It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

Full story: Asheville Citizen-Times

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...

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Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

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#114080
Apr 22, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Please cite the chapter and verse where "never to be inhabited again" appears.
Sure Zeke 26 14:

" 14 I will make you a bare rock, and you will become a place to spread fishnets. You will never be rebuilt, for I the Lord have spoken, declares the Sovereign Lord."

Guess what. Like most ancient cities it has been rebuilt more than once. It is still occupied today.

Level 9

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#114081
Apr 22, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Combining all the verses, the truly objective approach, it plainly states more than just Nebuchadnezzar and nowhere restricts the prophecy exclusively to the island city. Why can't you just stick to the restrictions which the content of the verses impose aa well as the leeway it allows? Your side always seems compelled to require restrictions beyond what the data does. Why is that do you think? Can you not be content with the full range of possibilities the data allows? That is what valid logic requires.
As I have pointed out to others if you extend the prophecy for too long of a period of time you trivialize the prophecy.

All cities in that area were invaded and defeated at least once in the time period that apologists want to use.

That is an attempt at changing the prophecy to one as deep as "you will see a red car".

Would you be amazed if I told you that next time you drove your car you would see a red car? If not then why would you be amazed that someone predicted a city would be invaded and defeated in an area where all of the cites were invaded and defeated during that time period.

If you think Ezekiel is a prophet for predicting that a city in a war torn area would eventually be defeated then you should think that I am a prophet for making just as amazing of a prophecy as "you will see a red car".

“That's just MY opinion...”

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#114082
Apr 22, 2013
 
Dogen wrote:
What is WORSE is that this "prophecy" appears to have been written AFTER the events it "predicts"!!!
Darn! I've claimed before that the Bible is good at predicting the past and now it appears that it may not even be good at that.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

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Since: Sep 08

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#114083
Apr 22, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
It existed. But mistaking the mainland city for Tyre is the same sort of mistake as thinking that Newark, New Jersey is New York, New York. Similar names, relatively close to each other geographically, totally different cities.
Read the prophesy. It clearly is referring to the island city whenever it talks about Tyre and it calls the mainland cities "daughter cities" or "settlements" when it refers to the land based cities.
So, yes cities existed on the land. They were not Tyre.
Odd, the way prophecy never manages to predict anything not generally known in the lifetime of the prophet.

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#114084
Apr 22, 2013
 
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Odd, the way prophecy never manages to predict anything not generally known in the lifetime of the prophet.
Or appear as a strange mistranslation of older scripture, such as the virgin birth claim, made by only two of the Gospels due to a mistranslation of ancient Hebrew and a story being made up after the fact to fit the perceived prophesy. Talk about getting caught with your pants down.
KAB

Oxford, NC

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#114085
Apr 22, 2013
 
Dogen wrote:
17 They will take up a lamentation over you and say to you,
‘How you have perished, O inhabited one,
From the seas, O renowned city,
Which was mighty on the sea,
She and her inhabitants,
Who [k]imposed [l]her terror
On all her inhabitants!
18 ‘Now the coastlands will tremble
On the day of your fall;
Yes, the coastlands which are by the sea
Will be terrified at your passing.’”
19 For thus says the Lord God,“When I make you a desolate city, like the cities which are not inhabited, when I bring up the deep over you and the great waters cover you, 20 then I will bring you down with those who go down to the pit, to the people of old, and I will make you dwell in the lower parts of the earth, like the ancient waste places, with those who go down to the pit, so that you will not [m]be inhabited; but I will set glory in the land of the living. 21 I will [n]bring terrors on you and you will be no more; though you will be sought, you will never be found again,” declares the Lord God.
Footnotes:
Ezekiel 26:2 Lit turned
Ezekiel 26:3 Heb YHWH, usually rendered Lord, and so throughout the ch
Ezekiel 26:6 Lit in the field
Ezekiel 26:7 Lit an assembly, even many people
Ezekiel 26:8 Lit in the field
Ezekiel 26:9 Lit swords
Ezekiel 26:10 Lit wheels
Ezekiel 26:12 Lit put
Ezekiel 26:13 Lit cause to cease
Ezekiel 26:16 Lit tremblings
Ezekiel 26:17 Lit put
Ezekiel 26:17 Lit their
Ezekiel 26:20 Or return
Ezekiel 26:21 Lit give you terrors
----------
Ezekiel 26 NASB
----------
Now, with the full text from a worthy source we can see a number of things.
Now, lets look at verses 7 - 12. In the place of pronouns I am going to use the proper noun being referred to. That is valid, is it not?
7 For thus says the Lord God,“Behold, I will bring upon Tyre from the north Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, king of kings, with horses, chariots, cavalry and [d]a great army. 8 [Nebuchadnezzar] will slay your daughters [e]on the mainland with the sword; and [Nebuchadnezzar] will make siege walls against you, cast up a ramp against you and raise up a large shield against you. 9 The blow of his battering rams he will direct against your walls, and with [Nebuchadnezzar's][f]axes [Nebuchadnezzar] will break down your towers. 10 Because of the multitude of [Nebuchadnezzar's] horses, the dust raised by them will cover you; your walls will shake at the noise of cavalry and [g]wagons and chariots when [Nebuchadnezzar] enters your gates as men enter a city that is breached. 11 With the hoofs of his horses [Nebuchadnezzar] will trample all your streets.[Nebuchadnezzar] will slay your people with the sword; and your strong pillars will come down to the ground. 12 Also they will make a spoil of your riches and a prey of your merchandise, break down your walls and destroy your pleasant houses, and [h]throw your stones and your timbers and your debris into the water.
So, now we see, and this should have stood out before this, what, in fact NEVER HAPPENED.
Thus, this prophecy is as false and the JW prophecies.
You bring this stuff on yourself, you know. You were doing better when you refused to supply data, because when you do you get it all wrong.
According to the verses, not you, which city was that, the island, the mainland, or unspecified, and who was specifically identified as scraping debris into the water?
KAB

Oxford, NC

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#114086
Apr 22, 2013
 
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you really not understand Madrone's statement or are you just trying to lie your way out again?
MADRONE wrote:
<quoted text>
"... along the core. These are obtained by pattern matching of recorded parameters to either absolutely dated paleoclimatic records, or to insolation variations. We show that this new time scale is in excellent agreement with the Dome Fuji andVostok ice core time scales back to 100 kyr within 1 kyr. Discrepancies larger than 3 kyr arise during MIS 5.4, 5.5 and 6, which points to anomalies in either snow accumulation or mechanical flow during these time periods. We estimate that EDC3 gives accurate event durations within 20%(2 sigma) back to MIS11 and accurate absolute ages with a maximum uncertainty of 6 kyr back to 800 kyr."
Thanks for quoting the passage. I note that it acknowledges that beyond about 100 kyr they estimate (that's science code for having no direct timestamp correlations). Did you notice that too?
KAB

Oxford, NC

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#114087
Apr 22, 2013
 
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>I see you still have a lot of free time on your hands. Ever think of taking up carpentry or wood working?
I will have to read back some on this thread to catch up to what esoteric biblical point you are claiming provides proof of whatever it is you claim. For now, I just wanted to say Hello.
Welcome back. I hope you're objectively loaded with data. I'm eager to compare notes.
KAB

Oxford, NC

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#114088
Apr 22, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
How am I biased? Here is verse 14 again:
"14 And I will make thee like the top of a rock: thou shalt be a place to spread nets upon; thou shalt be built no more: for I the Lord have spoken it, saith the Lord God."
If a places was scraped bare like the top of a rock so that its only useful purpose was a "place to spread nets upon" and right after that "thou shalt be built no more". Seriously are you that stupid that you do not understand that means it will never be built upon again?
We all know that you are not very bright KAB, but you have to be a total idiot if you do not admit that the Tyre prophesy never came true.
Nebuchadnezzar did not defeat it. The wrong king did three hundred years after the fact. It was predicted that Nebby would defeat Tyre. Even when it was defeated it was not defeated to the point in the prophesy.
And what is is called now has no bearing on the prophesy at all.
The prophecy was against Tyre and states, as you quoted, "thou (that would be Tyre) shalt be built no more". Perhaps your understanding of the English language allowed you to think that statement prohibits any human habitation from ever taking place there again, even tho that's not what it states. It's a common type of error for those not adept with language. Not to worry. I can assist you to overcome this comprehension deficiency.
KAB

Oxford, NC

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#114089
Apr 22, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
I missed this when I just responded to you.
But since you have been a denying idiot when it comes to this prophesy first you must admit that the wrong king defeated Tyre and that it is still in existence today, negating the prophesy.
No, you won't find me admitting to what is easily verified, and in this case has already been verified, as incorrect.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

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#114090
Apr 22, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
According to the verses, not you, which city was that, the island, the mainland, or unspecified, and who was specifically identified as scraping debris into the water?

The Island.

For a third time:

Nebuchadnezzar] will make siege walls against you, cast up a ramp against you and raise up a large shield against you. 9 The blow of his battering rams he will direct against your walls, and with [Nebuchadnezzar's][f]axes [Nebuchadnezzar] will break down your towers. 10 Because of the multitude of [Nebuchadnezzar's] horses, the dust raised by them will cover you; your walls will shake at the noise of cavalry and [g]wagons and chariots when [Nebuchadnezzar] enters your gates as men enter a city that is breached. 11 With the hoofs of his horses [Nebuchadnezzar] will trample all your streets.[Nebuchadnezzar] will slay your people with the sword; and your strong pillars will come down to the ground. 12 Also they will make a spoil of your riches and a prey of your merchandise, break down your walls and destroy your pleasant houses, and [h]throw your stones and your timbers and your debris into the water.

The City of Tyre was the island. That is why the text refers to the mainland as "your daughters".

DUH!

that is why it is a multiple failure as a prophecy (actually as a history, since this was written AFTER the events at Tyre).

“I am Sisyphus”

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#114091
Apr 22, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for quoting the passage. I note that it acknowledges that beyond about 100 kyr they estimate (that's science code for having no direct timestamp correlations). Did you notice that too?

At this point I think you are hallucinating.

Once again:


Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you really not understand Madrone's statement or are you just trying to lie your way out again?
MADRONE wrote:
<quoted text>
"... along the core. These are obtained by pattern matching of recorded parameters to either absolutely dated paleoclimatic records, or to insolation variations. We show that this new time scale is in excellent agreement with the Dome Fuji andVostok ice core time scales back to 100 kyr within 1 kyr. Discrepancies larger than 3 kyr arise during MIS 5.4, 5.5 and 6, which points to anomalies in either snow accumulation or mechanical flow during these time periods. We estimate that EDC3 gives accurate event durations within 20%(2 sigma) back to MIS11 and accurate absolute ages with a maximum uncertainty of 6 kyr back to 800 kyr."


Either you do not understand the text, you are lying, or both.

Read this one more time:

" and accurate absolute ages with a maximum uncertainty of 6 kyr back to 800 kyr."

Is there anyone home?

Hellooooooooo....

“That's just MY opinion...”

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#114092
Apr 22, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
Thanks for quoting the passage. I note that it acknowledges that beyond about 100 kyr they estimate (that's science code for having no direct timestamp correlations). Did you notice that too?
Do you accept, then, that dates within 100 kyr are based on data?

“I am Sisyphus”

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#114093
Apr 22, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
The prophecy was against Tyre and states, as you quoted, "thou (that would be Tyre) shalt be built no more". Perhaps your understanding of the English language allowed you to think that statement prohibits any human habitation from ever taking place there again, even tho that's not what it states. It's a common type of error for those not adept with language. Not to worry. I can assist you to overcome this comprehension deficiency.

Tyre has been built.

Tyre is still being built.

Picture worth thousand words.

http://maps.google.com/maps...

Feel free to blow it us and see all the buildings.

Perhaps language is not your first language.

This is a common type of error for those who are stupid enough to be a member of a lying mind control cult.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

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#114094
Apr 22, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Or appear as a strange mistranslation of older scripture, such as the virgin birth claim, made by only two of the Gospels due to a mistranslation of ancient Hebrew and a story being made up after the fact to fit the perceived prophesy. Talk about getting caught with your pants down.
It maketh my head to hurt.

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#114095
Apr 22, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
The prophecy was against Tyre and states, as you quoted, "thou (that would be Tyre) shalt be built no more". Perhaps your understanding of the English language allowed you to think that statement prohibits any human habitation from ever taking place there again, even tho that's not what it states. It's a common type of error for those not adept with language. Not to worry. I can assist you to overcome this comprehension deficiency.
So what do you think it means?

It does not really matter, since they did build upon Tyre again too. Like most ancient cities it is built upon its own ruins.

The prophesy failed, no matter how you look at it.

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#114096
Apr 22, 2013
 
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>It maketh my head to hurt.
LOL.
KAB

Oxford, NC

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#114097
Apr 22, 2013
 
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Jackass. Tyre is Tyre. You can't destroy the suburbs of Philadelphia and then claim to have destroyed Philadelphia itself.
BTW, the mainland was called "Ushu". I guess Ezekiel didn't know that.
Why aren't you providing confirmation of what the mainland city was known as in Nebuchadnezzar's day?
KAB

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#114098
Apr 22, 2013
 
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah, the famous spare-Tyre argument. I suspect my Red Car prophesy might come true in your own garage very soon. How's the hair?
The spare Tyre argument sure beats drawing an inappropriate conclusion.
KAB

Oxford, NC

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#114099
Apr 22, 2013
 
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Claims of rapid mountain emergence = claims of accelerated tectonic plate movement = contrary to scientific observations available concerning magnetic reversals, subduction rates, fossil evidence of climatic conditions etc.
Flood geology violates the evidence of the geologic column. If you want to claim that the Flood happened recently (right at the top of the geologic column), than that is not consistent with what is observed within the Himalayan mountain ranges or others, either...
Why don't you just provide some data?

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