It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

There are 20 comments on the Mar 15, 2009, Asheville Citizen-Times story titled It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate. In it, Asheville Citizen-Times reports that:

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Asheville Citizen-Times.

KAB

Oxford, NC

#113877 Apr 11, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it wasn't scraped bare. Where did you get that idea from?
And it was never to be inhabited again, it has always been inhabited.
And worst, the wrong person defeated Tyre. The defeat did not occur until about 300 years after the prophecy. That is not a prophecy at all. It was aimed at the king of the time, not some unknown future king.
The Tyre prophesy is the worst failure of all prophesies in the Bible and it is fun to watch fundies twist and turn in trying to defend it.
If you would admit Zeke effed up we wouldn't be able to constantly laugh at you for this giant faux pas.
Here's what not providing data gets you,

http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/battleswa...

Imagine what this does to your credibility.

Also, doesn't the prophecy actually state never to be rebuilt?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#113878 Apr 11, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's what not providing data gets you,
http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/battleswa...
Imagine what this does to your credibility.
Also, doesn't the prophecy actually state never to be rebuilt?
The error is on your part. The Tyre prophesy always referred to the island city. Not the smaller less important land based city.

Conflating the two like the authors of that article have is the same as conflating Newark, New Jersey for New York, New York.

Plus Alexander the Great was the wrong conqueror. He was about 300 years too late. The conqueror who never defeated Tyre, and yet was supposed to was Nebuchadnezzar. Earlier Chimney1 used the example of predicting that you would see a red car on a rainy day. Trying to stretch out Zeke's prediction that long in a war torn area is on the same order as Chimney1's prediction. The fact that it came true is not surprising at all.

So the city of Tyre is still alive and healthy. The hamlet that was scrapped was never the city of the prophecy. That is a double fail for you KAB. Perhaps you should do your homework before declaring victory.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#113879 Apr 11, 2013
And yes, Tyre was supposed to be never occupied again. You can read this treatment of the subject:

http://www.theskepticalreview.com/tsrmag/992t...

The king of Tyre who the prophesy was aimed at was not destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar. He gave Tyre quite a bit of trouble but he fell short of the prophecy.

Apologists try to shit the prediction to Alexander the great, but as I said, that was 300 years after the fact and that someone finally defeated Tyre after a period of 300 years of warfare back and forth across the region is no great prophesy at all.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#113880 Apr 11, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's what not providing data gets you,
http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/battleswa...
Imagine what this does to your credibility.
Also, doesn't the prophecy actually state never to be rebuilt?

YOU LOSE AGAIN, LIAR!

Go back and look at what I told you. The Prophecy, AS STATED IN THE BIBLE, FAILED!

Ezekiel 26:7

LOSER!

Move out!

Just keep tipping your hand. It's working nicely so far. However, I'm sure we are reaching the point of diminishing returns with regard to any objective observers. Except where I think there's something new and meaningful likely to be gained, you won't be getting responses. You have shown clearly that your assertions are consistently incorrect, so at this point there's generally nothing compelling a response no matter what you assert.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#113881 Apr 11, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
You can only suggest this based on colossal ignorance of the geological knowledge we now possess.
The antarctic ice cores alone, going back more than 600,000 years, prove that there was no worldwide inundation of flood waters any time since the origin of Homo Sapiens.
But added to that - a massive set of independently confirming data from the magnetic polarities on the earth to the cinoid beds, hundreds and sometimes thousands of feet thick made up of the crushed shells of countless tiny crinoids...slow depositing shales thousands of feet thick. etc etc.
Tectonic analysis shows the movement, magnetic analysis shows the rate, still measurable today, plus rock composition and fossil evidence shows the timing and the journey.
There is only one coherent explanation for all this, and it precludes any idea that less than 10,000 years ago, the seas were all shallower and the mountains far lower.
Your hypothesis is just stupendously silly. End of story.
It's not even beginning of story. You provided no data, not even for the Antarctic 600,000. I don't think that's even 600,000 measurable parametric fluctuations.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#113882 Apr 11, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Doesn't the repeated failure to get it right suggest the following to any objective viewer?
1. Your lot are not very good at interpreting scripture.
AND / OR
2. The scripture is so woolly and imprecise that accurate analysis of it and hence useful prediction is impossible.
And verily I say to you KAB, that will one day see a Red Car on a Rainy Day. When it happens, don't come beating down my door, though you will remember my prophecy.
None of the correct understanding has been mentioned, so you have no basis for an objective assessment. BTW, is the Red Car prophecy comparable to the Ezekiel Tyre prophecy? If so, explain how. Indeed, the Red Car prophecy is imprecise. A major proportion of cars are red, and a major proportion of days are rainy.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#113883 Apr 11, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not even beginning of story. You provided no data, not even for the Antarctic 600,000. I don't think that's even 600,000 measurable parametric fluctuations.

You have no data refuting the data.

You are empty.

You are nothing and have nothing.

Testing for future nonexistence?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#113884 Apr 11, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
None of the correct understanding has been mentioned, so you have no basis for an objective assessment. BTW, is the Red Car prophecy comparable to the Ezekiel Tyre prophecy? If so, explain how. Indeed, the Red Car prophecy is imprecise. A major proportion of cars are red, and a major proportion of days are rainy.

They are not alike. Tyre was a failed prophecy. The red car, no doubt, a successful one.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#113885 Apr 11, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
You can invent any scenario you like and if you just keep making up more shit, it could have happened. As follows....
- Not enough water...lets make the mountains lower
- No food for the ark survivors (iei all the animals)when they got of the boat...God took care of them
- Magnetic reversals don't match...God made them happen faster
- Radiometric dating does not support....lets just speed it up by 700,000 times over the period
- Light could not reach earth from distant galaxies...we will speed that up too.
- Not enough space for all the species on the ark...we will allow massively accelerated micro-evolution from a few root kinds
- Periods of volcanism so vast that if they were compressed into 100,000 let alone 10,000 years, the earth would be poisonous and barren
- 600,000 and more, years of continuous buildup of the antarctic ice sheets, which would have been completely disrupted by a WW Flood - I don't even know what shit you have made up to get around that one.
- Molecular clocks and haplotype analysis do not support genetic bottlenecks...well, since we are accelerating radiation, light speed, tectonic drift, magnetic reversals, we might as well accelerate these too.
Starting to see a pattern here? All the evidence is against you, and if you had one ounce of the "data based" objectivity you claim, then you would abandon your nonsense.
The pattern I see is that of continuing lists of assertions sans data confirming even one of them. You have so many from which to choose, why not provide data for one and bring this to a conclusion? The ignorant one is the one who can only assert, which repeatedly seems to be your side.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#113886 Apr 11, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
None of the correct understanding has been mentioned, so you have no basis for an objective assessment. BTW, is the Red Car prophecy comparable to the Ezekiel Tyre prophecy? If so, explain how. Indeed, the Red Car prophecy is imprecise. A major proportion of cars are red, and a major proportion of days are rainy.
You could have used better language. Rainy days and red cars are both fairly common. And the odds of a city being defeated in the Middle East over a period of 300 years in the time before Christ approaches 100%.

What would be difficult to do would be to find a city that was not defeated.

The prophesy applied to the king at that time and Nebuchadnezzar. The prophesy did not come true at that time. So what if it was finally defeated 300 years later. That is a grossly failed prophesy.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#113887 Apr 11, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
The pattern I see is that of continuing lists of assertions sans data confirming even one of them. You have so many from which to choose, why not provide data for one and bring this to a conclusion? The ignorant one is the one who can only assert, which repeatedly seems to be your side.

The pattern I see is that of continuing lists of assertions sans data confirming even one of them. You have one to choose, why not provide data for one and bring this to a conclusion? The ignorant one is the one who can only assert, which repeatedly seems to be you personally.

I notice you continue to run away from my data and my questions.

I wonder why that is?

KAB

Oxford, NC

#113888 Apr 11, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
You must be new here James. You have no idea how much continuous BS these guys will make up to try and circumvent not only the excellent evidence you have offered, but all evidence everywhere. See my above post for a small sample.
Its a lesson in what happens when fear and hope have taken over a man's soul, and reason can no longer penetrate. They will believe ANYTHING so long as they can believe their fantasy. No amount of reason and data will change them.
You keep making reference to your endless drumbeat of assertions, now including James' and unfortunately encouraging him with kudos, as if it was data. Why don't you actually provide data, or don't you know the difference? If so, I can help you to distinguish. Of course, you could just follow my lead.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#113889 Apr 11, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
When those documents come from multiple disinterested sources, they are more credible than those from sources with a reason to fabricate or exaggerate.
Then we should at least confirm the multiple disinterested sources. Don't be too surprised if they're all named Manetho.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#113890 Apr 11, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you actually think anyone cares what you've agreed to? The view of modern science is that the Himalayas WERE roughly the same 4500 years ago. If you have evidence to the contrary, then it is YOUR obligation to present it and prove your assertion.
Or you can simply continue to be the lying little twit we all know and love.
Why do you suppose none of those flourishing civilizations 4500 years ago recorded how magnificent the Himalayas were?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#113891 Apr 11, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you suppose none of those flourishing civilizations 4500 years ago recorded how magnificent the Himalayas were?
Perhaps because flourishing civilizations tend to form along navigable waterways.

What navigable waterways are associated with the Himalayas?
KAB

Oxford, NC

#113892 Apr 11, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
It wasn't so STFU.
The challenge to which I responded didn't include that restriction.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#113893 Apr 11, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you suppose none of those flourishing civilizations 4500 years ago recorded how magnificent the Himalayas were?
...or why they never wrote about a global flood?
...or a giant boat that held a bunch of animals and 6 people (excluding them, of course)?
KAB

Oxford, NC

#113894 Apr 11, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
I did not request that you nay-say science.
I asked for your source that states that the mountains were thousands of feet lower and the oceans were shallower pre-flood and that they grew by thousands of feet while the oceans deepened by thousands of feet immediately following the alleged global flood.
OBVIOUSLY, you AGAIN/STILL CHOOSE to miss the point in what you consider a winning stratagem of dodge, distort, distract.
I don't nay-say science. I nay-say those who abuse science, in particular by ignoring the data it provides.

I know of no sources who were present and recorded those aspects of what Earth was like 4500 years ago.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#113895 Apr 11, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Ezekiel 26:2–14
NIV
I am against you, Tyre, and I will bring many nations against you, like the sea casting up its waves. 4 They will destroy the walls of Tyre and pull down her towers; I will scrape away her rubble and make her a bare rock. 5 Out in the sea she will become a place to spread fishnets, for I have spoken, declares the Sovereign Lord. She will become plunder for the nations, 6 and her settlements on the mainland will be ravaged by the sword. Then they will know that I am the Lord.
7 “For this is what the Sovereign Lord says: From the north I am going to bring against Tyre Nebuchadnezzar[b] king of Babylon, king of kings, with horses and chariots, with horsemen and a great army. 8 He will ravage your settlements on the mainland with the sword; he will set up siege works against you, build a ramp up to your walls and raise his shields against you. 9 He will direct the blows of his battering rams against your walls and demolish your towers with his weapons. 10 His horses will be so many that they will cover you with dust. Your walls will tremble at the noise of the warhorses, wagons and chariots when he enters your gates as men enter a city whose walls have been broken through. 11 The hooves of his horses will trample all your streets; he will kill your people with the sword, and your strong pillars will fall to the ground. 12 They will plunder your wealth and loot your merchandise; they will break down your walls and demolish your fine houses and throw your stones, timber and rubble into the sea. 13 I will put an end to your noisy songs, and the music of your harps will be heard no more. 14 I will make you a bare rock, and you will become a place to spread fishnets. You will never be rebuilt, for I the Lord have spoken, declares the Sovereign Lord.
----------
Historic fact: Nebuchadnezzar never destroyed Tyre.
"The Tyrians held off Nebuchadnezzar's siege for thirteen years, resupplying the walled island city through its two harbours. The siege ended when Tyre agreed to pay a tribute."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyre,_Lebanon
Seems we have another refutation.
How many is that now?
Who destroyed the mainland city?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#113896 Apr 11, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Who destroyed the mainland city?
Why do you ask?

That was not the city of the prophesy.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Evolution Debate Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Darwin on the rocks (Sep '14) 2 hr In Six Days 1,327
News Evolution vs. Creation (Jul '11) 2 hr Tinka 160,757
News "Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really T... (Jan '12) 10 hr Dogen 18,668
god is not real!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Jun '06) 16 hr Ooogah Boogah 13,668
News Should evolution be taught in high school? (Feb '08) 18 hr hpcaban 178,585
Guadeloupe Woman Found (1812 (Mar '10) Thu MikeF 73
Evolution Debunked (Jan '08) Apr 21 rationalreasoner 278
More from around the web