It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the ...

It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

There are 152127 comments on the Asheville Citizen-Times story from Mar 15, 2009, titled It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate. In it, Asheville Citizen-Times reports that:

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Asheville Citizen-Times.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#125791 Jan 15, 2014
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Objective??? Use used the word objective? LMAO!

A little like honor among thieves.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#125792 Jan 15, 2014
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
A little like honor among thieves.
What? Where?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#125793 Jan 15, 2014
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Here are the pertinent verses as provided by Kong,
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night:[he made] the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that [it was] good.
What does it say he made the Sun, Moon, and stars to do?
Sun: rule the day
Moon: rule the night
Stars: not specified other than the generic preface to serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years

We going back to how the sun, moon and stars were hidden behind his back that you proposed some time ago?

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#125794 Jan 15, 2014
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Sun: rule the day
Moon: rule the night
Stars: not specified other than the generic preface to serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years
We going back to how the sun, moon and stars were hidden behind his back that you proposed some time ago?
I'm wondering how the Sun and moon were visible at all with those gigatons of water suspended in the atmosphere just waiting for Da Flud. Any guesses what the atmospheric pressure at sea level was in those days?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#125795 Jan 15, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm wondering how the Sun and moon were visible at all with those gigatons of water suspended in the atmosphere just waiting for Da Flud. Any guesses what the atmospheric pressure at sea level was in those days?
A bit of an internal inconsistency, wouldn't you say?

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#125796 Jan 15, 2014
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
A bit of an internal inconsistency, wouldn't you say?
The internal inconsistencies are consistent throughout, therefore it is a demonstrated reliable source? Maybe that's KAB's inescapable logic (from the veritable wet paper bag.)

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#125797 Jan 15, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
The internal inconsistencies are consistent throughout, therefore it is a demonstrated reliable source? Maybe that's KAB's inescapable logic (from the veritable wet paper bag.)
Makes as much sense any anything else he says.
KAB

Orlando, FL

#125798 Jan 15, 2014
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
God made the earth and vegetation before he made the sun and moon - Genesis.
Wrong.
Yes, you are wrong, and you cited no specific data to confirm otherwise.
KAB

Orlando, FL

#125799 Jan 15, 2014
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Still no hypothesis from you regarding how current genetic diversity in mtDNA can originate from n=3 4500 years ago.
Genesis starts out very clearly, and gets the order wrong. End of that story.
Surely you jest, thinking you can datalessly bring an end to the story.
KAB

Orlando, FL

#125800 Jan 15, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
14 And God said,“Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
"What does it say he made the Sun, Moon, and stars to do?"
Nothing of any real importance.(According to Gen 1:3 there was already light without them.) It's a safe bet that Hanukkah and Passover.have a negligible impact on climate, weather, photosynthesis, tides, orbits,....
Besides again demonstrating that you have no point to speak of, what was your point, KAB?
The data's been provided, including by you. Nothing more is needed unless you have additional specific questions about specific data.
KAB

Orlando, FL

#125801 Jan 15, 2014
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Sun: rule the day
Moon: rule the night
Stars: not specified other than the generic preface to serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years
We going back to how the sun, moon and stars were hidden behind his back that you proposed some time ago?
Everything harmonizes perfectly with physical reality when everything after verse 1 is viewed from the perspective of the earth, which is what the context indicates is intended to be the case.
KAB

Orlando, FL

#125802 Jan 15, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm wondering how the Sun and moon were visible at all with those gigatons of water suspended in the atmosphere just waiting for Da Flud. Any guesses what the atmospheric pressure at sea level was in those days?
Is your wondering supposed to constitute a refutation? It doesn't.

“Help religion science wander”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

into the night.

#125803 Jan 15, 2014
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Surely you jest, thinking you can datalessly bring an end to the story.
Well you have presented an hypothesis. That is data enough.

“Help religion science wander”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

into the night.

#125804 Jan 15, 2014
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, you are wrong, and you cited no specific data to confirm otherwise.
I see data. This is just another lie and dodge by KAB. Duck, dodge, dip, dive and dodge. You should be on duck dynasty.

“Help religion science wander”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

into the night.

#125805 Jan 15, 2014
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
The data's been provided, including by you. Nothing more is needed unless you have additional specific questions about specific data.
No one here is going to ask you questions on the interpretation of data. They know better. You could get more and better information from a rock.

By the way, all the data was provided by Chimney and I think Kong and Dogen.

Based on that data, you lose.

“Help religion science wander”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

into the night.

#125806 Jan 15, 2014
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Everything harmonizes perfectly with physical reality when everything after verse 1 is viewed from the perspective of the earth, which is what the context indicates is intended to be the case.
In other words if you disregard the facts, you can get anything to agree.

“Help religion science wander”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

into the night.

#125807 Jan 15, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm wondering how the Sun and moon were visible at all with those gigatons of water suspended in the atmosphere just waiting for Da Flud. Any guesses what the atmospheric pressure at sea level was in those days?
I'd say it would be enough to make hot, flat plant and animal pancakes.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#125808 Jan 15, 2014
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
You take it incorrectly. Here's the core of my hypothesis, again,
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TFA...
A cut and paste would be easier. So I take it you mean this:

"We both acknowledge a high raw mutation rate. Beyond that neither you nor I can dictate which changes survived. What we know with some confidence is that the driver for generating the current hap tree in 4500 years is present. Obviously, all the changes which are there survived, and there is comparable content from both the control and coding regions. That's all we know for sure."

Clearly, this is exactly what my postings have answered and thrown out the window.

The REASONS that certain regions have high specificity and thus low survival rates for mutation have not changed in the last 4500 years. That's not dictating, that is both logic and empirical evidence. As already explained.

Want to answer my points, or do you accept them? Or do you just fail to see the connections I have already explained?

And if this is the wrong post, then post your argument properly and stop this linking to a whole topix page leaving me to guess WHICH of your posts on that page is your hypothesis.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#125809 Jan 15, 2014
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Surely you jest, thinking you can datalessly bring an end to the story.
The data has already been presented.

1. The mechanism by which new alleles can become fixed

2. The actual hierarchy of changes as tabulated by the experts to date

3. The rate of mutation in the relevant regions of the mtDNA genome

4. Calculation of possible scenarios that would try to squeeze this hierarchy into 4500 years based on the known rate of variations in the relevant areas. And why such calculations never produce the results you want, but deliver instead a tree with a 150,000 years history. Dramatically altering the assumptions based on high growth rates after 4500 years ago, shortening generation time, etc, still do not compress this to anywhere near 4500 years. You do realise that 150,000 years is 33 TIMES longer than 4500 right?

5. The reasons why the rates of change would not have altered significantly and the empirical data (e.g. the structure of cytochrome-C showing that the rates did not change significantly in the last 4500 years, and why.

What data is missing?
What logic is missing?

Unfortunately for your delusions, my memory is long enough to stretch back over the last 6 months and I know that step by step, these data and processes were presented and not refuted successfully by you.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#125810 Jan 15, 2014
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, you are wrong, and you cited no specific data to confirm otherwise.
I am wrong to criticise a myth that claimed God created vegetation before He created the Sun and the Moon?

And I failed to present any specific data?

Where to begin?

The entire edifice of geology, astronomy, cosmology, biology, and physics contradict you!

Open ANY science textbook and start reading. There is an entire understanding, built from innumerable independently converging lines of evidence, that say your myth got it back to front. They did not, from the outset, set out to falsify your myth, and in fact early naturalists were looking for evidence to support it. But that is NOT what the physical universe tells us.

Your rote objection based on "data" is simply laughable in this case.

A question. Which is easier to fake / get wrong....

1, A book written by primitives with little understanding of science and cosmology...say, the Bhagavad Gita, or the Torah....words written following an oral tradition of centuries out of stories that had circulated and changed to suit the conditions of the day etc

OR

2. Thousands of scientists over many decades using more and more advanced methods of observation, making claims that are open to debate and are torn apart by their colleagues if there is any error in observation, method, or logic, demanding that any new claim be internally consistent and not violate any facts already tested....

If you think (1), you are a lunatic.

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