It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ... Full Story

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#114876 May 6, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
Didn't Neeeby miss out on the Egyptian prophecy also??
Of course.

I will let KAB explain how he might not have on his own.

I wouldn't want to put words into his mouth and I would probably break down laughing if I tried.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#114877 May 6, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
You apparently FAIL to recognize the prophecy can't mean ANYTHING someone wants. It contains some very specific requirements which not everything which occurs include. At the same time, as written, it does allow for multiple possibilities. That's a harsh reality of language. Get use to disappointment as you are shown legitimate ways prophecies are fulfilled.
Funny how not a single verified prophecy that is too specific to weasel your way through has ever been proven.

In the case of Tyre, the only way to falsify it according to your criteria would be if Tyre had NEVER been invaded or overrun by anyone ever. Name a single city in the civilised world that has not been overrun in some war at least once - you know damned well that 99% of them have been. Even then, you could claim it just has not happened YET.

See? Its smoke and mirrors, no better than a Sunday paper astrology page. Some people swear by them, too.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#114878 May 6, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
And as we have pointed out many times, Nebby was the head of many nations.
Since Tyre was attacked on a regular basis to claim that the prophecy extends for over 1,000 years it would fail on the basis that it is no longer a "prophesy" but a certainty. The only "many nations" that makes any logical sense is that of Nebby being the head of many nations.
You could claim "many nations" over a long period of time if Tyre had never been attacked before. That is definitely not the case.
Is "You will see a red car" a valid Biblical prophesy? Why am I not a prophet of Biblical magnitude?
Hey that was MY prophecy SZ. I should be the Prophet of Biblical Magnitude!

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#114879 May 7, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey that was MY prophecy SZ. I should be the Prophet of Biblical Magnitude!
You are right. So sorry.

Why is not Chimney1 a prophet of Biblical proportions?

He seems to be at least, if not more correct, than Zeke.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#114880 May 7, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
You are right. So sorry.
Why is not Chimney1 a prophet of Biblical proportions?
He seems to be at least, if not more correct, than Zeke.
Though it might be more accurate to say that the actual Zeke of Biblical Proportions would be nothing more than a writer of the Sunday paper Astrology page, if he lived today...

Hey another thought just occurred to me. Wonder if anyone has followed this line of reasoning up...since ancient Israel was such a prophecy driven society and presumably becoming a prophet would be the height of ambition for the typical Israelite, perhaps there were many, many prophet try-hards in the day. The ones that got something right were preserved and remembered, while the mass of failures would be forgotten. This selection bias would give a strong impression, in hindsight, of good biblical prophecy by those who happened to get something right! Not only that, but even those who got something right...would their mistakes also be preserved with such care?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#114881 May 7, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
If your assertion was true, all you had to do was quote me, but since it's not, you can't.

Don't you know what an analogy is?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy&#8206 ;

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#114882 May 7, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for the quote stating "they" would spoil the riches. Don't forget the "many nations" factor. It was a group effort. As the Bible also states, Nebuchadnezzar didn't get the spoil.

We have already refuted this.

You have a short memory.

"So if Ezekiel was declaring that Nebuchadnezzar would be the instrument that Yahweh would use to destroy Tyre, why did he say that "many nations" would be sent against it? A reasonable explanation of the prophet's reference to "many-nations" can be found in the ethnic compositions of early empires. Empires like Babylonia formed from the conquest and annexation of surrounding tribes and nations, so when an area was assimilated into an adjoining kingdom, the soldiers of the conquered nations served the greater empire. The Assyrian empire, for example, crumbled when the combined forces of the Medes, Babylonians, and Scythians plundered Assur in 614 B. C. and Nineveh in 612. When Haran fell to these allied forces in 610 and then Carchemish in 605, most of the Assyrian territory was annexed by Babylon. In such cases, defeated armies swore allegiance to their conquerers, so the armies of a king like Nebuchadnezzar were actually armies of "many nations."

http://www.theskepticalreview.com/tsrmag/992t...

Trying to ride on the corpse of a dead horse will not get you anywhere.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#114883 May 7, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Though it might be more accurate to say that the actual Zeke of Biblical Proportions would be nothing more than a writer of the Sunday paper Astrology page, if he lived today...
Hey another thought just occurred to me. Wonder if anyone has followed this line of reasoning up...since ancient Israel was such a prophecy driven society and presumably becoming a prophet would be the height of ambition for the typical Israelite, perhaps there were many, many prophet try-hards in the day. The ones that got something right were preserved and remembered, while the mass of failures would be forgotten. This selection bias would give a strong impression, in hindsight, of good biblical prophecy by those who happened to get something right! Not only that, but even those who got something right...would their mistakes also be preserved with such care?

You mean like the guys who make sports predictions?
KAB

Des Moines, IA

#114884 May 7, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
And as we have pointed out many times, Nebby was the head of many nations.
Since Tyre was attacked on a regular basis to claim that the prophecy extends for over 1,000 years it would fail on the basis that it is no longer a "prophesy" but a certainty. The only "many nations" that makes any logical sense is that of Nebby being the head of many nations.
You could claim "many nations" over a long period of time if Tyre had never been attacked before. That is definitely not the case.
Is "You will see a red car" a valid Biblical prophesy? Why am I not a prophet of Biblical magnitude?
You make an excellent point. If the prophecy was only that Tyre would be attacked, that would not be a prophecy of any value. Of course, that's far from all the prophecy states. There are a number of details that make the defeating of Tyre unique. Why do you not enumerate them? Would that weaken your red car assertion?
KAB

Des Moines, IA

#114885 May 7, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
Didn't Neeeby miss out on the Egyptian prophecy also??
What data makes you think Nebby didn't fulfill the Egyptian prophecy?
KAB

Des Moines, IA

#114886 May 7, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Funny how not a single verified prophecy that is too specific to weasel your way through has ever been proven.
In the case of Tyre, the only way to falsify it according to your criteria would be if Tyre had NEVER been invaded or overrun by anyone ever. Name a single city in the civilised world that has not been overrun in some war at least once - you know damned well that 99% of them have been. Even then, you could claim it just has not happened YET.
See? Its smoke and mirrors, no better than a Sunday paper astrology page. Some people swear by them, too.
Would you settle for naming a city which was not overrun by Nebuchadnezzar?
KAB

Des Moines, IA

#114887 May 7, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
We have already refuted this.
You have a short memory.
"So if Ezekiel was declaring that Nebuchadnezzar would be the instrument that Yahweh would use to destroy Tyre, why did he say that "many nations" would be sent against it? A reasonable explanation of the prophet's reference to "many-nations" can be found in the ethnic compositions of early empires. Empires like Babylonia formed from the conquest and annexation of surrounding tribes and nations, so when an area was assimilated into an adjoining kingdom, the soldiers of the conquered nations served the greater empire. The Assyrian empire, for example, crumbled when the combined forces of the Medes, Babylonians, and Scythians plundered Assur in 614 B. C. and Nineveh in 612. When Haran fell to these allied forces in 610 and then Carchemish in 605, most of the Assyrian territory was annexed by Babylon. In such cases, defeated armies swore allegiance to their conquerers, so the armies of a king like Nebuchadnezzar were actually armies of "many nations."
http://www.theskepticalreview.com/tsrmag/992t...
Trying to ride on the corpse of a dead horse will not get you anywhere.
That's certainly an understandable viewpoint, but would still represent only one possibility.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#114888 May 7, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
You make an excellent point. If the prophecy was only that Tyre would be attacked, that would not be a prophecy of any value. Of course, that's far from all the prophecy states. There are a number of details that make the defeating of Tyre unique. Why do you not enumerate them? Would that weaken your red car assertion?
You mean the number of details that never happened?

Again, everyday damage and raiding is not prophecy. When you extend it over a thousand years the fact that material was taken out of the city is not longer prophesy, that is to be expected. The only thing left are the things that never happened. "It will never be found again". We know exactly where Tyre is. "You will never be rebuilt". It has been rebuilt many times. "You will be buried by the sea." Nope still above water.

Only the "You will see a red car" prophesies came true.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#114889 May 7, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
What data makes you think Nebby didn't fulfill the Egyptian prophecy?
Backwards as usual again KAB. If you want to claim something happened it is up to you to show the evidence. The onus is always more on the person making a positive claim, not a negative claim.
KAB

Des Moines, IA

#114890 May 7, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean the number of details that never happened?
Again, everyday damage and raiding is not prophecy. When you extend it over a thousand years the fact that material was taken out of the city is not longer prophesy, that is to be expected. The only thing left are the things that never happened. "It will never be found again". We know exactly where Tyre is. "You will never be rebuilt". It has been rebuilt many times. "You will be buried by the sea." Nope still above water.
Only the "You will see a red car" prophesies came true.
There must be a reasson you didn't put scraping bare and throwing in the water on your list. What is it? BTW, you don't know where Tyre the island is, and the reason is obvious.
KAB

Des Moines, IA

#114891 May 7, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Backwards as usual again KAB. If you want to claim something happened it is up to you to show the evidence. The onus is always more on the person making a positive claim, not a negative claim.
If I had non-Bible evidence for Nebby conquering Egypt, I would provide it, but the present reality is very reminiscent of Sargon, the earlier years. If you choose not to accept the Bible's account, you won't be alone or the first, but you will likely eventually be proven wrong, given the Bible's track record (Matthew 24:30).

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Kalispell Montana

#114892 May 7, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
What data makes you think Nebby didn't fulfill the Egyptian prophecy?
Ezekiel prophesies the conquest of Egypt, the scattering of its entire population (it was to be uninhabited for 40 years), and Nebuchadnezzar plundering Egypt (Ezekiel 29:3 Ezekiel 30:26).

This includes the claim that God will make Egypt so weak that it will never again rule over other nations. Pharaoh Amasis II (who drove off Nebuchadnezzar) also conquered Cyprus, ruling it until 545 BC. Despite being a powerful nation in ancient times, Egypt has since been ruled by the Persians, Greeks, Romans, Byzantine Empire, Ottomans, British and the French, and has also enjoyed periods of independence from external rule.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Kalispell Montana

#114893 May 7, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
If I had non-Bible evidence for Nebby conquering Egypt, I would provide it, but the present reality is very reminiscent of Sargon, the earlier years. If you choose not to accept the Bible's account, you won't be alone or the first, but you will likely eventually be proven wrong, given the Bible's track record (Matthew 24:30).
How would Matthew know anything??

We don't even know the name of the person who wrote 'Matthew'?? He didn't know Jesus....never meet Him.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Kalispell Montana

#114894 May 7, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
What data makes you think Nebby didn't fulfill the Egyptian prophecy?
Then of course there is Damascus.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#114895 May 7, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
You make an excellent point. If the prophecy was only that Tyre would be attacked, that would not be a prophecy of any value. Of course, that's far from all the prophecy states. There are a number of details that make the defeating of Tyre unique. Why do you not enumerate them? Would that weaken your red car assertion?

Are you on drugs?

As the sane people here have all acknowledged, ALL the details are against Tyre myth.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Evolution Debate Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Evolution vs. Creation (Jul '11) 11 min dirtclod 143,185
Why natural selection can't work 18 min paul porter 30
"Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really T... (Jan '12) 37 min Richardfs 14,778
Question on complexity Common Sense says..... (May '12) 13 hr Dogen 19
Have you read the comments of avid evolutionist... (May '12) 13 hr Dogen 8
An atheistic view on evolution vs. a godly view... 22 hr ChromiuMan 966
Why Are There No Transitional Animals Today? (Mar '09) Fri dirtclod 801
More from around the web