It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ... Full Story
KAB

Oxford, NC

#116121 May 21, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Sooooo....
A mammalian lung is a big, hollow bag full of fresh spring air, eh?
I doubt it's that simple. Perhaps the best one could manage is an air supply tube.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#116122 May 21, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Back to your admittedly subjective standard of reliability, and the fact that science recognizez no such thing as a reliable source. Evidence is objective. Your standard and the consequent reliability are subjective, which means they are not evidence for the phenomena described in the Bible, much less the fantastic ones.
You keep using that response. I do not think what you're responding to means what you think it means.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#116123 May 21, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
With bare hands? Doubtful. Squids don't do it as far as we know, and they're armed with razor-sharp beaks.
What happens when you get a fly in your lung?
Do you even know how lungs work? Do you realize that Jonah would suffocate in a whale's lung?
Did Jonah have to be bare-handed? Also, I know there's a regular supply of breathable air in a whale's lung.
BTW, I know that when I get a fly in my lung it doesn't bother any whales.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#116124 May 21, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>If he "cut his way" into the creatures lung, the creature would bleed to death quite rapidly.
Even if the cut was rather small by whale scale standards?

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#116125 May 21, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Did I state that you proclaim I NEVER provide data, or did you state that I state that, even tho I didn't state that? My assertion is that you incorrectly state that I don't provide data. The next time it occurs, I will prove it with ... are you ready for this?... data!
But, never evidence, because evidence is HARD, and data is EASY.

When you have evidence, you will be a far more interesting person. You also will no longer be a Jehoveh's Witness, which absolutely scares you shitless.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#116126 May 21, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Did Jonah have to be bare-handed? Also, I know there's a regular supply of breathable air in a whale's lung.
BTW, I know that when I get a fly in my lung it doesn't bother any whales.
You are careful not to state that Jonah was literally swallowed by a fish. All you do is repeat "what ifs" and "why nots."
It is not heresy to just come right out and say that the fish part of the story is an allegory for surviving the sea and being delivered to the land he was supposed to have gone to in the first place. Do you have such a paralytic fear of your loving God that you can't even do THAT?

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#116127 May 21, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Did Jonah have to be bare-handed? Also, I know there's a regular supply of breathable air in a whale's lung.
BTW, I know that when I get a fly in my lung it doesn't bother any whales.
Jonah was bare-handed because he didn't have any tools. Maybe you think he was a T-1000 and was made of liquid metal?

A whale's lung does NOT always have a regular supply of breathable air...at least, not enough for a human being to breathe. Remember that the lung is filling with carbon dioxide at all times, and the sperm whale's respiratory system is designed to extract maximum oxygen from the air it breathes in (around 90%, compared with our 15%). Combine the CO2 and the relatively low oxygen content of the air left in the lungs, and when the whale is underwater for an hour or two, there would be nothing useful for a human being in those lungs. It would be little better than putting a plastic bag over your head, except you could take the bag off, whereas if you were in a whale's lung, you couldn't do shit to save yourself.

What happens when a fly ends up in your lung? Answer the question. Better yet, what happens when a gerbil ends up in your lung? That's a bit closer to correct, proportionally.

Also, Jonah had no tools. Read your Bible. And, he'd have to cut a hole in the stomach large enough to wriggle through, which would bleed pretty damn bad, THEN he'd have to navigate the whale's abdomen and reach the lungs and tear another hole big enough to wriggle through. If I make a 1" incision in your stomach and another in your lung, do you die? Why do you think an incision of at least 12" (assuming a very slender adult male) made in the stomach AND lung of a whale wouldn't result in death by internal bleeding?

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#116128 May 21, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>*blink*
Okay, I'm calling Poe on this one.
Nobody's that stupid.
What? Whales bleed when their stomach and lung get foot-long slices in them? And, probably not nice clean incisions, but sloppy tearing gashes? Why would a whale bleed to death and die at sea, ensuring the death of Jonah, if KAB's what-if scenario were true? Have you been inside a whale to perform this experiment to verify that it would occur? If not, how do you know it's not possible?

This is exactly how stupid KAB is, because he needs to be to maintain his "faith." What a stupid faith that must be.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#116129 May 21, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Why yes, yes there is.
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TFA...
How did Jonah stay alive in a fish for 3 days. How did the fish stay alive with a Jonah lodged in it for 3 days? Who recorded Jonah's speech?
KAB got yer tongue?
Though they're not related to the subject assertion, the answer to your first two questions is I don't know, and the answer to the third is likely Jonah since it was his experience and he was YHWH's prophet.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#116130 May 21, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not asking him, weasel. I'm asking you for your data.
My data is his data. As I've stated before, that's one thing we all have in common. The data is the same for everyone.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Park City, Utah

#116131 May 21, 2013
“A God intelligent enough to design even a molecule, let alone a whole universe, would, if he-she-or-it went loony and decided to take up murder, still be intelligent enough to murder only the people he-she-or-it disliked. Accepting the dubious Warren Commission Report, even Lee Harvey Oswald only hit one innocent bystander (the governor). The early Old Testament God appears not only as crazy as Oswald but clumsier, stupider and generally less civilized. King Kong is as convincing a portrait of God as that given in the Old Testament. Trying to imagine Old Man JHVH (Yahweh/Jehovah) designing even a quark, let alone a molecule, is absurd; He would mess it up, go into a temper, and destroy five nearby cities to express his childish rage.”[Robert Anton Wilson]

I propose to you that the whole thing was made up by those Hebrew goat-herders because YES they would think like that. No God, who you would expect to be rational, would act anything like what was written in the Bible….it’s a Jewish scam guys and gals.

*****
"It is precisely because Biblical revelation is absolutely authoritative and perspicuous that the scientific facts, rightly interpreted, will give the same testimony as that of Scripture. There is not the slightest possibility that the "facts" of science can contradict the Bible."--Henry Morris

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Park City, Utah

#116132 May 21, 2013
"There would be no segregation of fossils. If all organisms lived at the same time, we would expect to see trilobites, brachiopods, ammonites, dinosaurs, and mammals (including humans) all randomly mixed together in the worldwide blanket described in point #1.

This is not what is observed. The fossil record exhibits an order consistent with the theory of evolution (but inconsistent with creationism), from simple forms to more complex forms, and from creatures very unlike modern species to those more closely resembling modern species. There is not one instance of any fossils that have been deposited "out of order".

In addition, there would be no extinction events found in the fossil record. There are at least five major extinction events, a situation where fossils are abundant below a certain line within the geological layers, but totally absent above that line.

The most notable extinction event is the one that killed off the dinosaurs (and 90% of all other life) 65 million years ago. There is no way to explain these geological features with a global flood."
http://www.evolution.mbdojo.com/flood.html

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#116133 May 22, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
... And, he'd have to cut a hole in the stomach large enough to wriggle through, which would bleed pretty damn bad, THEN he'd have to navigate the whale's abdomen and reach the lungs and tear another hole big enough to wriggle through. If I make a 1" incision in your stomach and another in your lung, do you die? Why do you think an incision of at least 12" (assuming a very slender adult male) made in the stomach AND lung of a whale wouldn't result in death by internal bleeding?
Not only that, but once 'swallowed', Jonah would be required to:
(1) Have knowledge of a whales anatomy to make this navigation (stomach to lung),

(2) make this trip in the dark
(3) while holding his breath

Presumably, once there in the lung of the whale, Jonah would have to wait the required 3 days, hold his breath and reverse his way back (in the dark) to the whale's digestive tract in time to be expelled (the blow hole of a whale is much too small to pass a human).

...and, as you have pointed out, LG, a mammalian lung has no 'air supply tube'. It is more like a sponge, honeycombed with air sacs and blood vessels.

The Jonah story is a fantasy worthy of a LSD/Mushroom/Mescaline trip times a thousand.

It never happened.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#116134 May 22, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Did Jonah have to be bare-handed? Also, I know there's a regular supply of breathable air in a whale's lung.
BTW, I know that when I get a fly in my lung it doesn't bother any whales.
WTF? You get flies in your lungs???

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#116135 May 22, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
My data is his data. As I've stated before, that's one thing we all have in common. The data is the same for everyone.
You evasive little shit. You've got nothing.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#116136 May 22, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
What? Whales bleed when their stomach and lung get foot-long slices in them? And, probably not nice clean incisions, but sloppy tearing gashes? Why would a whale bleed to death and die at sea, ensuring the death of Jonah, if KAB's what-if scenario were true? Have you been inside a whale to perform this experiment to verify that it would occur? If not, how do you know it's not possible?
This is exactly how stupid KAB is, because he needs to be to maintain his "faith." What a stupid faith that must be.
Wait for it.

"Magic."
KAB

United States

#116137 May 22, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
So you admit that fish could mean whale in the verified inaccurate bible.
I'm allowing for the reality that anything which has what is considered to be a fish-like form often gets referred to as a fish.
KAB

United States

#116138 May 22, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>If it has lungs, then it wasn't a fish.
Was that distinction scientifically identified/recognized at the time?

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#116139 May 22, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Though they're not related to the subject assertion, the answer to your first two questions is I don't know, and the answer to the third is likely Jonah since it was his experience and he was YHWH's prophet.
The questions are directly related to the subject assertion. For questions one and two, I have to agree. I don't know how either of them could be possible, unless the "fish" was engineered and purpose built to carry a human. I don't think so.
The answer to the third question is unlikely Jonah, since the author of Jonah is anonymous. In fact, with the exception of Revelation (which I reject as belonging in the Bible) did ANY of the prophets write their own books in their own time frame?

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#116140 May 22, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm allowing for the reality that anything which has what is considered to be a fish-like form often gets referred to as a fish.
Which is why we call you a liar. Anybody that has what is considered to be a liar-like behavior often gets referred to as a liar.

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