It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the ...

It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

There are 151011 comments on the Asheville Citizen-Times story from Mar 15, 2009, titled It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate. In it, Asheville Citizen-Times reports that:

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Asheville Citizen-Times.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#121698 Oct 24, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
You asked for age appropriate flood evidence. That's what you got.
age appropriate global flooding? the proven myth of the Noachian flood is still a proven myth...imagine that.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#121699 Oct 25, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Spreadsheets possess no special powers.
Actually they do. They force one to turn vague ideas into specifics, to really think through the nuts'n'bolts of a problem.

You can say, KAB, "Oh there just had to be enough mutation at the right time in the right circumstances, and you have these migrations containing only the newer level haptypes and all the old ones die off in the population left behind....etc.etc.etc...

But when you are forced to sit down and work through these scenarios using the data we know and reasonable assumptions... then you see WHY your scenarios do not work.
They give results based on what the formulas tell them to give.
Correct. So when you put the formulas in, you are confronted with the need to make them realistic. Nuts n bolts.
As you note, you have made assumptions. They may not be adequate/appropriate/valid.
Yes, but also note that where I have stretched assumptions, I have generally done it in a direction that would favour YOUR position, not mine. And it still did not work.
You didn't change the assumptions in every way to suit me, and I have identified what hasn't suited me.
I did everything I could think of that would work for YOU. Such as doubling population every generation from the flood for as long as possible consistent with 7 bn people alive today. Such as assuming pure random mixing across the whole population which favours you not me (because it allows wider dispersal of new haptypes faster).
Nonetheless, what does your crystal spreadsheet tell you should be the proportion of the mtDNA genome which should be mutated over a period of 4500 years...?
We are not talking about a "proportion of the mtDNA genome". We are talking about point mutations etc on that genome. That means a single base difference can amount to a new haplotype.

The difficulty you have is in explaining why all the older haptypes are gone. Some should remain if all but 3 ancestral haps have been generated since 4500 years ago. And remember its not only the oldest. Several generations of haptypes are no longer present but their existence is understood by the distribution of changes in the daughter types which do exist.

I cannot make your hypothesis work. Of course there is more to it than just my puny effort - all of modern genetics cannot make it work even when "creation scientists" try.

What saddens me is that while real science is building an ever deeper understanding of the true history and migration patterns of human populations over the real time scales (ditto physics, biology, geology, astronomy etc) involved, that you guys lock yourselves in the cage of biblical literalism when we have discovered so many more exciting and awesome things about the universe we live in.

None of that means you HAVE to abandon God, or even abandon the moral sense of the Bible. But taking the Bible literally? That is just silly.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#121700 Oct 25, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
You asked for age appropriate flood evidence. That's what you got.
As already agreed, its not flood evidence if non flood explanations are just as viable. You need to find something that is hard to explain without a global WW flood.

On the other hand, not just haptypes but ice cores, the atacama desert, archeological finds, known methods of sedimentation etc etc, are evidence against a global flood because it is hard to explain them in the context of one.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#121701 Oct 25, 2013
KAB wrote:
You didn't change the assumptions in every way to suit me, and I have identified what hasn't suited me.
We got to the point where you were asking the following:

What if in a migration, all the new haptypes were concentrated in the migrating part and all the old haptypes were retained in the population left behind (statistically totally improbable), and the part that migrated thrived but the one left behind died out, and this statistically improbable scenario played out not just once but repeatedly all over the world, time after time etc etc.

That is where you had reached. In other words, you had reached absurdity in the attempt to make the data fit your scenario.

Now, unless you can think of something more realistic, your scenario is falsified.
KAB

United States

#121702 Oct 25, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Which has happened exactly zero times.
Here's an entry point to recent instances on two pages of you going belly-up upon being confronted with confirming data.

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TFA...
KAB

United States

#121703 Oct 25, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Dogen again calls it. The link you presented was no more in support of you then, than it is now. No global floods, just references to high magnitude floods and the impact on alluvial fans (deltas). High magnitude does not mean world wide. The flood of 1993 on the Mississippi and Missouri Rivers was high magnitude. Didn't cover the state, let alone the world.
When it comes to the flood, you are fountain of ignorance.
It is age appropriate worldwide flood data. That's all it was offered as.
KAB

United States

#121704 Oct 25, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>age appropriate global flooding? the proven myth of the Noachian flood is still a proven myth...imagine that.
All flood evidence is local, isn't it? Think about it.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#121705 Oct 25, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's an entry point to recent instances on two pages of you going belly-up upon being confronted with confirming data.
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TFA...
Belly up? My refusal to take your delusional claims seriously? Don't be stupid.

Oh...

Right...

It's KAB.

Carry on being stupid. It's what you're best at anyway.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#121706 Oct 25, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
All flood evidence is local, isn't it? Think about it.
Word Weasel strikes again.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#121707 Oct 25, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Belly up? My refusal to take your delusional claims seriously? Don't be stupid.
Oh...
Right...
It's KAB.
Carry on being stupid. It's what you're best at anyway.
After confronting these Topix religies for a couple years now, I'm still searching for that one piece of scripture that lends them any credence...
Which Psalm is it that says, "Blessed is the batshit crazy, for God surely loves Him some pig-headed scheming and conniving."

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#121708 Oct 25, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
After confronting these Topix religies for a couple years now, I'm still searching for that one piece of scripture that lends them any credence...
Which Psalm is it that says, "Blessed is the batshit crazy, for God surely loves Him some pig-headed scheming and conniving."
It's the one right after the one that says "Blessed are the clueless for they shall wander the face of the Earth all the days of their lives crying "Huh? What?"

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#121709 Oct 25, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
It is age appropriate worldwide flood data. That's all it was offered as.
It is data of localized floods from different points in the world. Not evidence of a single, global flood.

No one is arguing that floods don't happen or haven't happened, but thanks for providing evidence to refute an undisputed point. On rare occasions you do provide data.

Is that like the Son of Sam pointing out all the people that he didn't kill as evidence that he isn't a killer.

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#121710 Oct 25, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
It's the one right after the one that says "Blessed are the clueless for they shall wander the face of the Earth all the days of their lives crying "Huh? What?"
Props!

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#121711 Oct 25, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
After confronting these Topix religies for a couple years now, I'm still searching for that one piece of scripture that lends them any credence...
Which Psalm is it that says, "Blessed is the batshit crazy, for God surely loves Him some pig-headed scheming and conniving."
Props!

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#121712 Oct 25, 2013
Yes, I gave out judgeits. How am I going to face my arch nemesis now?

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#121713 Oct 25, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
All flood evidence is local, isn't it? Think about it.
That ward that you live in at the "home", there doesn't happen to be a middle-aged math teacher from Texas in the next bunk by any chance?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#121714 Oct 25, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's an entry point to recent instances on two pages of you going belly-up upon being confronted with confirming data.
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TFA...

Sorry, this is just a lie.

You have no cred left.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#121715 Oct 25, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
After confronting these Topix religies for a couple years now, I'm still searching for that one piece of scripture that lends them any credence...
Which Psalm is it that says, "Blessed is the batshit crazy, for God surely loves Him some pig-headed scheming and conniving."

Blessed are the morons for they shall never comprehend how ignorant they are.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#121716 Oct 25, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
All flood evidence is local, isn't it? Think about it.

No. Actually it isn't.

Demonstrating your ignorance yet again is complete overkill.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#121717 Oct 25, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
It is age appropriate worldwide flood data. That's all it was offered as.

So Epic Fail it is then.

Next!

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Evolution Debate Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Atheism, for Good Reason, Fears Questions (Jun '09) 3 min jollyroger 13,329
News "Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really T... (Jan '12) 3 min Chimney1 31,378
News Evolution vs. Creation (Jul '11) 4 hr Blitzking 197,534
Rome Viharo debunks evolution 7 hr Paul Porter1 2
Evolution in action May 27 MIDutch 1
News RANT: Is "global warming" today's version of th... May 25 bearings 2
Another "gap" gets closed May 24 MIDutch 1
More from around the web