It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the ...

It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

There are 164685 comments on the Asheville Citizen-Times story from Mar 15, 2009, titled It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate. In it, Asheville Citizen-Times reports that:

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Asheville Citizen-Times.

KAB

United States

#127716 Mar 18, 2014
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
While you have backed off your prior assertion, you have not yet back off enough.
It is a lie for you to claim you always provide data when you go out of your way to provide it.
Remember, you have never provided data on why ice does not float.
Just one example that I like to bring up since you made such a fool of yourself over the issue.
Since ice under appropriate conditions does float I won't be providing data on why ice does not float.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#127717 Mar 18, 2014
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Out of 1.4 million years, wasn't the slough day a magical day for rain at the Pingualuit crater?!!
A breakthrough. KAB finally admits he believes in magic over science and data.

If there was precipitation on "slough day," the chances are better than even that that it snowed.
KAB

United States

#127718 Mar 18, 2014
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
More of this red herring. The salient point is that the parts used to provide the nested hierarchy of human ancestry must be the same parts that are used to calibrate timing. You should understand why, by now. I did give you those sequences too, months ago.
If you for some irrelevant and pointless reason wish to know what the most conserved regions are, you can always look it up, for example
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2...
and others, of you really want to go down that route.
But you have not pointed out why naming them matters in our discussion, and obviously you are unable to do so, because of course it does not matter. You are merely grasping at straws.
Similarly the distinction you try to draw between coding and control regions. Its irrelevant. In either case there may be more or less conserved regions depending on the organism's sensitivity to changes in those regions. A region of either coding or control where small differences disrupted function would be highly conserved in either case. And area of either where the changes had little effect on function would not be highly conserved, and might even be hypervariable.
But whether the regions used to determine the nested hierarchy happen to be control, coding, or both, is not relevant.
The fact that the SAME region must be used for time calibration is relevant.
Try to burrow into pointless details if you like, but it wont help you. All that matters is that if different regions vary survivably at different rates (due to the degree of required specificity), and certain regions have revealed the nested hierarchy of ancestry, then we must apply the rate of change found IN THOSE REGIONS and not others, as (lying) creationists have attempted to do in their efforts to discredit the science.
Thanks for the reference, but I already know where the most conserved regions of human mtDNA are, It appears to be you who does not, since you haven't stated where they are. Not knowing, you wouldn't appreciate the significance relative to the nested hierarchy of human ancestry.
KAB

United States

#127719 Mar 18, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
A breakthrough. KAB finally admits he believes in magic over science and data.
If there was precipitation on "slough day," the chances are better than even that that it snowed.
Perhaps you could reason thru this with Dogen who introduced the rain notion.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#127720 Mar 18, 2014
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps you could reason thru this with Dogen who introduced the rain notion.
sigh... what have you been told about bearing false witness again, KAB?
Dogen brought up the notion that 4250+/- years ago it rained for 40 days and 40 nights and dislodged some loose rubble on a remote crater wall north of the arctic circle? I'm sure that's news to him.
MMLandJ

Monroe, NC

#127721 Mar 18, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
I get it already - people will try anything to legitimize the "divine wisdom" of the "Holy" Bible.
The bible has been legitimized as a source of spiritual comfort and inspiration for millenia, and will continue to do so into the future.
ChromiuMan wrote:
The Noah story was just adopted from earlier Sumerian legends.
How does this diminish what the flood story provides?
ChromiuMan wrote:
It is certainly possible there actually was an exceptional local flood at some point that formed the foundation of that legend but it would have had nothing to do with the book of Genesis and even less to do with Elohim.
Genesis tells the stories of how the ancients thought life came to be, and their relationships with God. So a flood (parable) that has to do with God protecting humankind when the mind is flooded with the falsities of evil that threaten to drown out spiritual life, would most certainly be relevant.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#127722 Mar 18, 2014
MMLandJ wrote:
<quoted text>
The bible has been legitimized as a source of spiritual comfort and inspiration for millenia, and will continue to do so into the future.
<quoted text>
How does this diminish what the flood story provides?
<quoted text>
Genesis tells the stories of how the ancients thought life came to be, and their relationships with God. So a flood (parable) that has to do with God protecting humankind when the mind is flooded with the falsities of evil that threaten to drown out spiritual life, would most certainly be relevant.
First, you have to start with the supposition that there >is< a humanoid god that created all of time and space for his pet tribe of humans. 0.o
I'm not buying some glorious variation on a conspiracy theory that a god is talking to you through a book.
I had a literature professor once who was convinced every single line of Shakespeare had deep and hidden meaning and triple innuendos. I was never much impressed with him, either.
MMLandJ

Monroe, NC

#127723 Mar 18, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
First, you have to start with the supposition that there >is< a humanoid god that created all of time and space for his pet tribe of humans. 0.o
Why do you think God is a "humanoid?"

Can you tell me where the "body containing all mass, energy, and spacetime in the Universe that would be compressed to an infinitely dense point resulting in the Big Bang, came from?
ChromiuMan wrote:
I'm not buying some glorious variation on a conspiracy theory that a god is talking to you through a book.
Did I say or imply that God was talking to me thru the Bible?
ChromiuMan wrote:
I had a literature professor once who was convinced every single line of Shakespeare had deep and hidden meaning and triple innuendos. I was never much impressed with him, either.
I am not posting to "impress" anyone. Whether or not you accept the parable of Noah's flood, the sun will still come up tomorrow and God will still be with you.
MMLandJ

Monroe, NC

#127724 Mar 18, 2014
KAB wrote:
What does the flood in the Noachian Flood account represent?
I guess this is where you begin your attempt to analyze this parable, "one line at a time." Sorry - but I'm not playing your game.
Until you can present evidence which confirms a global flood 2500 BC, Noah's flood can only be a parable.

MMLandJ

Monroe, NC

#127725 Mar 18, 2014
KAB wrote:
I don't know of any such flood of data (Hebrews 4:12).
Thank you for your answer, and the scripture.
MMLandJ

Monroe, NC

#127726 Mar 18, 2014
KAB wrote:
To what does the flood in the Noachian Flood account refer other than water?
I guess this is where you begin your attempt to analyze this parable, "one line at a time." Sorry - but I'm not playing your game.
Until you can present evidence which confirms a global flood 2500 BC, Noah's flood can only be a parable.
KAB

United States

#127727 Mar 18, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
sigh... what have you been told about bearing false witness again, KAB?
Dogen brought up the notion that 4250+/- years ago it rained for 40 days and 40 nights and dislodged some loose rubble on a remote crater wall north of the arctic circle? I'm sure that's news to him.
No. Oh, close cousin of chronically inattentive one, Dogen brought up this rain,

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TFA...
KAB

United States

#127728 Mar 18, 2014
MMLandJ wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess this is where you begin your attempt to analyze this parable, "one line at a time." Sorry - but I'm not playing your game.
Until you can present evidence which confirms a global flood 2500 BC, Noah's flood can only be a parable.
Yes, once again I have to go it alone. You forget. I'm buoyancy hardened!
As long as we both understand you provided a parable model which doesn't fit since you wanted the flood to be evil flooding out good, but the account has it the other way round.

BTW, thanks for acknowledging you are not interested in analyzing things in detail to get the correct answer. I realize that would be unbearably scientific.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#127729 Mar 18, 2014
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, once again I have to go it alone. You forget. I'm buoyancy hardened!
As long as we both understand you provided a parable model which doesn't fit since you wanted the flood to be evil flooding out good, but the account has it the other way round.
BTW, thanks for acknowledging you are not interested in analyzing things in detail to get the correct answer. I realize that would be unbearably scientific.
That's not analysis.

It's floccinaucinihilpilification.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#127730 Mar 18, 2014
MMLandJ wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you think God is a "humanoid?"
Can you tell me where the "body containing all mass, energy, and spacetime in the Universe that would be compressed to an infinitely dense point resulting in the Big Bang, came from?
<quoted text>
Did I say or imply that God was talking to me thru the Bible?
<quoted text>
I am not posting to "impress" anyone. Whether or not you accept the parable of Noah's flood, the sun will still come up tomorrow and God will still be with you.
Gods are typically modeled after humans. Genesis states man was made in God's image, Jesus is (was, actually and of course) supposedly God's son, etc.
No, I'm not a physicist and I cannot tell you where the Big Bang "came from". As I understand it, the prevailing theory is that "it" existed or emerged with space time. That being the case, cause and effect/before and after/from and to are meaningless terms. Don't ask me, read some Hawking.
Yes. When you interpret that dusty old tome as divinely inspired you are in fact implying that it is a god's vehicle to talk to you.
I do not accept that it is a parable at all, much less any morality lesson you contrive from it.(No doubt you can wring similar lofty insights from Rip Van Winkle and The Five Orange Pips) I think that it was an older Semitic story that the Genesis author(s) felt was too popular and sensational to leave out.
The sun will not come up tomorrow. The Earth will continue to rotate and the sun will come into view. What god? Ra? Shapash? Shamash? Istanu? Utu? I hate to burst your bubble...

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#127731 Mar 18, 2014
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
No. Oh, close cousin of chronically inattentive one, Dogen brought up this rain,
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TFA...
Your 40 x 24 hours of rain proposal far precedes his hard seasonal rains proposal. Having driven on many a cracked and potholed road,(sometimes in the rain) I would go for the ice expansion and thaw proposal, myself.
KAB

Wilson, NC

#127732 Mar 18, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Your 40 x 24 hours of rain proposal far precedes his hard seasonal rains proposal. Having driven on many a cracked and potholed road,(sometimes in the rain) I would go for the ice expansion and thaw proposal, myself.
Isn't it ironic that Dogen is trying to refure the flood with rain?!

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#127733 Mar 18, 2014
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
What does the flood in the Noachian Flood account represent?

Logically, this is a meaningless question for at least 2 reasons:
1. No global flood ever occurred.
2. The flood myth predates Noah and there fore was not his (if a Noah ever existed) flood.

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#127734 Mar 18, 2014
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Out of 1.4 million years, wasn't the slough day a magical day for rain at the Pingualuit crater?!!

No.

You clearly lack the ability to detect sarcasm.

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#127735 Mar 18, 2014
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, perennially inattentive one,
Here's the pertinent part of Chim's post again.
"And now, its objectively obvious that those who reject modern science and cling to these ideas only do so out of fear for their own deaths and the bribe offered by the modern versions of this religion (Christianity, Islam) that if they do what they are told they will escape the finality of death.
So, self deception and fear. Merely an appeal to your lowest impulses dressed up in finery. For which you sacrifice your mind, since your mind knows all too well that there is no evidence on Earth that can save you from your mortality, and you cannot handle that."
Which part of the narative history is that?

You must be kidding.

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