It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the ...

It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

There are 162035 comments on the Asheville Citizen-Times story from Mar 15, 2009, titled It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate. In it, Asheville Citizen-Times reports that:

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Asheville Citizen-Times.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#134644 Jul 3, 2014
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree that it wasn't particularly useful to answer Turky's questions. That's why I didn't initially, but he was insistent, and I chose to humor him. Perhaps you can help him adjust his thinking to avoid wasted effort.

We all know arguing with non savvy inferiors is always a wasted effort. But it still entertains, somehow.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#134645 Jul 3, 2014
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree that it wasn't particularly useful to answer Turky's questions. That's why I didn't initially, but he was insistent, and I chose to humor him. Perhaps you can help him adjust his thinking to avoid wasted effort.
He didn't ask how many females were allegedly on the ark. This has been talked about before. You are just making some ham handed effort to cover that and curry favor with me at the same time. You are the one wasting your time.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Lakeland, FL

#134646 Jul 3, 2014
MMLandJ wrote:
<quoted text>
Good ho-hum prediction!!
Yeah. I know. I've known him for a few years. Not that I.m proud of that or anything.
KAB

Wilson, NC

#134647 Jul 3, 2014
MMLandJ wrote:
<quoted text>
If you want to believe that the Pingualuit arctic char fish population entered the lake by swimming hundreds of vertical feet up the external slope from nearby Lake Laflamme, go right ahead.
<quoted text>
There is physical evidence that glaciers provided the erosion. What evidence do you have that a global flood did it?
There is a plethora of "evidence"which supports an earthquake as the likely cause of the Pingualuit slide. What evidence do you have which supports a global flood causing same?
So do we go with the evidence, or do we just forget about it?
Swimming upstream is what fish do isn't it?

Provide your physical evidence that glaciers carved the rim valley at Pingualuit.

The evidence for rim overtopping causing the basin-scale slide is that the uniformity of such is ideally suited for a basin-scale type slide and the timing coincidence with the global flood reported in the Bible. Add to that the likelihood of earthquakes accompanying the factors attending the flood as reported.
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#134648 Jul 3, 2014
marksman11 wrote:
looking forward to speaking at an anti-evolution seminar on the 6th!!!
Still deceiving people with your crap?
Last time I debated you, you were also about to attend some seminar of science deniers soon.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#134649 Jul 3, 2014
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Swimming upstream is what fish do isn't it?
Provide your physical evidence that glaciers carved the rim valley at Pingualuit.
The evidence for rim overtopping causing the basin-scale slide is that the uniformity of such is ideally suited for a basin-scale type slide and the timing coincidence with the global flood reported in the Bible. Add to that the likelihood of earthquakes accompanying the factors attending the flood as reported.
So your global flood deposited a single species of fish in the crater and no other. How precise of it. Not to mention the fact that the flood is described as killing all life on earth to begin with.

Every answer you give is a supposition and is dependent on other suppositions. Not on evidence.

You can't have flood-caused earthquakes when you haven't even made one inroad in establishing the flood. You do that first and we might have something to discuss, but three years and counting you have brought nothing.
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#134650 Jul 3, 2014
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree that it wasn't particularly useful to answer Turky's questions. That's why I didn't initially, but he was insistent, and I chose to humor him. Perhaps you can help him adjust his thinking to avoid wasted effort.
It was PERFECTLY useful to answer my questions because it PERFECTLY wasn't useful to your position. And you initially DID answer, so that is a lie.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#134651 Jul 3, 2014
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Swimming upstream is what fish do isn't it?
Provide your physical evidence that glaciers carved the rim valley at Pingualuit.
The evidence for rim overtopping causing the basin-scale slide is that the uniformity of such is ideally suited for a basin-scale type slide and the timing coincidence with the global flood reported in the Bible. Add to that the likelihood of earthquakes accompanying the factors attending the flood as reported.
You act superior by demanding evidence from them when you offer none of your own.

You provide evidence to support a global flood and then you can start demanding things from others. But after three years, nothing from you.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#134652 Jul 3, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
Still deceiving people with your crap?
Last time I debated you, you were also about to attend some seminar of science deniers soon.
Really it is three guys, marksman and marksman's dog and the dog is having second thoughts.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#134653 Jul 3, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
It was PERFECTLY useful to answer my questions because it PERFECTLY wasn't useful to your position. And you initially DID answer, so that is a lie.
It isn't so much a question of will KAB lie, but rather what form the lie will take and how obvious it will be. The scale is obvious, very obvious, and so obvious, you can't believe how obvious.
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#134654 Jul 3, 2014
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Global flood: A global flood would be a single flood producing simultaneous flooding in locations all over the earth.
Flood Gauge: A structure which is configured such that it will register and retain a record of the occurrence of a flood.
One specifically reported global flood: The global flood reported in the Bible book of Genesis. This global flood is reported to have occurred about 4500 years ago and left no ground on Earth uncovered.
Hey, you could say I'm an informer!
As usual not accurate enough.
Did the global flood cover the whole of the earth and to what extent?
How can a SINGLE flood produce SIMULTANEOUS flooding in LOCATIONS (plural) all over the world? How can a single flood be simultaneous?
Is the global flood in the first definition the same as the specifically reported flood of the bible?
KAB

Wilson, NC

#134655 Jul 3, 2014
MMLandJ wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't have any data for global flooding, nor will you have any in the future.
So were you lying when you wrote: "that [I] never really requested [your] desert flood references, instead [I] stated why they wouldn't matter." ?
Thank you again for not providing the global flood references you claim you have.
I will provide the desert flood references if you acknowledge that present lack of similar data from the remaining deserts, craters, and other landmasses doesn't mean the global flood never happened.
KAB

Wilson, NC

#134656 Jul 3, 2014
MMLandJ wrote:
<quoted text>
I like your insults. They always tell me when you have been refuted.
Your post here is nothing but a diversion. You just want to engage in another ridiculous round of "he said/she said," something that you really seem to get off on.
The main point to be remembered here is that you tried but failed to refute the 1871 prediction that early human progenitors would be found in Africa, a prediction that validated evolutionary theory.
I don't even want to refute the 1871 hominin prediction any more than I want to refute tomorrow's sunrise prediction. They both follow established patterns.
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#134657 Jul 3, 2014
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
All the ice ages were prior to the basin-scale slide. Beyond that, check with M&M since it is he who invoked water climbing the Pingualuit crater's outer slope and drew attention to the V-shaped valley.
BTW, it would be helpful if you made sure you responded to a post as part of its ongoing context instead of as if it was an isolated independent item. Then you would be less likely to exhibit ignorance of what's already been posted.
I will pose questions as I like or prefer.
I especially do not need YOUR renditions of the "ongoing context".

I do not need to refer to M&M since you are using the arguments too.
If I feel some need to consult M&M, don't worry, I will.
As YOU are using the arguments too, I ask YOU.

ALWAYS do we need to keep you on track of PROPER debate.

So as you don't seem to agree with M&M that there was no water climbing the Pingualuit crater's outer slope, there could be no flood because a flood entering the crater's area will cause flood water climbing the outer slopes, isn't it?
Hence, once more: no global flood.

That comes when you hide away behind others.

Of course the ice ages were prior to the basin-scale slide, because the land slide, according to the relevant geological studies I provided and which you didn't read, is caused by glacio-isostatic rebound. And a rebound is, as the words already indicates, always AFTERWARDS.

Now could you AT LEAST and after all these oblivious post, tell us at long last WHAT relevant evidence you have of a WORLDWIDE flood at the Pingualuit crater.
I haven't seen ANYTHING YET.
KAB

Wilson, NC

#134658 Jul 3, 2014
MMLandJ wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure, go ahead and try to justify your nastiness, as this further demonstrates your style of Christianity.
<quoted text>
So where is the post of me starting the insults with you? Unless you provide it, your statement "as was true with Jesus, I never start a round of insults" can be seen as a lie.
Your post which I referenced preceded mine.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#134659 Jul 3, 2014
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Your post which I referenced preceded mine.
So you say.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#134660 Jul 3, 2014
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't even want to refute the 1871 hominin prediction any more than I want to refute tomorrow's sunrise prediction. They both follow established patterns.
Does this post even mean anything? You can't refute either. Is that it. Is that what you are saying in your backward, escape hatch way?
KAB

Wilson, NC

#134661 Jul 3, 2014
MMLandJ wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you in 3rd grade?
There is evidence for a barringer basal playa date of ~11,000 years.
There is no evidence for a barringer basal playa date of 4500 years.
~11,000 years =/= 4500 years
If we go with evidence, then the barringer basal playa formation is ~11,000 years.
Prediction: The feedback KAB will provide after reading the paper which provides the evidence for the 11,000 year basal playa date will cast doubt on or will deny the evidence.
There is evidence for a barringer basal playa date of ~4,500 years.
If we go with evidence, we have a choice.

BTW, if you acknowledge the evidence for 4500 years, I will read the secondary reference regarding the evidence for 11,000 years. Perhaps it is the stronger evidence.
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#134662 Jul 3, 2014
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
I will provide the desert flood references if you acknowledge that present lack of similar data from the remaining deserts, craters, and other landmasses doesn't mean the global flood never happened.
"Present lack of data" means: rejection of the hypothesis. Until relevant data are eventually provided yet. Let's have a look.

A global flood must leave traces EVERYWHERE in the relevant time frame (4,500 years bp).

There should be traces of mass extinction of life in an unprecedented scale.
We have several instances of mass extinction of life in the geological record. We recognize this by the fact that the strata above that particular event lack major parts of the plant and animal species who were still present in the strata below.

The Permian/Triassic extinction event 251 Ma at the Permian-Triassic transition. It killed 57% of all families, 83% of all genera and 90% to 96% of all species (53% of marine families, 84% of marine genera, about 96% of all marine species and an estimated 70% of land species, including insects.

Apart from the impossibility of recovery of all life on earth from mass extinction in just 4,500 years, we should have evidence of this mass extinction. And it should be found EVERYWHERE on earth.

But we don't. There have been the exact abundance of species in the geological record just before the 4,500 ya mass extinction event, during the event as well as afterwards. Because otherwise there would have been evidence of mass extinction. But I can't recall ONE study mentioning a mass extinction event in the 4,500 ya time frame.

Do you have any evidence of mass extinction in the 4,500 ya boundary?
That will be the first question out of MANY.
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#134663 Jul 3, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>So you say.
"Not your post that wasn't mine didn't preceded the post that wasn't the not referenced post not being your but neither mine."

And IF it was you who started the insults, according to his bible he should have turned his other cheek to you.

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