The Real Message of Creationism

Nov 22, 2010 Full story: TIME.com 539

When the Kansas Board of Education voted recently to eliminate evolution from the state science curriculum, the sophisticates had quite a yuk.

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“Shaggin' Wagon.”

Level 1

Since: Apr 09

Springfield, MA

#1 Nov 23, 2010
Interesting article by an obviously christian. Not that there is anything wrong with that but he overlooks the fact that Hindus and Muslims probably don't want to listen to the 10 commandments. I know I don't. Although I am thankful for his support of science, his desire to insert religion in schools is unacceptable. The state has no business prosthelytizing. For no other reason than I don't want to help pay for it. They can preach to each other whenever they want and where ever they want. Just don't hire teachers to help instead of teaching calculus to 1st graders like they are supposed to!!

Level 1

Since: Dec 06

Saint Petersburg, FL

#2 Nov 23, 2010
His arguments as to why creationism in a science class is wrong, is the only thing he gets right.

Saying "A healthy country would teach its children evolution and the Ten Commandments" is nonsense. If a PARENT wants to teach the Ten Commandments, great. No reason a public school should, except in a comparative religion class, and only if it shows no favoritism to Christianity.

Then he says: "If we were a bit more tolerant about allowing the teaching of biblical values as ethics, we'd find far less pressure for the teaching of biblical fables as science."
That sounds like blackmail to me. Teach CHRISTIAN ethics, and they won't push the Bible as science. Why do Christians think they are so special?
MIDutch

Waterford, MI

#3 Nov 23, 2010
From the article by Charles Krauthammer:

"This is nutty. It has kids looking for God in all the wrong places. For the purposes of a pluralist society, the Bible is not about fact. It is about values."

Well, then leave it to those RESPONSIBLE for teaching values ... the parents, families and churches. How hard is that to figure out.

Also:

"If we were a bit more tolerant about allowing the teaching of biblical values as ethics, we'd find far less pressure for the teaching of biblical fables as science."

I would imagine Mr. Krauthammer would be the FIRST in line at the next school board meeting to complain if his school district were a "bit more tolerant about allowing the teaching of koranic values" or "torah values" or "bhagavad gita values".

Further, he must not be aware that the "creationhicks" would be pressuring for "teaching of biblical fables as science" no matter what was taught in school IF the Theory of Evolution was included anywhere in the curriculum. The one does NOT have anything to do with the other.

“It's all about the struggle”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#4 Nov 23, 2010
"...the bloody writing's on the walls...I hear the angels crying just as the devil smiles...."
:)

Level 1

Since: Nov 08

Boise, ID

#5 Nov 23, 2010
Dennis2 wrote:
His arguments as to why creationism in a science class is wrong, is the only thing he gets right.
Saying "A healthy country would teach its children evolution and the Ten Commandments" is nonsense. If a PARENT wants to teach the Ten Commandments, great. No reason a public school should, except in a comparative religion class, and only if it shows no favoritism to Christianity.
What business does the US government have in telling kids that they are not allowed to make idols, can only worship the God of the Old Testament, must not take God's name in vain, and must not work on Saturdays?

What next? Perhaps the lunch lady should tell kids that they aren't allowed to have shrimp because God says so?

Not only that, but the Ten Commandments directly contradict our own Constitution. We are free to worship or not worship any god we please. The Ten Commandments says otherwise.

“Only a fool says he knows all.”

Since: Jun 10

United States

#6 Nov 23, 2010
This is nutty. It has kids looking for God in all the wrong places. For the purposes of a pluralist society, the Bible is not about fact. It is about values. If we were a bit more tolerant about allowing the teaching of biblical values as ethics, we'd find far less pressure for the teaching of biblical fables as science.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9...

Well, here is where Young Earth Christian Creationist will disagree. Yes the bible is full of moral values, but it also gives the history of our universe.

In my opinion, both ideas of Evolution and Christian Creation origons should be educated in history class, but when it comes to science, evolution and creation should not be placed into the text books. You don't need either to explain the world and how it works. Instead let the kids descide on their own how the world began and is.

Level 1

Since: Nov 08

Boise, ID

#7 Nov 23, 2010
Aaron Weaver wrote:
If we were a bit more tolerant about allowing the teaching of biblical values as ethics,...
Ethics are determined by empathy and reason, not "because the Bible says so". If something is ethical it can stand on its own. That is what we should be teaching. Using reason and empathy to determine what is and isn't ethical.
In my opinion, both ideas of Evolution and Christian Creation origons should be educated in history class, but when it comes to science, evolution and creation should not be placed into the text books. You don't need either to explain the world and how it works. Instead let the kids descide on their own how the world began and is.
You do need evolution to explain why we see what we see in biology. More specifically, you need evolution to explain why birds do not have three middle ear bones, and why fish do not have teats. You need evolution to explain genetics and how novel adaptations appear in populations.

Nowhere in biology do you need creationism to explain anything.
The Dude

UK

#8 Nov 23, 2010
Aaron Weaver wrote:
This is nutty. It has kids looking for God in all the wrong places. For the purposes of a pluralist society, the Bible is not about fact. It is about values. If we were a bit more tolerant about allowing the teaching of biblical values as ethics, we'd find far less pressure for the teaching of biblical fables as science.
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9...
Well, here is where Young Earth Christian Creationist will disagree. Yes the bible is full of moral values, but it also gives the history of our universe.
In my opinion, both ideas of Evolution and Christian Creation origons should be educated in history class, but when it comes to science, evolution and creation should not be placed into the text books. You don't need either to explain the world and how it works. Instead let the kids descide on their own how the world began and is.
Shame for you that what you propose is illegal and will never happen.

SO! What's the "scientific theory" of ID/Creationism? Why won't you ever answer this simple question?
Tamerlane

Tallahassee, FL

#9 Nov 24, 2010
Aaron Weaver wrote:
This is nutty. It has kids looking for God in all the wrong places. For the purposes of a pluralist society, the Bible is not about fact. It is about values. If we were a bit more tolerant about allowing the teaching of biblical values as ethics, we'd find far less pressure for the teaching of biblical fables as science.
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9...
Well, here is where Young Earth Christian Creationist will disagree. Yes the bible is full of moral values, but it also gives the history of our universe.
In my opinion, both ideas of Evolution and Christian Creation origons should be educated in history class, but when it comes to science, evolution and creation should not be placed into the text books. You don't need either to explain the world and how it works. Instead let the kids descide on their own how the world began and is.
It is not the prerogative of the public school system to help anyone find God. That's their parent's job.
But since you are a YEC, there is probably no reasoning with you anyway - you are utterly divorced from reality already.
Creationism is not science. And you really need to retake basic American civics as well.

Level 1

Since: Dec 06

Saint Petersburg, FL

#10 Nov 24, 2010
Aaron Weaver wrote:
This is nutty. It has kids looking for God in all the wrong places. For the purposes of a pluralist society, the Bible is not about fact. It is about values. If we were a bit more tolerant about allowing the teaching of biblical values as ethics, we'd find far less pressure for the teaching of biblical fables as science.
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9...
Well, here is where Young Earth Christian Creationist will disagree. Yes the bible is full of moral values, but it also gives the history of our universe.
In my opinion, both ideas of Evolution and Christian Creation origons should be educated in history class, but when it comes to science, evolution and creation should not be placed into the text books. You don't need either to explain the world and how it works. Instead let the kids descide on their own how the world began and is.
Your opinion is wrong. Christina creation origins (which is no better or more valid than Navajo creation origins, Hindu creation origins, etc.) is not history, it's fairy tale, it's mythology. As for evolution, it is science. It is the foundation of biology. It MUST be taught. Kids should have no more say in deciding whether to learn evolution than they do in deciding to learn algebra.

Level 1

Since: Nov 08

Boise, ID

#11 Nov 24, 2010
It might help to highlight the Lemon Test. This is the test that judges use to determine if the government is crossing the line with respect to the Establishment Clause:

1. The government's action must have a secular legislative purpose;
2. The government's action must not have the primary effect of either advancing or inhibiting religion;
3. The government's action must not result in an "excessive government entanglement" with religion.

There is obvious secular use for teaching the theory of evolution in science class. There is zero secular use for teaching creationism in science class. Furthermore, advancing religious beliefs as validated truths in the form or creation science is advancing religion.

Teaching creationism in science class fails the Lemon Test, and spectacularly so.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#12 Nov 29, 2010
Aaron Weaver wrote:
This is nutty. It has kids looking for God in all the wrong places. For the purposes of a pluralist society, the Bible is not about fact. It is about values. If we were a bit more tolerant about allowing the teaching of biblical values as ethics, we'd find far less pressure for the teaching of biblical fables as science.
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9...
Well, here is where Young Earth Christian Creationist will disagree. Yes the bible is full of moral values, but it also gives the history of our universe.
In my opinion, both ideas of Evolution and Christian Creation origons should be educated in history class, but when it comes to science, evolution and creation should not be placed into the text books. You don't need either to explain the world and how it works. Instead let the kids descide on their own how the world began and is.
So, when the Bible says snakes eat dust, but reality says snakes eat animals, should we teach both as equally valid, or should we teach what science and reality have shown to be demonstrably true?

The Bible also tells inaccurate stories about the census that supposedly had Joseph and Mary returning to Bethlehem (a census for which there is no record and precious little, if any, precedent). Should we teach the Bible's no-evidence-required story AND the history as documented by reliable sources as equally valid?

And, shouldn't we also teach every other religion's creation myths and histories of the world if we're going to teach the one from the Bible?

And, shouldn't we just let the kids decide what real math is? Why or why not?
accer

Somerset, KY

#13 Nov 29, 2010
Aaron Weaver wrote:
This is nutty. It has kids looking for God in all the wrong places. For the purposes of a pluralist society, the Bible is not about fact. It is about values. If we were a bit more tolerant about allowing the teaching of biblical values as ethics, we'd find far less pressure for the teaching of biblical fables as science.
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9...
Well, here is where Young Earth Christian Creationist will disagree. Yes the bible is full of moral values, but it also gives the history of our universe.
In my opinion, both ideas of Evolution and Christian Creation origons should be educated in history class, but when it comes to science, evolution and creation should not be placed into the text books. You don't need either to explain the world and how it works. Instead let the kids descide on their own how the world began and is.
The government isn't required by the constitution of the USA to force teach our children anything. The parents should have control of what their children are taught, at least until the child becomes 16 yrs of age, and then the child should be allowed to choose what is learned.
accer

Somerset, KY

#14 Nov 29, 2010
I have no problem with the government regulating what is offered to the general public in our school systems, but I believe the parents should have more control over their children, and this Godless teaching is against the rights of the people to not have their religion prevented.
The Dude

UK

#15 Nov 29, 2010
accer wrote:
<quoted text>The government isn't required by the constitution of the USA to force teach our children anything. The parents should have control of what their children are taught, at least until the child becomes 16 yrs of age, and then the child should be allowed to choose what is learned.
That is why the Government offer secular public schools, but the parents have every right to homeschool their kids or send them to a private schools where the child's 'education' can be more tailor-made to the parent's tastes.
The Dude

UK

#16 Nov 29, 2010
accer wrote:
I have no problem with the government regulating what is offered to the general public in our school systems, but I believe the parents should have more control over their children, and this Godless teaching is against the rights of the people to not have their religion prevented.
To be clear, secular schools does not equate to "atheist" schools. No religion may be given preference over another, therefore if one religion is taught, then ALL religions should be taught EQUALLY. And it should be done in the appropriate class, ie: a comparative religions class (rather than a science class). As far as I'm aware, parents can still take their child out of particular classes if they have some kind of objection to them. Of course that will obviously mean the child will not graduate that specific class.
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#17 Nov 29, 2010
>>>accer
The parents should have control of what their children are taught, at least until the child becomes 16 yrs of age, and then the child should be allowed to choose what is learned.

>>>Gillette
So you are suggesting that parents should have control over what is taught in science classes, and not scientists?

What do parents know about science, compared to national boards of working professional scientists?

Should parents have control over what kind of math is taught in math classes?

Level 1

Since: Dec 06

Saint Petersburg, FL

#18 Nov 29, 2010
accer wrote:
I have no problem with the government regulating what is offered to the general public in our school systems, but I believe the parents should have more control over their children, and this Godless teaching is against the rights of the people to not have their religion prevented.
Pure BS. Evolution, the age of the earth, etc. are all SCIENCE. To be, necessarily, taught in SCIENCE class. It is accepted, highly evidenced science. That the facts are inconvenient to your beliefs is irrelevant. Don't like the facts, then go to a private school.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#19 Nov 29, 2010
accer wrote:
I have no problem with the government regulating what is offered to the general public in our school systems, but I believe the parents should have more control over their children, and this Godless teaching is against the rights of the people to not have their religion prevented.
I agree. We need CHRISTIAN math and CHRISTIAN history and CHRISTIAN chemistry and CHRISTIAN physics and CHRISTIAN spelling and CHRISTIAN grammar to go along with the CHRISTIAN biology.

I mean, that's what you want, right? You want God in school. You don't want God left out of lessons. And, not just God (something for which you have zero evidence of existing), but YOUR FAVORITE God. If you're going to have God-flavored biology, why wouldn't ALL subjects be God-flavored?

By the way, you do realize that government sponsorship of any particular religious belief is in direct violation of the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, and thus anti-American, yes? Why do you hate America so much?

Since: Dec 06

Urbana, Illinois

#20 Nov 29, 2010
The Real Message of Creationism: don't think...?

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