It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

Full story: Asheville Citizen-Times

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...

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“I am Sisyphus”

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#115162
May 10, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
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There is global 4500 year old flood evidence.

False, as we have seen.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

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Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

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#115163
May 10, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
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To bring this to conclusion, all you have to do to win me over is provide confirming data which withstands scrutiny. Otherwise, your assertions are worthless.
You've never heard of the Hindu Kush before, have you?

Never mind. Here's your data.

http://www.assess-hkh.at/mains/geology.php

“I am Sisyphus”

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#115164
May 10, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
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You apparently think that if some flood data remains for tens of thousands of years, it all does.

You apparently think (?) that the 2nd most cataclysmic event in earths 4.5 billion year history would have left no evidence at all, but it would.

“I am Sisyphus”

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#115165
May 10, 2013
 
LowellGuy wrote:
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You should stop lying, liar.

I tell you he can't. He lies compulsively. It is beyond his voluntary control

“I am Sisyphus”

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#115166
May 10, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
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What if you have a 1.4 million year old crater whose sidewall loose material only made its way from the sidewalls into the crater lake once, and that was about 4500 years ago.

I, and several others, went into some detail exposing this lie.

Don't you remember what the data suggested?

It was also demonstrated, about the same time, that the side was was not damaged by a flood, but rather likely by an earth quake.

Followers of the Father of Lies apparently have short memories.

“I am Sisyphus”

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#115167
May 10, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
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Do you think the animal's belly would be too small?

No.

I do think that your brain is far too small for your skull, however.

“I am Sisyphus”

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#115168
May 10, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
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Given the amount of flooding reported all over the earth today over the course of say 100 years, do you really think there is not evidence of flooding all over the earth from 4500 years ago?

Still we only get the assertions?
Elohim

Branford, CT

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#115169
May 10, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
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Thanks for the compelling proof confirming the crater sediment is not from the flood of Noah. Oh, you didn't provide any? Sorry, my bad.
No need to. There was no flood of noah.

“I am Sisyphus”

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#115170
May 10, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
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Given the amount of flooding reported all over the earth today over the course of say 100 years, do you really think there is not evidence of flooding all over the earth from 4500 years ago?

Exactly!

See, you CAN find the flaws in your own arguments.

“I am Sisyphus”

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#115171
May 10, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
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Of course they all left evidence. Do you think none of that evidence has been obliterated or is unrecognizable today?

How big of a flood?

We have evidence of large regional floods from millions of years ago.

The fact is that thousands of scientists looked all over the world for evidence of a global flood and ended up throwing in the towel.

There are places where there would HAVE to be flood evidence (off shore sediment layers) and no evidence has ever been found.

This is dead.

No global flood evidence ANYWHERE.
No global flood.

It ain't rocket science.
LowellGuy

United States

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#115172
May 10, 2013
 
Dogen wrote:
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I tell you he can't. He lies compulsively. It is beyond his voluntary control
I know. He can't, but he should. He's tied up his sense of self into his lies. Now, his lies are part of his identity. It will take far more than we can do here to turn his lying ass around.
LowellGuy

United States

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#115173
May 10, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
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Shortcomings have been identified in all the data provided.
According to your "standard," there are shortcomings in the evidence for H2 + O = 1 molecule of water + energy.
LowellGuy

United States

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#115174
May 10, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
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I haven't yet seen data regarding the stomachs of all sufficiently large sea creatures. Hey, how about that woman still alive after 17 days in the belly of the collapsed factory!
Between stomach acid, the need for breathable air, and the need for potable water, name a single oceanic organism...ANY oceanic organism...heck, ANY EUKARYOTE...inside whose stomach a grown man could survive for three days. Has that net been cast wide enough for you?
LowellGuy

United States

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#115175
May 10, 2013
 
HTS wrote:
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Radiometric dating is worthless, and that fact is established by blind studies... something that is foreign to those who swallow evo-koolaid.
Example: 10 year old samples from Mt. St. Helens were radiometrically dated to over 300,000 years old.
I would say that a 30,000 fold margin of error = worthless.
If the shroud of Turin were dated to the time of Jesus' death, would you accept those findings?

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

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#115176
May 10, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
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Do you consider the record of Sargon and similar material to be in the "later parts" of the Bible? It seems you agree that the reliability of the source makes a difference. Do you?
Yes, relatively speaking. You are talking about a Semitic Assyrian King, which means Sargon lies millennia after the purported events of Adam, the Flood, Babel, and other obvious myths in Genesis. Genesis is the main point of contention between fundamentalist nutcases and scientific evidence, after all. I am not surprised if the Chronicles of the Jewish people contain references to Assyrian Kings who existed.

Just as I am not surprised that Schliemann found Troy, generally supposed before that to be a mythical city from Homer's Iliad. Yet the discovery of Troy does not prove that Achilles mother was really the river goddess Thetis, which is also in the Iliad.

Are you starting to grasp the concept of a mythical/historical narrative? And perhaps, are you starting to see how easily one could grow with a people before they developed rational and analytical methods to sort the wheat from the chaff? The Japanese had a similar tradition with history merging into myth at the earliest points (the Sun God being the ultimate ancestor of the Emperor's line etc).

Its not even rare. The oral tradition of the NZ Maori had careful recall of ancestral lines since landing in NZ, but...merging back to the myths of Maui fishing the islands out of the Ocean.

Its the same narrative structure the world over. Myth -> history and a fuzzy line between them.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

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#115177
May 10, 2013
 
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
Radiometric dating is worthless, and that fact is established by blind studies... something that is foreign to those who swallow evo-koolaid.
Example: 10 year old samples from Mt. St. Helens were radiometrically dated to over 300,000 years old.
I would say that a 30,000 fold margin of error = worthless.
Yes, the studies certainly are blind. Worse, they are ingenuous and fraudulent. The sort of thing we come to expect from the YEC desperadoes.
HTS

Williston, ND

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#115178
May 10, 2013
 

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Kong_ wrote:
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'
AUSTIN FAILED TO PROPERLY USE THE K-Ar METHOD
Considering that the half-life of potassium-40 (40K) is fairly long (1,250 million years, McDougall and Harrison, 1999, p. 9), the K-Ar method cannot be used to date samples that are much younger than 6,000 years old (Dalrymple, 1991, p. 93). Considering the statements at the Geochron website and the lowest age limitations of the K-Ar method, why did Austin submit a recently erupted dacite to this laboratory and expect a reliable answer??? Contrary to Swenson's uninformed claim that ' Dr Austin carefully designed the research to counter all possible objections', Austin clearly demonstrated his inexperience in geochronology when he wasted a lot of money using the K-Ar method on the wrong type of samples.
Austin didn't "use" the K-Ar method. He submitted a sample to a reputable lab. If evolutionists claim that Austin incorrectly collected a the year old sample, what reassurance is there that a 50 million year old sample is "correctly" collected?

What about the numerous other samples that have been collected from volcanic lava flows of known dates that have yielded equally worthless results? The Hualalai basalt lava flow in Hawaii, which erupted between 1800 and 1801, was determined to be 22 million years old by the Potassium-Argon Method.* Sunset Crater in Arizona, which erupted around AD 1064, was dated at 250,000 to 270,000 years. Mt. Etna basalt, which erupted in Sicily in 1792, was dated at 1.41 million years.*. Many other examples of volcanic lava flows of known dates have been blindly subjected to radiometric dating and have yielded similarly worthless results.

Austin, S.A., 1996. Excess Argon Within Mineral Concentrates from the New Dacite Lava Dome at Mount St. Helens Volcano. CEN Tech.J., 10(3):335-343

Funkhouser, John G., and Naughton, John J., Journal of Geophysical Research, vol. 73, No. 14, July
1968, pp.4601-4607.

Austin, S.A.,(edit),1994. Grand Canyon: Monument to Catastrophe, Institute for Creation Research, Santee, CA, pp

Do you know of any study that documents that radiometric dating of lava flows of historically known dates is accurate and reproducible? Why do no such studies exist?

You said, "K-Ar method cannot be used to date samples that are much younger than 6,000 years old".
You are therefore assuming that all fossils are older than 6,000 years old. Therefore, none of the dates assigned to australopicithine fossils are valid. If a fossil is 4,000 years old, it will date much older.

“I am Sisyphus”

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#115179
May 10, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
The global flood was about 4500 years ago, and yes, everything you named would have been underwater.

Except that it wasn't.

Egyptians were in the MIDDLE of building a pyramid 4,500 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Dynasty_o...

Shepseskaf was Pharaoh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepseskaf

He was building this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastabet_el-Fara...

Tell me when you see a problem....

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

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#115180
May 10, 2013
 
Yes, there can be some dates using K/Ar if the method is used incorrectly. And there are explanations of why those wrong dates appear.

With radiometric dating when a sample is at the edge of being too young to date or too old to date incorrectly taken samples can give very wrong dates.

A common problem with volcanic rocks are phenocrysts. Those are older, coarser crystals that are incorporated into the matrix. If you date the whole rock a little bit of old rock will make the sample seem much older than it actually is. Remember we are working with an exponential process here not a linear one. So a small amount of contamination can skew the result terribly.

In Austins case, since he is a dishonest incompetent, there was a high chance of contamination by atmospheric argon. If he did not take any steps to avoid that he could easily have given contaminated materials to test.

Your problem is that you only focus on the fact that wrong results were obtained. Not the more important fact that those problems have been identified and we know how to avoid those problems in the future.

Radiometric dating is extremely healthy as a scientific concept. Yes, it is possible to get wrong answers. Any COMPETENT scientist will take steps to avoid those. He knows that his results are worthless if they are not repeatable.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

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#115181
May 10, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
Yes, there can be some dates using K/Ar if the method is used incorrectly. And there are explanations of why those wrong dates appear.
With radiometric dating when a sample is at the edge of being too young to date or too old to date incorrectly taken samples can give very wrong dates.
A common problem with volcanic rocks are phenocrysts. Those are older, coarser crystals that are incorporated into the matrix. If you date the whole rock a little bit of old rock will make the sample seem much older than it actually is. Remember we are working with an exponential process here not a linear one. So a small amount of contamination can skew the result terribly.
In Austins case, since he is a dishonest incompetent, there was a high chance of contamination by atmospheric argon. If he did not take any steps to avoid that he could easily have given contaminated materials to test.
Your problem is that you only focus on the fact that wrong results were obtained. Not the more important fact that those problems have been identified and we know how to avoid those problems in the future.
Radiometric dating is extremely healthy as a scientific concept. Yes, it is possible to get wrong answers. Any COMPETENT scientist will take steps to avoid those. He knows that his results are worthless if they are not repeatable.
The results were corrected!!

Dammit, I am fed up with with these blistering idiots who don't know how this sh!t works.

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