It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

Full story: Asheville Citizen-Times

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...
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KAB

United States

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#135536
Monday Jul 14
 

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Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually to all intents and purposes it does for the most part. The continuum between bipedal apes to modern humans is so well covered that many specimens are difficult to categorise between an earlier or later form. For example, does H Georgicus "really" belong at the Erectus level or are its more primitive features different enough to justify a separate species designation? Same between H Heidelburgensis and Rudolphensis, in fact all the way from A Afarensis to modern H Sapiens. Its a pretty smooth sequence of tiny changes and these were just a couple of examples.
To any rational critic, that is enough to establish the pattern of increments as predicted by evolution. Demanding "generation by generation" is unnecessary to prove the case and merely a groping for an absurd standard of proof because creationists can no longer speak of "missing links" so they are trying to raise the bar. Next thing they will want to know Grok's surname.
Nobody cares. We have a pattern that evolution predicted and that creationism neither predicted nor can explain.
Evolution is an explanation for an observed pattern. It didn't predict the pattern before that pattern was observed.
MMLandJ

United States

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#135537
Monday Jul 14
 
KAB wrote:
There is nothing about uniformity in the Bible passage you quoted.
Yes there is. Perhaps if the verse stated: "And the rain poured down on Havilah for 40 days and 40 nights," you might have something about uniformity. But it doesn't. The verses state, "....the floodgates of the heavens were opened. And the rain poured down on the earth for 40 days and 40 nights."

Not only do these verses confirm the intensity of the rain, they also provides for a uniform distribution of rain, as by definition, the heavens surround the entire earth.

Here is corroboration from Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary from an online bible study site.

"The windows of heaven were opened, and the waters which were above the firmament, that is, in the air, were poured out upon the earth. The rain comes down in drops; but such rains fell then, as were never known before or since. It rained without stop or abatement, forty days and forty nights, upon the whole earth at once."
http://biblehub.com/genesis/7-11.htm
MMLandJ

United States

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#135538
Monday Jul 14
 
KAB wrote:
Have you already/again forgotten the well-timed Pingualuit crater lake unique basin-scale slide sediment data, or are you requesting physical data confirming that the Biblical global flood occurred?
Pingualuit sediment data was not corroborated by other crater lakes. That is why the alien space craft landing is a better alternative for the slide.
KAB wrote:
Why do you assume an alien spacecraft would be like a human spacecraft?
Why do you assume it wouldn't?
KAB wrote:
Provide physical data references confirming intelligent beings alien to Earth.
Right after you provide physical data references confirming a global flood.

“I have upset the hand of god”

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#135539
Monday Jul 14
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Evolution is an explanation for an observed pattern. It didn't predict the pattern before that pattern was observed.
That would be incorrect. Not too technically savvy or science literate are you.

If the evidence isn't available at the time, but the theory says you should expect a certain outcome, and then you get evidence that meets that expectation, it is a prediction.

Have you heard of a guy named Einstein? He had this theory that made predictions that weren't verified until years afterward when the ability to conduct experiments developed so that the evidence could be gathered.

I am trying to KAB this down as much as I can so you can understand.

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

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#135540
Monday Jul 14
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Evolution is an explanation for an observed pattern. It didn't predict the pattern before that pattern was observed.
Do you have ANY understanding of science?

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

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#135541
Monday Jul 14
 
MMLandJ wrote:
<quoted text>
Pingualuit sediment data was not corroborated by other crater lakes. That is why the alien space craft landing is a better alternative for the slide.
<quoted text>
Why do you assume it wouldn't?
<quoted text>
Right after you provide physical data references confirming a global flood.
Either:
1) he understands the trap you set for him and neatly tries to avoid it by asking these questions - that will make him dishonest because he refuses to acknowledge the fact that it directly addresses his unscientific and even from colloquial perspective unallowed premise that "if you can't disprove it, I have a case"
2) he does not understand it, which I think is rather unlikely.

He is a dishonest prank.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

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#135542
Monday Jul 14
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Evolution is an explanation for an observed pattern. It didn't predict the pattern before that pattern was observed.

Nor is it a function of the ToE to do so.

Do you understand that?

Of course you don't. The question was rhetorical.

“I have upset the hand of god”

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#135543
Monday Jul 14
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
When data/analysis (not conclusions) is provided which confirms the Biblical global flood didn't occur I will change my understanding of the flood.
Yes, the bar/goal post just keeps moving.

“I have upset the hand of god”

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#135544
Monday Jul 14
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
When data/analysis (not conclusions) is provided which confirms the Biblical global flood didn't occur I will change my understanding of the flood.
What is amusing is that you don't provide data or analysis. You provide assertion and opinion. So once, how do you imagine have established credibility here?
KAB

Oxford, NC

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#135545
Monday Jul 14
 
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
It does not have to. You are picturing the scenario incorrectly. The effects of decreasing pressure on the side wall will be a net upward force that will reduce the pressure at the base just as filling a swimming pool up around you (standing on the bottom) would result in gradually decreasing pressure on the soles of your feet. No, its not about "downward facing" parts of your body, you would feel the same thing if you were a perfect cube. When the pressure between the ice and the rock decreases and the intense pressure of water just beside the base increases, nothing will stop that water getting in and under. But to remind you, all this palaver is summarised succinctly in the law that net buoyancy force = weight of object minus weight of displaced water...and a negative result = an upward force.
But it makes little difference to me, because as I have made clear to you, it does not matter much to me whether you want to stick with your absurd claim or not - because if you were right, the evidence of the Flood would be just as obvious in massive discontinuities in the ice cap at the "top", I have said this for months and you have no answer. Far smaller impacts than a total months long inundation of the ice caps can be read from the ice cores - there is no way your Flood would magically remain invisible.
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I am more noting the fact that you have gone silent on the haplogroup data. Perhaps with the examples of Otzi and the Cheddar Man, the conclusive nature of this evidence is finally starting to sink in. Mummies thousands of years old already have mt-DNA patterns that are highly derived sub-clades of sub-clades (repeat 10 times)....and each subclade is a pattern of several mutations that occurred a single female and then propagated through the group over many generations before that group split into further sub-clades.
Even more telling, SOME of these remains are already dated to pre-Flood times, when they should not exist at all if n=3 4500 years ago and all patterns such as "U" are already distantly descended FROM the basic groupings.
The disproof of evolution would be if a derived fossil was shown to be significantly OLDER than its possible evolutionary antecedents. For example, a 3 boned middle ear in a creature that existed before the 3-boned middle ear evolutionary sequence of 230-180 million years ago. None has ever been found.
But the SAME principle holds here. A type "U" - a highly specific set of random sequence changes that tracks back through to R, N, L3, L3'4 etc etc, could not occur before the Flood, or even close after the Flood. Yet there they are. In YOUR scenario, Cheddar Man should either have been a uniquely different derivative of L1 or L0, or even completely different back to the mt-MRCA. But he could NOT be a "U". And its not just this one specimen, as I mentioned others as well.
I note that you claim not to be a "Young Earth Creationist" i.e. you can accept that the world is more than 6000 years old, even though Biblical literalism demands it. So why can you not accept that the Flood story is also allegorical? The ice cores say it. The mt-DNA screams it. You on the other hand need to keep denying more and more scientific evidence, adding absurdities such as the Himalayas being 4500 years old, just doubling down and compounding the silliness of this position. Don't you know when to give up? Don't you know that "the Flood" being literal is not even central to your case for being a Christian? Millions of others seem to.
You are correct about the pressure of the water tending to force the water under the ice wherever possible. You are incorrect about any buoyant force tending to lift the ice off the rock before the water gets under it.

Jesus seems to have thought the flood was literal (Matthew 24:37-39). Do you know what Christian means, literally?
KAB

Oxford, NC

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#135546
Monday Jul 14
 
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Translation: My story book of ancient myths trumps all of geology. But I'm not biased.
So far there is no confirmed conflict with geology.

“I have upset the hand of god”

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#135547
Monday Jul 14
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
You are correct about the pressure of the water tending to force the water under the ice wherever possible. You are incorrect about any buoyant force tending to lift the ice off the rock before the water gets under it.
Jesus seems to have thought the flood was literal (Matthew 24:37-39). Do you know what Christian means, literally?
More nothing answers. From the perspective of science, it doesn't matter what the Bible claims Jesus said about the story of Noah.

Your data-less and incorrect assertion about buoyancy is amusing and completely KAB. This is the sort of thing that provides the level of credibility you have here on this forum.

What does your cult have to do with Jesus Christ?

“I have upset the hand of god”

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#135548
Monday Jul 14
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
So far there is no confirmed conflict with geology.
It isn't like we don't know you are holding that in reserve when you run out of your current line of bullshit.
KAB

Oxford, NC

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#135549
Monday Jul 14
 
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey KAB! Don't forget to flatten all of these as well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highest_mountain...
Do you think a global flood should be expected to affect similar situations in similar ways or in different ways?

“I have upset the hand of god”

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#135550
Monday Jul 14
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you think a global flood should be expected to affect similar situations in similar ways or in different ways?
I think you should stop bullshitting us and provide some data to support your assertions.
wondering

Highlandville, MO

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#135551
Monday Jul 14
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you think a global flood should be expected to affect similar situations in similar ways or in different ways?
kab lets put this short and simple. do you have evidence of a global flood or not? either present scientific evidence of a global flood or stick with you pathetic word run around games and then i can see that you deserve all the BS and ridiculing you get. and don't cop out to your BS claim of "you want them to find it on their own so they can learn". it has been many upon many months so it is time to either put up or shut up. lets see what you think you actually have and don't forget it has to be scientific,tested evidence.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

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Since: Apr 08

Tampa, FL

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#135552
Tuesday Jul 15
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
So far there is no confirmed conflict with geology.
Bullshit. If you were even SLIGHTLY technically savvy, you would know this is not true.

Would you like to read Glenn Morton's article on this again?

http://glennmortonspages.wikispaces.com /Old+Earth+Creation+Science+Te stimony+Why+I+Left+Young-Earth +Creationism

How about a few more?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

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#135553
Tuesday Jul 15
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you think a global flood should be expected to affect similar situations in similar ways or in different ways?
Given the fact that the biblical flood never happened, your question is meaningless.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

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#135554
Tuesday Jul 15
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text> You are incorrect about any buoyant force tending to lift the ice off the rock before the water gets under it.
You might do better if you abandoned arguments you already lost, many times over. Do you understand that the term pigheaded means?

KAB wrote:
<quoted text>Jesus seems to have thought the flood was literal (Matthew 24:37-39).

Thus so there is no evidence that Jesus believed in computers or the internet and clearly did not believe we would survive long enough to develop such things.

KAB wrote:
<quoted text>Do you know what Christian means, literally?
Indeed, it means that mind control cult members are not Christians. Heck, they don't even like Christians and deny that Christians are Christians. Further they add to and take away from the Bible (clearly prohibited) and they distort the meanings of what the Bible actually says. They exist not to glorify Yahweh (in fact they refuse that name in favor of a name that was made up by an 10 century monk) but to control people and amass wealth and power for the upper crust of the cult. If the founders of your Cult (who are now ignored by the cult) were to see what it has become they would cry and rent their cloths (traditionally done when a loved one has died).


“I am Sisyphus”

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#135555
Tuesday Jul 15
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
So far there is no confirmed conflict with geology.

Excuse me! Are you high???

Geology says there is no evidence for a global flood.
Geology says the mountains and continants have been what they are (and changing slowly) for millions of years.

You want to stick with this mistake?

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