It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the ...

It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

There are 160955 comments on the Asheville Citizen-Times story from Mar 15, 2009, titled It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate. In it, Asheville Citizen-Times reports that:

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Asheville Citizen-Times.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#121496 Sep 14, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's consider instead that only 100 migrate and thrive. Probabilistically, the mix in the 100 need not be the same as in the 100,000. Let's also allow that neither the first group nor the second declines to zero, but the old hap virtually disappears in both groups, being a small percentage in the new thriving group and a large percentage in the large declining group.

[bangs head on desk]
KAB

Salisbury, NC

#121497 Sep 14, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Incorrect. I really want to know if you are this stupid intentionally or if your cult had damaged your brain this much.
Here it is by Chim's own hand,

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TFA...

showing you to be WRONG, AGAIN!!!!
KAB

Salisbury, NC

#121498 Sep 14, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
[bangs head on desk]
If I wasn't able to formulate an intelligent answer I might be banging my head on the desk too.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#121499 Sep 14, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Here it is by Chim's own hand,
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TFA...
showing you to be WRONG, AGAIN!!!!

No, that seems to show you are confabulating. Obviously you are confused. What makes you think you can bluff your way out of it?

Did you not understand what I said?

But I guess if you are going to lie you might as well tell bald face lies. Here is the full text of Chimneys post:

" KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Using your hap mutation rate (1/67), which I haven't verified yet, in a stable population we could expect the original haps to have been replaced in roughly 100 generations, correct?

Not far off. Scientists put it at around 3500 years.

And the 1/67 figure I got from some scientific source but cannot remember. You will find it if you look it up. "



BTW, you might want to look at the very next post.

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TFA...

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#121500 Sep 14, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
If I wasn't able to formulate an intelligent answer I might be banging my head on the desk too.

Again, you are either intentionally stupid or stupid for other reasons.

Here is what you said:
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's consider instead that only 100 migrate and thrive. Probabilistically, the mix in the 100 need not be the same as in the 100,000. Let's also allow that neither the first group nor the second declines to zero, but the old hap virtually disappears in both groups, being a small percentage in the new thriving group and a large percentage in the large declining group.

Clearly you are not comprehending OR don't want to comprehend.


KAB

Salisbury, NC

#121501 Sep 14, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, you are either intentionally stupid or stupid for other reasons.
Here is what you said:
<quoted text>
Clearly you are not comprehending OR don't want to comprehend.
It's painfully obvious you didn't/couldn't take issue, via identifying and explaining any specific points of error, with any individual element of my post.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#121502 Sep 14, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
It's painfully obvious you didn't/couldn't take issue, via identifying and explaining any specific points of error, with any individual element of my post.

You asked an ignorant question. That was the issue/error.

If you had understood the material you would not have asked it.

It is painfully obvious that you are very narcissistic and cannot stand being wrong. Does not your cult endorse humility over egotism and arrogance?

That I could be wrong about. Most of the JW I have know have been very egotistical (generally the product of low self esteem and deep feelings of inferiority). It is the low self esteem that got them on the JW hook, most likely. Lots of reinforcement for cattle trotting down the path to the slaughterhouse.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#121503 Sep 15, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
As you have noted, 3500 years is sufficient for a hap to disappear. On that basis, 10 to 15 in 4500 years shouldn't be a problem.
It most certainly would. The layers of the tree rpresent lines of descent.

Eg

XXXabcd came from

XXXXbcd which came from

XXXXXcd which came from

XXXXXd etc for 20 levels.....

Meaning one came after the other. So its going to be roughly speaking

3500 years PLUS 3500 years PLUS 3500 years etc.

This appraoch wont help you

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#121504 Sep 15, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's consider instead that only 100 migrate and thrive. Probabilistically, the mix in the 100 need not be the same as in the 100,000. Let's also allow that neither the first group nor the second declines to zero, but the old hap virtually disappears in both groups, being a small percentage in the new thriving group and a large percentage in the large declining group.
Lets consider this happening once. Now you have to consider it happening 19 times in a row. Not only that, but if it happened then it happened first time around to 3 populations assuming your flood girls each had different hap types. Next time it happened to every one of the branched next lot, 3 times who knows how many. Next time it had to happened to every daughter branch from that . What, 20 times or more. and that is just the third layer. By the 18th layer, you scenarion has to playbout separately, one by one, across the dozens and dozens of haps worldwide....

And we can rule all that out simply on the basis of history.

No KAB, rather than try to bend statistical likelihoods massively out of shape while completely contradicting the history of the last 4000 years, you have to accept that the hap tree proves n=3 4500 years ago is a failed hypothesis. The Bible is wrong about this, like it or not.
KAB

Wilson, NC

#121505 Sep 15, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
You asked an ignorant question. That was the issue/error.
If you had understood the material you would not have asked it.
It is painfully obvious that you are very narcissistic and cannot stand being wrong. Does not your cult endorse humility over egotism and arrogance?
That I could be wrong about. Most of the JW I have know have been very egotistical (generally the product of low self esteem and deep feelings of inferiority). It is the low self esteem that got them on the JW hook, most likely. Lots of reinforcement for cattle trotting down the path to the slaughterhouse.
You still show yourself apparently unable to specifically identify and elaborate on even one element of error/ignorance. There's only one way you can confirm your lack is not as it appears. Alas, even your comrades know what to expect from you.
KAB

Wilson, NC

#121506 Sep 15, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
It most certainly would. The layers of the tree rpresent lines of descent.
Eg
XXXabcd came from
XXXXbcd which came from
XXXXXcd which came from
XXXXXd etc for 20 levels.....
Meaning one came after the other. So its going to be roughly speaking
3500 years PLUS 3500 years PLUS 3500 years etc.
This appraoch wont help you
You've already acknowledged (when you thought it to your advantage) that haps largely run roughly concurrently rather than consecutively. So a broadside of haps each disappearing in roughly 3500 years readily racks up 20 levels in 4500 years.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#121507 Sep 15, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
You still show yourself apparently unable to specifically identify and elaborate on even one element of error/ignorance. There's only one way you can confirm your lack is not as it appears. Alas, even your comrades know what to expect from you.

You have attempted to prove me wrong numerous times.

You have lost every time.

Further you cannot answer questions posed to you.

Everyone is on to your game. Everyone except you, that is.

Why is that, do you think?

Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
You asked an ignorant question. That was the issue/error.
If you had understood the material you would not have asked it.
It is painfully obvious that you are very narcissistic and cannot stand being wrong. Does not your cult endorse humility over egotism and arrogance?
That I could be wrong about. Most of the JW I have know have been very egotistical (generally the product of low self esteem and deep feelings of inferiority). It is the low self esteem that got them on the JW hook, most likely. Lots of reinforcement for cattle trotting down the path to the slaughterhouse.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#121508 Sep 15, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
You've already acknowledged (when you thought it to your advantage) that haps largely run roughly concurrently rather than consecutively. So a broadside of haps each disappearing in roughly 3500 years readily racks up 20 levels in 4500 years.

No. And you have been told more than enough to understand.

You are simply lying to defend your massive ego from the truth.

An object that obese is hard to miss.

In turn your ego is a defense mechanism to cover your low self esteem.

I suspect you are lower middle class, live in an older house or apartment and have watched peers achieve more success than you. To hide your bitterness you have your dubs, who pretend to be your friend as long as you keep playing their game. If you see their error you have nothing.

As one JW said "It is better to be inside and be wrong than to be outside and right!"
KAB

Wilson, NC

#121509 Sep 15, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Lets consider this happening once. Now you have to consider it happening 19 times in a row. Not only that, but if it happened then it happened first time around to 3 populations assuming your flood girls each had different hap types. Next time it happened to every one of the branched next lot, 3 times who knows how many. Next time it had to happened to every daughter branch from that . What, 20 times or more. and that is just the third layer. By the 18th layer, you scenarion has to playbout separately, one by one, across the dozens and dozens of haps worldwide....
And we can rule all that out simply on the basis of history.
No KAB, rather than try to bend statistical likelihoods massively out of shape while completely contradicting the history of the last 4000 years, you have to accept that the hap tree proves n=3 4500 years ago is a failed hypothesis. The Bible is wrong about this, like it or not.
Having focused on the flood girls, you can now acknowledge that the 2 oldest hap tree levels could have already been gone prior to the flood. In fact, you virtually have been demanding it. You have also acknowledged that an unknown number of the most recent levels are still with us, so perhaps we're down to about 10 levels disappearing in the 4500 years since the flood. The further we go with the analysis, the more promising generating the hap tree in 4500 years looks. Please continue.

BTW, have I forgotten to tell you I'm good with math and comprehensive data analysis?!
KAB

Wilson, NC

#121510 Sep 15, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
No. And you have been told more than enough to understand.
You are simply lying to defend your massive ego from the truth.
An object that obese is hard to miss.
In turn your ego is a defense mechanism to cover your low self esteem.
I suspect you are lower middle class, live in an older house or apartment and have watched peers achieve more success than you. To hide your bitterness you have your dubs, who pretend to be your friend as long as you keep playing their game. If you see their error you have nothing.
As one JW said "It is better to be inside and be wrong than to be outside and right!"
You are every bit as correct this time as I have shown you to be numerous times before.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#121511 Sep 15, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Having focused on the flood girls, you can now acknowledge that the 2 oldest hap tree levels could have already been gone prior to the flood. In fact, you virtually have been demanding it. You have also acknowledged that an unknown number of the most recent levels are still with us, so perhaps we're down to about 10 levels disappearing in the 4500 years since the flood. The further we go with the analysis, the more promising generating the hap tree in 4500 years looks. Please continue.
BTW, have I forgotten to tell you I'm good with math and comprehensive data analysis?!
I would never have guessed that based on you psychotic rambling on this thread.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#121512 Sep 15, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
You are every bit as correct this time as I have shown you to be numerous times before.
You have been presented with a vast amount of evidence from multiple sources that refutes a global flood. Your persistence is based on lies, ignorance and delusion.

Your continued denial of this is just a symptom of whatever pathology is plaguing your beleaguered mind.

I am sure you are entitled to your opinion though.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#121513 Sep 16, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
You've already acknowledged (when you thought it to your advantage) that haps largely run roughly concurrently rather than consecutively. So a broadside of haps each disappearing in roughly 3500 years readily racks up 20 levels in 4500 years.
No KAB.

You run concurrently with your siblings and cousins but consecutively withyour parents, grandparents etc.

The sequence

XXXXXA

Could be a parent to

XXXXBA

OR

XXXXCA

they would be "sisters" and in the same layer 1-20 in the hap tree while

XXXXXA would be in the previous layer. Its not about what suits me. We look at the BA and CA siblings above and can see that one does not come from the other but they so share a common parent, XXXXXA. but we cannot find any XXXXXA in today's populations. Its a reconstruction based on the relationships in todays existing hap types.

There are two many consecutive changes layering one over the other with earlier ones disappearing to be accounted for in 4500 years.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#121514 Sep 16, 2013
"Too many" not "two many" of course

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#121515 Sep 16, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Having focused on the flood girls, you can now acknowledge that the 2 oldest hap tree levels could have already been gone prior to the flood. In fact, you virtually have been demanding it. You have also acknowledged that an unknown number of the most recent levels are still with us, so perhaps we're down to about 10 levels disappearing in the 4500 years since the flood. The further we go with the analysis, the more promising generating the hap tree in 4500 years looks. Please continue.
BTW, have I forgotten to tell you I'm good with math and comprehensive data analysis?!
No. For the first three, one type might go all the way back to the biblical Eve if as per your hypothesis, eve lived about 6000 years ago. But if there are 3 different haps in the flood girls - the max allowed for your sake - at least 2 would have to be mutant forms.

As for recent ones, its unknown to me how far back existing forms are but not to researchers.

You might be good at data analysis but that will only help you once you understand the nested heirarchy as a model. By your other comment about what seems to suit me, it looks like you do not. Why dont you look up nested hierarchy on google?,

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Evolution Debate Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News "Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really T... (Jan '12) 1 min Science 67,194
News Atheism, for Good Reason, Fears Questions (Jun '09) 20 min Science 28,657
Curious dilemma about DNA 34 min Confucius 368
What location did life started in? 1 hr Confucius 11
Are Asians/whites more evolved? (Sep '07) 1 hr Confucius 1,766
News Evolution vs. Creation (Jul '11) 2 hr Subduction Zone 221,262
News Nonsense of a high order: The confused world of... 2 hr Regolith Based Li... 3,531
News Defending the Faith: Intelligent design vs. 'Go... 11 hr replaytime 332
More from around the web