It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the ...

It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

There are 166297 comments on the Asheville Citizen-Times story from Mar 15, 2009, titled It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate. In it, Asheville Citizen-Times reports that:

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Asheville Citizen-Times.

KAB

United States

#121665 Oct 23, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Piffle. You think I'm going to waste an hour laying it out in baby talk just so that you can play your typical ostrich routine? The chronology indicates Methuselah was born before duh flud and died after it. The chronology indicates Babel was built within a few generations of duh flud waters subsiding. Don't blame me for you not knowing your own tome. Don't blame me for your ignoring that which eclipses your personal "Truths" - FROM YOUR OWN TOME.
The chronology indicates neither thing you assert. There, we're data even.

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#121666 Oct 23, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
The chronology indicates neither thing you assert. There, we're data even.

Sorry, this is incorrect. Just because the data is not provided in every single post does not mean the data is not there.

The data has been presented. Like a typical Watchtower cult member you lie in the most chronic fashion.

Flud - per you - 4,500 ybp.

For the era of the tower of bable I refer you to Genesis 10 and 11.

7 generations from Noah to Nimrod.

You can count them if you like.




“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#121667 Oct 23, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
You didn't use my book. You made a glancing allusion to it. That's not providing specific citation data confirming your assertion.

See my post above.

You lost again.

You should be used to it by now.

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#121668 Oct 23, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for your assertions. Now provide one specific example of evidence only consistent with a non global flood scenario.
BTW, I agree that evidence consistent with multiple hypotheses is not evidence for one over the other. I'll remind you of that when you next put evidence in the non global flood hypothesis column which is not inconsistent (i.e., non-confirming) with a global flood hypothesis.

Nothing is consistent with a global flood. Global flood "evidence" is completely piecemeal.

There is no actual evidence for a global flood. Further, we have refuted that notion (not a hypothesis) multiple times with multiple lines of evidence.

All land animals should have a CLEAR (NEE) bottleneck, yet they don't.

There should be a global sedimentary layer that dates to 4,500 ybp, and there isn't.

"evidences" (falsely so called) for the flood do not date to the same time period.

Genetically there is too much diversity for the time period involved.

All these have been demonstrated.

You lost every one.

You can pretend, for your own sake, that the above is not true, but the REAL EVIDENCE is against you.

I guess your cult lied to you and you gobbled it up like the goober you are.

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#121669 Oct 23, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh crap.
This again.
KAB....back up the record 6 months ago.

Yes, he lost so he thinks he can simply hit rewind.

trouble is he CAN. There is no honesty filter on topix. Nothing that prevents one from repeating lies till the proverbial cows come home.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#121670 Oct 23, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
The chronology indicates neither thing you assert. There, we're data even.
Ostrich act again.
KAB

Wilson, NC

#121671 Oct 23, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, this is incorrect. Just because the data is not provided in every single post does not mean the data is not there.
The data has been presented. Like a typical Watchtower cult member you lie in the most chronic fashion.
Flud - per you - 4,500 ybp.
For the era of the tower of bable I refer you to Genesis 10 and 11.
7 generations from Noah to Nimrod.
You can count them if you like.
How many does it take to begin to build a tower?
KAB

Wilson, NC

#121672 Oct 23, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Nothing is consistent with a global flood. Global flood "evidence" is completely piecemeal.
There is no actual evidence for a global flood. Further, we have refuted that notion (not a hypothesis) multiple times with multiple lines of evidence.
All land animals should have a CLEAR (NEE) bottleneck, yet they don't.
There should be a global sedimentary layer that dates to 4,500 ybp, and there isn't.
"evidences" (falsely so called) for the flood do not date to the same time period.
Genetically there is too much diversity for the time period involved.
All these have been demonstrated.
You lost every one.
You can pretend, for your own sake, that the above is not true, but the REAL EVIDENCE is against you.
I guess your cult lied to you and you gobbled it up like the goober you are.
All global flood evidence examples I have provided date to the same timeframe. Otherwise, I wouldn't provide them.

“Merry Christmas”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Happy New Year

#121673 Oct 23, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
All global flood evidence examples I have provided date to the same timeframe. Otherwise, I wouldn't provide them.
You haven't provided any evidence. You just toss word salad and run.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#121674 Oct 24, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for your assertions. Now provide one specific example of evidence only consistent with a non global flood scenario.
BTW, I agree that evidence consistent with multiple hypotheses is not evidence for one over the other. I'll remind you of that when you next put evidence in the non global flood hypothesis column which is not inconsistent (i.e., non-confirming) with a global flood hypothesis.
Thid whole haplotype discussion and the amount of genetic diversity existing in most of today's creatures is evidence inconsistent with your flood scenario.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#121675 Oct 24, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
You have not yet succeeded in confirming your assertion(s) regarding human diversity generation. Let's continue that discussion where we left it.
You seem to think that if you provide an explanation it is golden. Are you unfamiliar with the phenomenon of incorrect/invalid explanation? What I am finding interesting is people who don't grasp complex material correctly, and isolate what they do know and spin it to support their view as if the info they use is the only info in the picture. Many (all?) of these people are not technically savvy and largely just parrot what out of context "tech" bits and pieces they have been fed by others with the same bias.
Now shall we get back to considering the data, all of it?!
Yes, some might parrot the prevailing view without examining it closely. But that is not what we have done here. You have offered multiple scenarios and I have modelled them on spreadsheets. I have even attempted to maje your scenario work - a good scientist considers how his hypothesis can be falsified, not just confirmed.

In any case I did not even start with a hypothesis. I started with 2 chunks of data.

1 / the known rate of hap mutation in mtDNA.
2/ the nested hierarchy of known existing haptypes.

I then made a number of logical and transparent assumptions.

No scenario worked with n=3 5000 years ago.

I then changed the assumptions in every way to suit you. Including raising the mutation rate, playing with different periods and amounts of growth that could turn n=3 to n= 3.5 bn after 4500 years, etc.

Nothing i have done yet works for you. Including the scenario you just re-proposed above.

You could of course build a spreadsheet model of your own and play scenarios to your heart's content. Then you could challenge my "golden explanations".

Why haven't you done that?

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#121676 Oct 24, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>You haven't provided any evidence. You just toss word salad and run.
He has "referenced" a slump in the sidewall of a Canadian crater 100 times and has ignored about 2 dozen distinct facts that debunk the myth. In his mind, that means he has provided 124 pieces of evidence for a global flooding.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#121677 Oct 24, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
How many does it take to begin to build a tower?
Insufficient data for a meaningful answer.

How large (height & base) is said tower?
What materials are to be used?
What tools are available?
Completed in what time frame?

You remember data, don't you?

BTW, word weasel, to "begin to build" (also a very vague reference), it would only take one to "begin".

Please clean this up and resubmit in 30 days.
KAB

United States

#121678 Oct 24, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>You haven't provided any evidence. You just toss word salad and run.
Enjoy this evidence salad:

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TFA...
KAB

United States

#121679 Oct 24, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Thid whole haplotype discussion and the amount of genetic diversity existing in most of today's creatures is evidence inconsistent with your flood scenario.
That discussion is ongoing and has not yet succeeded in confirming your assertion. Are you ready to continue examining the data where we left it?

“Merry Christmas”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Happy New Year

#121680 Oct 24, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Enjoy this evidence salad:
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TFA...
A link to a random page on the thread. I did notice Discords posts. Haven't seen him posting in a long while. Is that your evidence?

I think you need to toss the salad again.
KAB

United States

#121681 Oct 24, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, some might parrot the prevailing view without examining it closely. But that is not what we have done here. You have offered multiple scenarios and I have modelled them on spreadsheets. I have even attempted to maje your scenario work - a good scientist considers how his hypothesis can be falsified, not just confirmed.
In any case I did not even start with a hypothesis. I started with 2 chunks of data.
1 / the known rate of hap mutation in mtDNA.
2/ the nested hierarchy of known existing haptypes.
I then made a number of logical and transparent assumptions.
No scenario worked with n=3 5000 years ago.
I then changed the assumptions in every way to suit you. Including raising the mutation rate, playing with different periods and amounts of growth that could turn n=3 to n= 3.5 bn after 4500 years, etc.
Nothing i have done yet works for you. Including the scenario you just re-proposed above.
You could of course build a spreadsheet model of your own and play scenarios to your heart's content. Then you could challenge my "golden explanations".
Why haven't you done that?
Spreadsheets possess no special powers. They give results based on what the formulas tell them to give.
As you note, you have made assumptions. They may not be adequate/appropriate/valid.
You didn't change the assumptions in every way to suit me, and I have identified what hasn't suited me. You have done what works for you, nothing more. I have challenged everything you have provided.
Nonetheless, what does your crystal spreadsheet tell you should be the proportion of the mtDNA genome which should be mutated over a period of 4500 years, using your mutation rate of one for every 67 participants and arriving at the present population of about 7 billion?

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#121682 Oct 24, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
How many does it take to begin to build a tower?

Bible does not say. I have built lots of towers so 1.

If you want to change the time period you are arguing against your confirmed unreliable source.
KAB

United States

#121683 Oct 24, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Insufficient data for a meaningful answer.
How large (height & base) is said tower?
What materials are to be used?
What tools are available?
Completed in what time frame?
You remember data, don't you?
BTW, word weasel, to "begin to build" (also a very vague reference), it would only take one to "begin".
Please clean this up and resubmit in 30 days.
For once you gave a demonstrably correct answer. The minimum requirement to begin building is one.
No quantified info is documented for the size of the tower.
Brick and bitumen are two materials documented (Gen. 11:3).
There is no record of the tools used.
It was built or being built in the Peleg's day (Gen. 10:25).

BTW, I chose not to wait 30 days.

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#121684 Oct 24, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
All global flood evidence examples I have provided date to the same timeframe. Otherwise, I wouldn't provide them.

Sample time frame +- 10,000 years.

Nice tight shot group there.

You provide them because your delusional belief system compels you to lie to yourself.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Evolution Debate Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News "Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really T... (Jan '12) 36 min Endofdays 87,206
What's your religion? 57 min Endofdays 767
News Why Atheist Richard Dawkins Supports Religious ... (Jun '17) 9 hr superwilly 5,811
Are Asians/whites more evolved? (Sep '07) 14 hr Stargirl 1,822
Scientific Method Feb 15 stinky 20
Evolving A Maze Solving Robot Feb 6 Untangler 2
News Evolution vs. Creation (Jul '11) Feb 1 Rose_NoHo 223,360
More from around the web