It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the ...

It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

There are 151411 comments on the Asheville Citizen-Times story from Mar 15, 2009, titled It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate. In it, Asheville Citizen-Times reports that:

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Asheville Citizen-Times.

KAB

Wilson, NC

#115266 May 12, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course I'm not seriously trying to ascertain how it could be done. How friggin astute of you.
It's a story, doofus. It never happened. It can't happen. Only morons and little children would buy into this being factual.
So why can't you provide data confirming that?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Indianapolis, IN

#115267 May 12, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you accept that British seaman James Bartley survived 15 hrs in the stomach of a sperm whale?
Oh, come on! You not seriously proposing this is fact, are you? You're even nuttier than I thought.
LowellGuy

United States

#115268 May 12, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Science is not tentative about what Earth's shape is not. It is not cubic. So far, only you are tentative about this, but you are also clearly not a scientist.
Sure it is. If evidence were presented that explained all the facts better than oblate spheroid Earth, was demonstrable, and was not contradicted by any of the facts, science would accept the new understanding. You wouldn't. That's because you don't understand how science works. Not my fault.
KAB

Wilson, NC

#115269 May 12, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
That was an urban legend, idiot.
Don't you mean it has not been substantiated by recent investigators? That's fine. So we're back to seeking data to determine if it is possible.
KAB

Wilson, NC

#115270 May 12, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
I never heard of James Bartley prior to your post. So I looked it up.
This is what was among the findings:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2294...
Two scholarly papers have attacked the question, Edward B. Davis's "A Whale of a Tale: Fundamentalist Fish Stories" (Perspectives on Science and Christian Faith, 1991) and R. Gambell and S.G. Brown's "James Bartley — A Modern Jonah or Joke?" (Investigations on Cetacea, 1993). Here's what they say:
(1) The story has appeared over the years in numerous publications, both secular and religious. An 1896 story in the New York Times gives essentially the account above and says it came from "The Mercury of South Yarmouth, England, in October 1891," but it sounds a little skeptical.
(2) The Yarmouth Mercury of August 22, 1891, carried a story entitled "Man in a Whale's Stomach / Rescue of a Modern Jonah," which gives the account above. There's no byline nor any indication that the writer spoke with Bartley, the ship's captain, or any of the sailors.
(3) In June 1891 a rorqual whale was beached near the town of Gorleston, just south of Great Yarmouth, and was killed, stuffed, and exhibited around England.
(4) Sperm whales are capable of swallowing humans. They live on squid, which they swallow whole. In 1955 a 405-pound squid was removed intact from the belly of a sperm whale.
(5) In 1906, Lloyd's of London reported that Star of the East, a British ship, had set sail from Auckland, New Zealand, in December 1890 and arrived in New York in April 1891, so it might have been near the Falkland Islands in February. However, it was not a whaling ship, and there was no James Bartley on the crew list.
(6) Also in 1906, the wife of J.B. Killam, captain of the Star of the East, wrote that she'd been with her husband all the years he commanded the ship and that no one had been lost overboard during that time. "The sailor has told a great sea yarn," she said.
What do we make of all this? Davis speculates that the story was cooked up by some pale fellow to take advantage of publicity surrounding the Gorleston whale exhibition and that it's been passed along by the gullible ever since. He's probably right — how could anyone survive overnight in a whale's stomach without suffocating? But in the absence of a smoking gun, or a quotation from Bartley, I guess we'll never know for sure.
Thanks for providing the additional research/data.
KAB

Wilson, NC

#115271 May 12, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
No.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Bartley
Not until empirical evidence (stories are NOT empirical evidence...EVER) emerges.
How many people need to tell a story for it to be true? 10? 100? 1000? Just tell us the threshold.
The time to accept a claim as true is when the evidence supports it and not a moment before.
When's the last time you took psychotropic drugs?
I'm well aware of your decision not to EVER accept documentary evidence. I'll also remember it if you tell me about uninterrupted civilizations thru the time of the global flood.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Indianapolis, IN

#115272 May 12, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Try this. Jonah swallowed by the creature into a place with a pocket of air. Jonah becomes "comatose" while the creatures digestion, if actually involved, ceases due to the stomach upset of Jonah not being on the normal menu. After 3 days of indigestion, the creature beaches and vomits out Jonah. No magic.
Assertions, assertions, assertions. Where's your data, jackass?

Oh, that's right! Everyone else is required to submit data for your absurd 'scrutiny' but you're free to pull goofy shit out of your ass anytime you like.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Indianapolis, IN

#115273 May 12, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
So why can't you provide data confirming that?
Right there is exactly why you're a loony.
LowellGuy

United States

#115274 May 12, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't you mean it has not been substantiated by recent investigators? That's fine. So we're back to seeking data to determine if it is possible.
It's not spelled "recent." It's spelled "any."
LowellGuy

United States

#115275 May 12, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm well aware of your decision not to EVER accept documentary evidence. I'll also remember it if you tell me about uninterrupted civilizations thru the time of the global flood.
The mere fact that someone wrote something at some time in no way serves as evidence of the phenomenon. How many people have to tell a story, written or otherwise, for it to be accepted as true? 1? 10? 1000? What is the threshold where it goes from a story to reality?

By your logic, spacemen DO abduct people because some people have written that it occurs.
HTS

Mandan, ND

#115276 May 12, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
The mere fact that someone wrote something at some time in no way serves as evidence of the phenomenon. How many people have to tell a story, written or otherwise, for it to be accepted as true? 1? 10? 1000? What is the threshold where it goes from a story to reality?
By your logic, spacemen DO abduct people because some people have written that it occurs.
The entire foundation of evolution is nothing more than stories repeated and hashed over and over again. You are constantly stating that you believe in impossibilities because thousands of self-professed "scientists" can't be wrong.
KAB

Wilson, NC

#115277 May 12, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh? You can observe an atom of oxygen and two atoms of hydrogen combining to form water and energy?
Quantities of hydrogen and oxygen can be combined and the resulting H20 observed. The Hindenburg was related to such experiments.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#115278 May 12, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Quantities of hydrogen and oxygen can be combined and the resulting H20 observed. The Hindenburg was related to such experiments.
And, all you need to do is demonstrate the number of atoms. When you can show me 2 hydrogen atoms and 1 oxygen atom, then we'll talk.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#115279 May 12, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
The entire foundation of evolution is nothing more than stories repeated and hashed over and over again. You are constantly stating that you believe in impossibilities because thousands of self-professed "scientists" can't be wrong.
Dataless assertion. No comment.
KAB

Wilson, NC

#115280 May 12, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
That assumes that human flesh would cause a whale's digestive processes to stop. I'm sure you have evidence to back that supposition and aren't merely making shit up.
That also assumes a pocket of breathable air (at least, not anoxic) that could last a comatose adult male for three days. And, assuming that in his comatose state he'd somehow manage to keep from drowning. Ever seen a whale's stomach?
By the way, remind us why the acidity of a whale's stomach wouldn't have killed him, either. Does indigestion alter the pH of stomach acid? Assuming that humans are a source of whale indigestion, which has not been demonstrated.
Any evidence for any of your hypothetical explanation, so it's not just fanciful fantasy?
It appears we're at an evidence stalemate, none provided by either side.
KAB

Wilson, NC

#115281 May 12, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Um ... only in the land of fantasy. Seriously, none of that supposition matters, until you show the mechanisms in which anything can survive the digestive tract of any species that is not specifically tailored to that hostile environment, all you have is made up fantasies.
Likewise, you have nothing but supposition until you provide data confirmimg survivial is not possible.
KAB

Wilson, NC

#115282 May 12, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, there is a lot of data there.
If that is so, you will prove it by referencing a sample of it. Failure to do so will be accepted as admission of error.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#115283 May 12, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
It appears we're at an evidence stalemate, none provided by either side.
No. There is NO evidence that supports the claim that a man could live three days inside a whale's stomach. There IS evidence that contradicts the claim that a man could live three days inside a whale's stomach. Your list of "what ifs" are nothing more than desperate flailing. As soon as you have datum one that supports human survival inside the digestive system of a cetacean, you'll start having a point. Until then, it's just you denying reality.

Is it possible for a naked man to survive on the surface of Pluto?
KAB

Wilson, NC

#115284 May 12, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
No. There is NO evidence that supports the claim that a man could live three days inside a whale's stomach. There IS evidence that contradicts the claim that a man could live three days inside a whale's stomach. Your list of "what ifs" are nothing more than desperate flailing. As soon as you have datum one that supports human survival inside the digestive system of a cetacean, you'll start having a point. Until then, it's just you denying reality.
Is it possible for a naked man to survive on the surface of Pluto?
What is the data which confirms a man could not survive 3 days inside a sea creature? Conjecture is all that has been provided so far.

Regarding the Pluto challenge, how cold is it, and survive for how long?

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#115285 May 12, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
What is the data which confirms a man could not survive 3 days inside a sea creature? Conjecture is all that has been provided so far.
Regarding the Pluto challenge, how cold is it, and survive for how long?
Hmm.
Three days without air, submerged in powerful acid.
What sort of data would satisfy you that that's not survivable?

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