to explain why, but to do so you would need critical thinking skills
Isn't it more important to save people souls, than to win the race in science?

Science is temporal just as life is.

Eternity is forever.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#35 Aug 7, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I'm saying that CREATIONISTS are ignorant, have already given up any hope of pursuing careers in high sciences and are trying to prevent future generations from doing the same.
Do you really not know our rankings?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/27/best...
We are far behind countries which have a fraction of our GDP.
The chief reason is that religion driving politics favors ignorance over education.
The Republican party literally opposed the teaching of "critical thinking skills" in schools.
I'd ask you to explain why, but to do so you would need critical thinking skills
Critical thinking can benefit one side and be manipulated for the one side of the evolution/creation debate. It is subject to bias.

Critical thinking varies according to the motivation underlying it.

When grounded in selfish motives, it is often manifested in the skillful manipulation of ideas in service of one’s own, or one's groups’, vested interest. As such it is typically intellectually flawed, however pragmatically successful it might be.

When grounded in fairmindedness and intellectual integrity, it is typically of a higher order intellectually, though subject to the charge of "idealism" by those habituated to its selfish use.

Level 7

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#36 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Isn't it more important to save people souls, than to win the race in science?
Science is temporal just as life is.
Eternity is forever.
First, if you _honestly_ believed this, then you would be spending A LOT more time trying to save souls. You wouldn't own a computer, or a house, or a car. You'd sell everything you don't absolutely need to survive and you'd go someplace where you can convert people by the millions. India. China. Indonesia.

You don't do that. Because you don't actually believe this.

Second, the "soul" is a made up term with no real meaning. There's no logic behind it, no location for it. It's utterly imaginary.

It was created by the church to use as a means of controlling people. That's all.

Level 7

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#37 Aug 8, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Critical thinking can benefit one side and be manipulated for the one side of the evolution/creation debate. It is subject to bias.
The fact that you think that Critical Thinking is biased is evidence that you don't have a foundation in critical thinking.

The only bias in critical thinking is whether or not someone is bullsh1t.

The reason that Conservatives oppose Critical thinking is because they are bullsh1ting people a majority of the time.
Critical thinking varies according to the motivation underlying it.
No. Critical thinking, like math or physics, is a tool through which you can evaluate the world.

You don't deny a child access to a tool just because you fear that someone smarter than you might use that tool to expose your lies.

“The strength of science is”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

founded in facts.

#38 Aug 8, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Isn't it more important to save people souls, than to win the race in science?
Science is temporal just as life is.
Eternity is forever.
Saving souls if for church. Do you want scientists to start preaching in your church? I don't want that anymore than I want preachers dictating science policy and education.

“The strength of science is”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

founded in facts.

#39 Aug 8, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Critical thinking can benefit one side and be manipulated for the one side of the evolution/creation debate. It is subject to bias.
Critical thinking varies according to the motivation underlying it.
When grounded in selfish motives, it is often manifested in the skillful manipulation of ideas in service of one’s own, or one's groups’, vested interest. As such it is typically intellectually flawed, however pragmatically successful it might be.
When grounded in fairmindedness and intellectual integrity, it is typically of a higher order intellectually, though subject to the charge of "idealism" by those habituated to its selfish use.
Actually those are all good reasons to be able to think critically. It minimizes your chances of being improperly manipulated and steered in the wrong direction. I have to be honest when I say that I believe this is a cornerstone of fundamentalism. The less people know the easier it is to sell them on foolish ideas. Lots of bad ideas hide behind a facade of "fairmindedness" and "intellectual integrity." I like Richard Dawkin's views on science, but I don't appreciate his hardcore approach to promoting atheism. He is a very intelligent man, but I think his over the top rhetoric in support of his lack of belief mixed with his understanding of science only muddies the waters and reinforces negative views of what science is really saying.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#40 Aug 8, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Critical thinking can benefit one side and be manipulated for the one side of the evolution/creation debate. It is subject to bias.
THAT'S IT! Silly me, all this time wasted on critical thinking when I should have concentrated on being naive, gullible and taking fundies at their word.

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