It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ... Full Story
KAB

United States

#116324 May 25, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
We, with great thanks to yourself, have now identified a litany of things the bible has gotten wrong. Or at least things you have not been able to successfully defend. Do you need a list starting with the flood that has been confirmed to have not happened up to the Tyre debacle?
Do we know these with the absolute certainty of the 2 thinks we know Absolute? No, but certainly just a level or so down from that.
Don't bother with the list. Just provide confirming data for anything on it. Please keep in mind that proposed confirming data first has to withstand scrutiny.
KAB

United States

#116325 May 25, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
No one know who wrote the Pentateuch or the book of Jonah. Being unidentified and by your standard they are dataless assertions.
Yes, the Jonah account contains dataless assertions not confirmed to be false and found in a demonstrated reliable document.
LowellGuy

United States

#116326 May 25, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, I've thought about it, and I did watch it.
Doubtful. Convince me.
LowellGuy

United States

#116327 May 25, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
I am allowing for the possibility of no Noachian flood. All I need is the confirmation. Are you allowing for the possibility of such a flood, as your side states you scientifically should?
We did, until it was disqualified by the evidence. If the empirical evidence disqualifies it, but an ancient legend says it happened, which should be given more weight? I'm going with demonstrable reality.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#116328 May 25, 2013
OOOOObama wrote:
<quoted text>
Chihuahuas are small, and Great Danes are HUGE. How can they breed? Yet, Labrador Retrievers and poodles can breed, and they breed Labradoodles. How is this explained?

All dogs are the same breed and can (pretty much) interbreed at will. Dogs are breeds of the same species. They differ not so much in genes as gene activation or expression.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#116329 May 25, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you mean Jesus is Almighty God (YHWH)?

Well, according to the bible (real translations)

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us.

John 5:16-18
Therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John 10:30-31
I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

John 10:38-39
The Father is in me, and I in him. Therefore they sought again to take him.

John 14:9
He that hath seen me hath seen the Father.

John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

Acts 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Colossians 1:16
For by him [Jesus] were all things created.

Colossians 2:9
For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

1 Timothy 3:16
God was made manifest in the flesh.

Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.

Philippians 2:6
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.

----------

And yes, I can give as many verses that say he was NOT God. I guess we have another confirmed inaccuracy.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#116330 May 25, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, I've thought about it, and I did watch it.

That was not so convincing as you might believe. You are not so technically savvy.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#116331 May 25, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
I am allowing for the possibility of no Noachian flood. All I need is the confirmation. Are you allowing for the possibility of such a flood, as your side states you scientifically should?

Unlike you we have confirmation.

Civilization in full and uninterrupted swing seems pretty strong evidence.

Lack of any evidence of a flood.

No genetic bottleneck at the same time period for all species.

So, what is that?... at minimum 99.9999999% certainty?

Do we have ANY science that has that sort of certainty?

So my friend, that is confirmation. It may not be such if there were any contrary data but, sadly for you, there is none.

As my faith is not predicated on the insanity of Biblical literalism this is not a problem for me.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#116332 May 25, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think I have stated that Jonah's 3-day adventure is fact. I have stated that data confirming that it could not have occurred has not been provided here. Only assertions such as yours have been provided.
You don't know what evidence is. You should actually study something sometime.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#116333 May 25, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't bother with the list. Just provide confirming data for anything on it. Please keep in mind that proposed confirming data first has to withstand scrutiny.

Your pretending it has not withstood scrutiny is ignoring the fact that it has passed any level of rational scrutiny.

You are welcome to believe the nonsense you have chosen to believe. Still doesn't make it true, but whatever.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#116334 May 25, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, the Jonah account contains dataless assertions not confirmed to be false and found in a demonstrated reliable document.

And who bears the burden of proof.......?

Just hate that, don't you?

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#116335 May 25, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
And who bears the burden of proof.......?
Just hate that, don't you?
Oh, they do.They do.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#116336 May 25, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, according to the bible (real translations)
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us.
John 5:16-18
Therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
John 10:30-31
I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
John 10:38-39
The Father is in me, and I in him. Therefore they sought again to take him.
John 14:9
He that hath seen me hath seen the Father.
John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.
Acts 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Colossians 1:16
For by him [Jesus] were all things created.
Colossians 2:9
For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
1 Timothy 3:16
God was made manifest in the flesh.
Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.
Philippians 2:6
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.
----------
And yes, I can give as many verses that say he was NOT God. I guess we have another confirmed inaccuracy.
?????
All of the verses you posted confirm Jesus is God in the flesh.
KAB

United States

#116337 May 25, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Doubtful. Convince me.
I know the maximum number of dice she ever had visible on screen at one time, and that's all you get until you explain how her presentation relates to the points under consideration.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#116338 May 25, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
I know the maximum number of dice she ever had visible on screen at one time, and that's all you get until you explain how her presentation relates to the points under consideration.
Is it possible that God did X?

You have to demonstrate that everything requisite to that possibility is true before the possibility emerges (first and foremost, that God exists at all). Until then, the claim that it IS possible that God did X must be rejected. It's not a claim that it's impossible.

Is it possible to roll an 18?

You have to demonstrate that everything requisite to that possibility is true before the possibility emerges. There must be adequate dice for an 18 to be rolled (between 3 and 18 dice). Until this has been demonstrated, the claim that it IS possible must be rejected. It's not a claim that it's impossible.

So, why should we have to DISPROVE your Bible stories for it to be logically invalid and irrational to accept the stories as true? We don't have to disprove the possibility of rolling an 18 to rightly reject claims about it being possible.

Your argument fails before it ever gets out of the blocks.
KAB

United States

#116339 May 25, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
We did, until it was disqualified by the evidence. If the empirical evidence disqualifies it, but an ancient legend says it happened, which should be given more weight? I'm going with demonstrable reality.
Me too, knowing that according to you empirical evidence is never certain, and knowing that the source of the legend has been demonstrated to be reliable.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#116340 May 25, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Me too, knowing that according to you empirical evidence is never certain, and knowing that the source of the legend has been demonstrated to be reliable.
Wait, the legend is impossible and you think that the source of the legend is thus reliable? That's insane. If the legends are not possible then the source of those legends is not demonstrably reliable in any way. You have to prove your legends happened in order to claim their source is reliable, since you cannot, your source can be dismissed as useless.
KAB

United States

#116341 May 25, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, according to the bible (real translations)
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us.
John 5:16-18
Therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
John 10:30-31
I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
John 10:38-39
The Father is in me, and I in him. Therefore they sought again to take him.
John 14:9
He that hath seen me hath seen the Father.
John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.
Acts 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Colossians 1:16
For by him [Jesus] were all things created.
Colossians 2:9
For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
1 Timothy 3:16
God was made manifest in the flesh.
Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.
Philippians 2:6
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.
----------
And yes, I can give as many verses that say he was NOT God. I guess we have another confirmed inaccuracy.
Thanks for the verses (that would be data). Let the scrutiny begin.

John 1:1 -- Who was the Word with?
KAB

United States

#116342 May 25, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
That was not so convincing as you might believe. You are not so technically savvy.
I didn't expect anything I offered to be convincing, but you might consider what the chances are I could get what I did provide right without having seen it or at least having been told about it.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#116343 May 25, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for the verses (that would be data). Let the scrutiny begin.
John 1:1 -- Who was the Word with?
The Word (Holy Scripture) was with God and the Word was God and the Word became flesh (Jesus)

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