It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the ...

It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

There are 163795 comments on the Asheville Citizen-Times story from Mar 15, 2009, titled It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate. In it, Asheville Citizen-Times reports that:

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Asheville Citizen-Times.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#113911 Apr 13, 2013
air force grl wrote:
I finally made it! Started at page one and finally made it to the end.
Enough of that lol :)
But on the subject of civilizations during the flood time, i don't remember if anyone mentioned the Ortoiroid people. Just a quick cursory search so any corrections if i got my dates wrong are welcome.(Not from KAB. Haven't been reading for the past 2 years and not know how you work.)
http://www.nps.gov/seac/outline/06-carib_preh...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ortoiroid_people
i'll do some more digging on these guys. Its been awesome reading you guys for this long :)
Excellent!

I brought up the Ortoiroid people (perhaps on a differnet thread) a while back (a year or so?).

Even so, welcome! Glad to have another rational person on board.

“It's over 9000!”

Level 1

Since: Mar 09

somewhere in the desert

#113912 Apr 13, 2013
thanks! i grew to respect alot of you guys the two years it took me too read this entire thread :) You may have brought them up on this one but it might be too far back for me to remember.
i have learned alot "running the rabbits" as marksman would say so if nothing else comes from this debate you have increased one persons knowledge.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#113913 Apr 13, 2013
air force grl wrote:
thanks! i grew to respect alot of you guys the two years it took me too read this entire thread :) You may have brought them up on this one but it might be too far back for me to remember.
i have learned alot "running the rabbits" as marksman would say so if nothing else comes from this debate you have increased one persons knowledge.
Yes. I have also learned quite a bit from these threads. That's one of my reasons for being here. Specifically, ERV's.

But the discussions also encourage me to research outside of these threads.

Again, glad to have you here!

No more lurking silently now!

Jump in, and join the fray!

;-)

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#113914 Apr 13, 2013
air force grl wrote:
thanks! i grew to respect alot of you guys the two years it took me too read this entire thread :) You may have brought them up on this one but it might be too far back for me to remember.
i have learned alot "running the rabbits" as marksman would say so if nothing else comes from this debate you have increased one persons knowledge.
I am sure parts of it were horribly repetitive, as these arguments do have ways of going around in circles...

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#113915 Apr 13, 2013
Olin Moyle
KAB

Lexington, NC

#113916 Apr 13, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry Mr. Chicken Feces, but no. Your dataless assertion is again wrong.
Egyptians, Sumarians, Chinese an Indians have time lines that extend through the entire time period of the alleged flood.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25th_century_BC
Again your lies are called out.
And you did not comment on the list of FAILED Watchtower prophecies. What does the bible say about false prophets?
And explain to me again (I must have missed it the first time) why would immediate decedents of Noah (et al) multiply like bunnies and rush off to continue the work of wicked civilizations that were marked for destruction by God?
And lets look at your hundred year window. How do 7 people generate 30 million people in less than 100 years. You can assume all 3 of the women were preggers with twins while on the boat, if you like. I come up with 25,000 tops (and assuming nearly 0 child and mother mortality which we know isn't real). Estimated world population is 30,000,000 at the end of the millennium and evidenced a substantial growth over the 3rd millennium.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_millennium_B...
Look at the list of events, above. Where do you want to schedule that flood for? Pick your best date.
Keep cowering. I don't expect an answer because you can never seem to provide any.
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text> You mean like the reliable source of the WatchTower cult. You want to review their failed prophecies?
I didn't think so, Mr. Chickenfeces.
Or how about the NWT which you have proven inept and incompetent at defending?
Ah,... not up for it, eh?
I am not surprised.
<quoted text>A comprehensive knowledge of the Bible also makes the JW cult followers look like morons.
http://www.youtube.com/watch ...
<quoted text>So we have already won. We have pointed out many errors and you have been reduced to a babbling fool in trying to defend it. Sloshing mud around in a bucket is not a defense. Demonstrating pi=3 would be better. But what I rEALLy want to see is you explain how the Egyptians never even noticed the flood and continued building pyramids and expanding their civilization.
Keep cowering. I don't expect an answer because you can never seem to provide any
No data there, just summary statements. Just what I've come to expect from you.
KAB

Lexington, NC

#113917 Apr 13, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Another lie. You are on a roll again. You JWs have no morals.
You need to read through the list again. These were INTENDED as PROPHECIES when they were written. I know the JW cult has been trying to spin them for decades and have give up shooting themselves in this particular foot.
How do you feel about the Watchtower going back and editing old versions of their literature to take out damaging text? Don't you think that is dishonest?
How do you feel about settling lawsuits for millions of dollars to keep from having to deal with publicity in their wrongful death suits and child molestation cases?
If you were the only watchtower cultist I knew, what would my opinion about the morals of watchtower cultists be?
Rem: I consider lying to be immoral.
Spin has nothing to do with it. Just compare the Jehovah's Witness material to the Bible prophecies, and it's obvious it is presented as understanding of those prophecies.

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#113918 Apr 13, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
No data there, just summary statements. Just what I've come to expect from you.

I love it when you have nothing Mr. Chicken Feces.

At least calling you Mr. Chicken Feces is a good summary statement.

And it is good that you are helpless to refute any of my summary statements.

Not the first time I have crushed your massive ego. Won't be the last.

You going to get around to answering any of my questions?

Are all JWs cowards like you?

Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry Mr. Chicken Feces, but no. Your dataless assertion is again wrong.
Egyptians, Sumarians, Chinese an Indians have time lines that extend through the entire time period of the alleged flood.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25th_century_BC
Again your lies are called out.
And you did not comment on the list of FAILED Watchtower prophecies. What does the bible say about false prophets?
And explain to me again (I must have missed it the first time) why would immediate decedents of Noah (et al) multiply like bunnies and rush off to continue the work of wicked civilizations that were marked for destruction by God?
And lets look at your hundred year window. How do 7 people generate 30 million people in less than 100 years. You can assume all 3 of the women were preggers with twins while on the boat, if you like. I come up with 25,000 tops (and assuming nearly 0 child and mother mortality which we know isn't real). Estimated world population is 30,000,000 at the end of the millennium and evidenced a substantial growth over the 3rd millennium.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_millennium_B ...
Look at the list of events, above. Where do you want to schedule that flood for? Pick your best date.
Keep cowering. I don't expect an answer because you can never seem to provide any.
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text> You mean like the reliable source of the WatchTower cult. You want to review their failed prophecies?
I didn't think so, Mr. Chickenfeces.
Or how about the NWT which you have proven inept and incompetent at defending?
Ah,... not up for it, eh?
I am not surprised.
<quoted text>A comprehensive knowledge of the Bible also makes the JW cult followers look like morons.
http://www.youtube.com/watch ...
<quoted text>So we have already won. We have pointed out many errors and you have been reduced to a babbling fool in trying to defend it. Sloshing mud around in a bucket is not a defense. Demonstrating pi=3 would be better. But what I rEALLy want to see is you explain how the Egyptians never even noticed the flood and continued building pyramids and expanding their civilization.
Keep cowering. I don't expect an answer because you can never seem to provide any

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#113919 Apr 13, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Spin has nothing to do with it. Just compare the Jehovah's Witness material to the Bible prophecies, and it's obvious it is presented as understanding of those prophecies.

I have. That is how I proved that JWs are liars, distorters, spinners, murders, adulterers and bearers of false witness.


Just keep tipping your hand. It's working nicely so far. However, I'm sure we are reaching the point of diminishing returns with regard to any objective observers. Except where I think there's something new and meaningful likely to be gained, you won't be getting responses. You have shown clearly that your assertions are consistently incorrect, so at this point there's generally nothing compelling a response no matter what you assert.




Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Another lie. You are on a roll again. You JWs have no morals.
You need to read through the list again. These were INTENDED as PROPHECIES when they were written. I know the JW cult has been trying to spin them for decades and have give up shooting themselves in this particular foot.
How do you feel about the Watchtower going back and editing old versions of their literature to take out damaging text? Don't you think that is dishonest?
How do you feel about settling lawsuits for millions of dollars to keep from having to deal with publicity in their wrongful death suits and child molestation cases?
If you were the only watchtower cultist I knew, what would my opinion about the morals of watchtower cultists be?
Rem: I consider lying to be immoral.
KAB

Lexington, NC

#113920 Apr 13, 2013
Dogen wrote:
More for KAB to run from:
"The Watchtower Society claims that certain words are inserted with [brackets] within
the New World Translation to make for smoother reading in English. They also claim
these "inserted words" do not change the meaning of the original text. "
RE: New World Translation.Colossians 1:16,17
The verses here from Colossians
are a striking example of the
Watchtower Society's intentional
alteration of the actual Greek
Scriptures. The word [other] was
inserted four times to make it
appear that Jesus was created
first by Jehovah, and then Jesus
was used by Jehovah to create all
other things in the universe. This
is of course to support their
unorthodox teachings that Jesus
was merely a created being and
not God."
"Interestingly, within the Watchtower Society's own
publication (The Kingdom Interlinear Translation
of the Greek Scriptures) the word "other" does not
appear within the actual Greek translation of
Colossians 1:16 and 17."
"How can the Society acknowledge the original Greek text, yet insert a word that clearly
does not belong? The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures (the
above publication that all Jehovah's Witnesses should spend more time reading)
includes an appendix for the reader to understand why the Society interprets the
Scriptures the way they do. However, the Society's translation of these particular verses
from Colossians do not contain an explanation of the insertion [other]. The reader is
simply cross-referenced to the verses at Luke 11:41,42, where they will also see the
word [other] erroneously inserted with no explanation as to why?"
http://www.sixscreensofthewatchtower.com/neww...
The NWT explanation of the use of brackets is clearly given in, of all places, the explanatory material in the volume. Go figure! Why didn't you mention that?
KAB

Lexington, NC

#113921 Apr 13, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
I have shown that you were wrong every time we got into a discussion.
By the way, for most of your idiotic ideas data is not needed to debunk them, simple logic will do.
You make idiotic claim after idiotic claim and forget all of the ones that have been debunked.
The simple fact that there IS NO EVIDENCE for a world wide flood debunks it in the first place.
You are the one making the claim, it is up to you to defend your claim not us.
Moron.
You have not confirmed that the worldwide flood timeframe sediment in the Northern Canada global scale flood gauge could not be from a worldwide flood. Thus, it constitutes evidence for a worldwide flood.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#113922 Apr 13, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
You have not confirmed that the worldwide flood timeframe sediment in the Northern Canada global scale flood gauge could not be from a worldwide flood. Thus, it constitutes evidence for a worldwide flood.
no, it constitutes mental illness and/or moral bankruptcy.
KAB

Lexington, NC

#113923 Apr 13, 2013
Dogen wrote:
KAB
DATA:
http://www.soundwitness.org/jw/a_glaring_exam...
Has the Watchtower cult corrected this glitch yet?
If Jesus quoted the Hebrew scriptures repeatedly without actually quoting them (i.e., substituted "Lord" for "YHWH" for example), then you have a point. What would be the chances of that happening?
KAB

Lexington, NC

#113924 Apr 13, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
The error is on your part. The Tyre prophesy always referred to the island city. Not the smaller less important land based city.
Conflating the two like the authors of that article have is the same as conflating Newark, New Jersey for New York, New York.
Plus Alexander the Great was the wrong conqueror. He was about 300 years too late. The conqueror who never defeated Tyre, and yet was supposed to was Nebuchadnezzar. Earlier Chimney1 used the example of predicting that you would see a red car on a rainy day. Trying to stretch out Zeke's prediction that long in a war torn area is on the same order as Chimney1's prediction. The fact that it came true is not surprising at all.
So the city of Tyre is still alive and healthy. The hamlet that was scrapped was never the city of the prophecy. That is a double fail for you KAB. Perhaps you should do your homework before declaring victory.
I notice you didn't use the scriptures to confirm your assertions, such as clearly, only, and without any other possible understanding, menitoning only the island city.

BTW, keep in mind that what's amazing is in the specific details, not exactly "red car" and "rainy day" calibre.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#113925 Apr 13, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
You have not confirmed that the worldwide flood timeframe sediment in the Northern Canada global scale flood gauge could not be from a worldwide flood. Thus, it constitutes evidence for a worldwide flood.
No, you have it backwards, there is no legitimate reason to believe it came from a worldwide flood. Just because we have not explained where every speck of dust or dirt comes from does not automatically make that dirt or dust evidence for a flood.

Your logic has totally failed you.

Poor KAB,

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#113926 Apr 13, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
I notice you didn't use the scriptures to confirm your assertions, such as clearly, only, and without any other possible understanding, menitoning only the island city.
BTW, keep in mind that what's amazing is in the specific details, not exactly "red car" and "rainy day" calibre.
What specific details? Tyre is still there, it was never scraped into the sea. Do you really want the specific verses quoted to you to show how terrible this prediction was?
KAB

Lexington, NC

#113927 Apr 13, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
And yes, Tyre was supposed to be never occupied again. You can read this treatment of the subject:
http://www.theskepticalreview.com/tsrmag/992t...
The king of Tyre who the prophesy was aimed at was not destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar. He gave Tyre quite a bit of trouble but he fell short of the prophecy.
Apologists try to shit the prediction to Alexander the great, but as I said, that was 300 years after the fact and that someone finally defeated Tyre after a period of 300 years of warfare back and forth across the region is no great prophesy at all.
Your reference acknowledges that the prophecy states that many nations would give Tyre trouble, and that many nations did. Everyone is entitiled to his own apologetics, but "multiple nations" partnering together is not the same thing as a single empire which includes multiple ethnicities, an equivalence your reference tried to draw. There are additional difficulties with your reference, but this is sufficient to undermine its credibility.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#113928 Apr 13, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Your reference acknowledges that the prophecy states that many nations would give Tyre trouble, and that many nations did. Everyone is entitiled to his own apologetics, but "multiple nations" partnering together is not the same thing as a single empire which includes multiple ethnicities, an equivalence your reference tried to draw. There are additional difficulties with your reference, but this is sufficient to undermine its credibility.
The biggest problem for the Tyre prophesy is that the king of Tyre was not defeated and routed totally by Nebuchadnezzar. Tyre was defeated three hundred years later by Alexander the Great. Wrong ruler, wrong time, totally unrelated to the prophesy.

“It's over 9000!”

Level 1

Since: Mar 09

somewhere in the desert

#113929 Apr 13, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I am sure parts of it were horribly repetitive, as these arguments do have ways of going around in circles...
I know a few times I thought if I saw MM in a ALL CAPS RAGE yell "crack its outta here" one more time i was going to either fling my computer across the room or fly from Japan to NC and beat him with my computer. Such nonsense. Made quite a few laugh with the oak trees logic :) Looking forward to (hopefully) helping the debate along even if I am a lowly airplane mechanic XD

“It's over 9000!”

Level 1

Since: Mar 09

somewhere in the desert

#113930 Apr 13, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
I have. That is how I proved that JWs are liars, distorters, spinners, murders, adulterers and bearers of false witness.
Just keep tipping your hand. It's working nicely so far. However, I'm sure we are reaching the point of diminishing returns with regard to any objective observers. Except where I think there's something new and meaningful likely to be gained, you won't be getting responses. You have shown clearly that your assertions are consistently incorrect, so at this point there's generally nothing compelling a response no matter what you assert.
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Another lie. You are on a roll again. You JWs have no morals.
You need to read through the list again. These were INTENDED as PROPHECIES when they were written. I know the JW cult has been trying to spin them for decades and have give up shooting themselves in this particular foot.
How do you feel about the Watchtower going back and editing old versions of their literature to take out damaging text? Don't you think that is dishonest?
How do you feel about settling lawsuits for millions of dollars to keep from having to deal with publicity in their wrongful death suits and child molestation cases?
If you were the only watchtower cultist I knew, what would my opinion about the morals of watchtower cultists be?
Rem: I consider lying to be immoral.
Hey Dogen, I did want to get your opinion of this page I came across when I googled "bible scholars and the NWT" after following alot of your conversation with KAB on the subject. What were your thoughts about the scholar quotes at the top of the page? It has a nice list of verses and how they were changed and why.
(The design of the webpage itself sucks so beware lol)
Thanks for taking a look!

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