It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the ...

It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

There are 150659 comments on the Asheville Citizen-Times story from Mar 15, 2009, titled It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate. In it, Asheville Citizen-Times reports that:

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Asheville Citizen-Times.

The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#126836 Feb 13, 2014
tangled bank wrote:
The following exchange is an almost exact duplicate from Oct, 2012
<quoted text>
Temporal and morphological sequence of progressively modern human features showing intermediate human/ape forms as required by evolution:
http://darwiniana.org/hominid.htm
http://anthro.palomar.edu/hominid/australo_1....
Temporal and morphological sequence of progressively modern human features showing increasing cranial capacity and larger body size as required by evolution:
http://www.pandasthumb.org/archives/2006/09/f...
http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2006/09/fun-w...
<quoted text>
Please provide the evidence which shows hominid fossils have been fabricated for money.
Well they did it once!

So if any show evolution then they did it again.

Every single one of 'em!

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#126837 Feb 13, 2014
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Then please point to a specific sample of evidence.

Your chronic lying/self deception.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#126838 Feb 13, 2014
mrksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>Ok, and I can accept that. Then micro evolution is also not observable. Thanks.

It is not that microevolution is not observable. It is that it is much harder to observe than macroevolution.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#126839 Feb 13, 2014
mrksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>GOD didn't create fossils that proved evolution. Fossils don't show organisms changing and adapting.....especially into something different. All a fossil can prove is that something once existed, died, and left an image of itself. THey do not show heritage. That is artistic interpretation.

No, that is the weight of the evidence. That is how the scientific method works.

If you understood the scientific method you would know that.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#126840 Feb 13, 2014
mrksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>I have no problem with your position, but Piltdown did not help your cause of supporting human from non-human evolution. And it was proclaimed by many scientists and teachers for years as the missing link.
"Whoever perpetrated the crime, it is considered to be one of the most damaging scientific hoaxes of all time, because it set the development of evolutionary theory back for years while researchers labored pointlessly to integrate a fake skull into the fossil record."
http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/archive/pe...
Piltdown was influential because it was taught as a missing link in textbooks.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups...
And it also shows that scientific interpretation concerning specimens can be wrong, and be accepted although wrong, for many years.

So we should condemn Christianity because some so called Christians have committed awful crimes? What Christians have done through out history is FAR FAR worse than a fossil error.

And if you want to reject Christians that commit these crimes as not really being christians then we can do the same to the fossil hoaxers with a clear conscious.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#126841 Feb 13, 2014
mrksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>I understand it, and how it defines differing life forms. I don't see how you can take one example, and propose that it was the descendant for another.

LOL. It is not ONE example. It is many examples.

“The love of Paleontology:”

Since: Jan 14

Discover, explore, imagine.

#126842 Feb 13, 2014
mrksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>GOD didn't create fossils that proved evolution. Fossils don't show organisms changing and adapting.....especially into something different. All a fossil can prove is that something once existed, died, and left an image of itself. THey do not show heritage. That is artistic interpretation.
But wait a sec...fossils DO prove evolution. There are tons, TONS of fossil of organisms that have changed and EVOLVED to suite their ever changing world. For example Australopithecus to humans: there are so many fossils showing animals in the evolution line between us and Australopithecus. Fossils do show organisms changing AND adapting. Like the fossils of the first fish-like organisms to grow legs, that shows them adapting: evolving lungs, growing legs, and so on. And furthermore fossils show something that existed and died MILLIONS of years ago, long before Noah's Arc was said to have come along. Also, Dinosaurs weren't even in the Bible! Do you not believe in them because the Bible did not mention them?
SupaAFC

Elgin, UK

#126843 Feb 14, 2014
Marksman,

Are you running away again? Are you basically admitting that your side are still waiting for the coming of the evolution-busting messiah because nobody for the time being can remotely refute evolution and get it kicked out of science?

What about your poll? Did you get round to reading the whole page instead of just the bits you like?

In your own time.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#126844 Feb 14, 2014
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#126845 Feb 14, 2014
PaleoGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
But wait a sec...fossils DO prove evolution. There are tons, TONS of fossil of organisms that have changed and EVOLVED to suite their ever changing world. For example Australopithecus to humans: there are so many fossils showing animals in the evolution line between us and Australopithecus. Fossils do show organisms changing AND adapting. Like the fossils of the first fish-like organisms to grow legs, that shows them adapting: evolving lungs, growing legs, and so on. And furthermore fossils show something that existed and died MILLIONS of years ago, long before Noah's Arc was said to have come along. Also, Dinosaurs weren't even in the Bible! Do you not believe in them because the Bible did not mention them?
Oh hai noob! Welcome to teh forum!

;-)

Just to let you know Markie's a chronic liar for Jesus with an extreme case of Black Knight syndrome. Words have as much affect on him as evidence.
marksman11

Asheville, NC

#126846 Feb 14, 2014
PaleoGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Also, Dinosaurs weren't even in the Bible! Do you not believe in them because the Bible did not mention them?
Sorry but you don't know what you are talking about concerning fossils, or the bible. THis was written in Job before anyone ever heard of a fossil.
Job 40 Behemoth
15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
24 He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.
Job 41
1 Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?
2 Canst thou put an hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a thorn?
3 Will he make many supplications unto thee? will he speak soft words unto thee?
4 Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant for ever?
5 Wilt thou play with him as with a bird? or wilt thou bind him for thy maidens?
6 Shall the companions make a banquet of him? shall they part him among the merchants?
7 Canst thou fill his skin with barbed irons? or his head with fish spears?
8 Lay thine hand upon him, remember the battle, do no more.
9 Behold, the hope of him is in vain: shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him?
10 None is so fierce that dare stir him up: who then is able to stand before me?
11 Who hath prevented me, that I should repay him? whatsoever is under the whole heaven is mine.
12 I will not conceal his parts, nor his power, nor his comely proportion.
13 Who can discover the face of his garment? or who can come to him with his double bridle?
14 Who can open the doors of his face? his teeth are terrible round about.
15 His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.
16 One is so near to another, that no air can come between them.
17 They are joined one to another, they stick together, that they cannot be sundered.
18 By his neesings a light doth shine, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.
19 Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.
20 Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.
21 His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.
22 In his neck remaineth strength, and sorrow is turned into joy before him.
23 The flakes of his flesh are joined together: they are firm in themselves; they cannot be moved.
24 His heart is as firm as a stone; yea, as hard as a piece of the nether millstone.
25 When he raiseth up himself, the mighty are afraid: by reason of breakings they purify themselves.
26 The sword of him that layeth at him cannot hold: the spear, the dart, nor the habergeon.
27 He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood.
28 The arrow cannot make him flee: slingstones are turned with him into stubble.
29 Darts are counted as stubble: he laugheth at the shaking of a spear.
30 Sharp stones are under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire.
31 He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.
32 He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#126847 Feb 14, 2014
mrksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>GOD didn't create fossils that proved evolution.
You don't know that.
mrksman11 wrote:
Fossils don't show organisms changing and adapting.....especially into something different
They do.
mrksman11 wrote:
All a fossil can prove is that something once existed, died, and left an image of itself. THey do not show heritage.
Spam. We've been over this a hundred times.
mrksman11 wrote:
That is artistic interpretation.
And your is a fundie interpretation. Based on nothing more than wishful thinking.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#126848 Feb 14, 2014
mrksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>I have no problem with your position, but Piltdown did not help your cause of supporting human from non-human evolution. And it was proclaimed by many scientists and teachers for years as the missing link.
"Whoever perpetrated the crime, it is considered to be one of the most damaging scientific hoaxes of all time, because it set the development of evolutionary theory back for years while researchers labored pointlessly to integrate a fake skull into the fossil record."
http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/archive/pe...
Piltdown was influential because it was taught as a missing link in textbooks.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups...
And it also shows that scientific interpretation concerning specimens can be wrong, and be accepted although wrong, for many years.
More spam. We've been over this many times.

You know dam right well that Piltdown was disputed from the very beginning. I will grant you that there were those too quick to jump on the bandwagon - mostly for nationalistic reasons. But it was never taken as 'gospel' by many others. The science simply wasn't available until much later to definitively prove it a fake.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#126849 Feb 14, 2014
mrksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>I didn't say they were. That was Mike. I took his word for it. Ask him.
Bullshit. I specifically disputed your reference to human evolution. Pretty desperate when you have to make shit up.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#126850 Feb 14, 2014
mrksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>I know you are not stupid. But I also know you definitely are biased.
Cause you say so? Prove it.
marksman11

Asheville, NC

#126851 Feb 14, 2014
SupaAFC wrote:
Marksman,
Are you running away again?
Why would I run away from you?
SupaAFC wrote:
Marksman,Are you basically admitting that your side are still waiting for the coming of the evolution-busting messiah because nobody for the time being can remotely refute evolution and get it kicked out of science?
It's not kicked out of science but I've refuted it for years. It's the biggest scientific hoax in history, but the tide is beginning to turn. Just today....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-20707...

Evolution may be banned in US schools

The word "evolution" will be removed from school books in the deep south of the United States under a new proposal.

Todays huffington post....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-zimmerm...

Feb 10th, 2014
http://ncse.com/news/2014/02/fair-treatment-e...

At its February 10, 2014, meeting, the South Carolina Education Oversight Committee approved a new set of science standards for South Carolina with the exception of a clause involving the phrase "natural selection." According to the Charleston Post and Courier (February 10, 2014), Senator Mike Fair (R-District 6) explained, "Natural selection is a direct reference to Darwinism. And the implication of Darwinism is that it is start to finish." He added, "To teach that natural selection is the answer to origins is wrong.

Feb 7th. 2014
http://ncse.com/news/2014/02/update-from-miss...

Missouri's House Bill 1472, which would require school districts to allow parents to have their children excused from learning about evolution, is in the headlines, after the bill was referred to the House Committee on Elementary and Secondary Education on February 3, 2014.

Feb 7th. 2014
http://ncse.com/news/2014/02/reid-branch-conf...
With the recent debate between Bill Nye "The Science Guy" and Ken Ham of Answers in Genesis attracting as many as three million viewers, it is likely that interest in creationism/evolution debates will skyrocket.

Seoul South Korea
http://www.nature.com/news/south-korea-surren...

Mention creationism, and many scientists think of the United States, where efforts to limit the teaching of evolution have made headway in a couple of states1. But the successes are modest compared with those in South Korea, where the anti-evolution sentiment seems to be winning its battle with mainstream science.

Your move!!!

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#126852 Feb 14, 2014
mrksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>Dawson<quoted text>England<quoted text>dec 18th, 1912<quoted text>Google works pretty good..... thanks but my knowledge of banjos is limited....:-)
Having trouble keeping Pilddown and fake Chinese fossils straight? Try using Post-Its.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#126853 Feb 14, 2014
PaleoGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
But wait a sec...fossils DO prove evolution. There are tons, TONS of fossil of organisms that have changed and EVOLVED to suite their ever changing world. For example Australopithecus to humans: there are so many fossils showing animals in the evolution line between us and Australopithecus. Fossils do show organisms changing AND adapting. Like the fossils of the first fish-like organisms to grow legs, that shows them adapting: evolving lungs, growing legs, and so on. And furthermore fossils show something that existed and died MILLIONS of years ago, long before Noah's Arc was said to have come along. Also, Dinosaurs weren't even in the Bible! Do you not believe in them because the Bible did not mention them?
You have to understand that Marky is incapable of making the conceptual jump from looking at a single fossil to looking at thousands.
marksman11

Asheville, NC

#126854 Feb 14, 2014
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
More spam. We've been over this many times.
You know dam right well that Piltdown was disputed from the very beginning. I will grant you that there were those too quick to jump on the bandwagon - mostly for nationalistic reasons.
The Piltdown man fraud significantly affected early research on human evolution.[21] Notably, it led scientists down a blind alley in the belief that the human brain expanded in size before the jaw adapted to new types of food. Discoveries of Australopithecine fossils such as the Taung child found by Raymond Dart during the 1920s in South Africa were ignored due to the support for Piltdown man as "the missing link", and the reconstruction of human evolution was confused for decades. The examination and debate over Piltdown man caused a vast expenditure of time and effort on the fossil, with an estimated 250+ papers written on the topic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piltdown_Man

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#126855 Feb 14, 2014
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>Sorry but you don't know what you are talking about concerning fossils, or the bible. THis was written in Job before anyone ever heard of a fossil.
Job 40 Behemoth
15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
24 He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.
Job 41
1 Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?
2 Canst thou put an hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a thorn?
3 Will he make many supplications unto thee? will he speak soft words unto thee?
4 Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant for ever?
5 Wilt thou play with him as with a bird? or wilt thou bind him for thy maidens?
6 Shall the companions make a banquet of him? shall they part him among the merchants?
7 Canst thou fill his skin with barbed irons? or his head with fish spears?
8 Lay thine hand upon him, remember the battle, do no more.
9 Behold, the hope of him is in vain: shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him?
10 None is so fierce that dare stir him up: who then is able to stand before me?
11 Who hath prevented me, that I should repay him? whatsoever is under the whole heaven is mine.
12 I will not conceal his parts, nor his power, nor his comely proportion.
13 Who can discover the face of his garment? or who can come to him with his double bridle?
14 Who can open the doors of his face? his teeth are terrible round about.
15 His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.
16 One is so near to another, that no air can come between them.
17 They are joined one to another, they stick together, that they cannot be sundered.
18 By his neesings a light doth shine, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.
19 Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.
20 Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.
21 His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.
22 In his neck remaineth strength, and sorrow is turned into joy before him.
23 The flakes of his flesh are joined together: they are firm in themselves; they cannot be moved.
24 His heart is as firm as a stone; yea, as hard as a piece of the nether millstone.
25 When he raiseth up himself, the mighty are afraid: by reason of breakings they purify themselves.
26 The sword of him that layeth at him cannot hold: the spear, the dart, nor the habergeon.
27 He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood.
28 The arrow cannot make him flee: slingstones are turned with him into stubble.
29 Darts are counted as stubble: he laugheth at the shaking of a spear.
30 Sharp stones are under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire.
31 He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.
32 He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary.
And they obviously used the word "behemoth" because the desert dwelling folks didn't have a word for "lizard".

Pfft

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