It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

Full story: Asheville Citizen-Times

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...

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“I am Sisyphus”

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#113638
Apr 7, 2013
 
Infinite Force wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure I can because absolute truths are universal concepts (all situations) which means it applies to all because nature governs all! So observing water on a universal scale I must ask WHOM IS THE WATER BENEFICIAL TO!
So I will choose humans as the whom and when I apply the law of non-contradiction the answer must never change to the OPPOSITE answer so it’s either A or B for ETERNITY!
A. Water “is” beneficial to humans
B. Water “is not” beneficial to humans
The law of non-contradiction states I can NEVER change my answer to B in the same given situation.
Because if I do I would violate the law of non-contradiction when it applies to water as beneficial to humans!

Most of the passengers of the Titanic would not agree with your formulation.

More importantly your "law" does not account for the data. The ONLY requirement for a law is that it account for the interaction of the variables that make up the data. Your does not do that so fails as a law.

Good luck, though. Most people think all the mathematical constants have been discovered, but a friend of mine discovered a new one in 1999.

“I am Sisyphus”

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#113639
Apr 7, 2013
 
Infinite Force wrote:
<quoted text>
To WHOM is oxygen beneficial to is the statement you apply the law of non-contradiction to and pick a A or B.
Let’s pick cows for the WHOM the oxygen is beneficial to and the answer is A and it will NEVER change to B because this would be an OPPOSITE answer and violate the law of non-contradiction!
<quoted text>
Natural food good or natural food bad or OPPOSITES and natural food is not BAD JUST BECAUSE “YOU CHOSE” TO CONSUME TOO MUCH! YOU ARE USING TWO OPPSITE ANSWERS AND CLAIMING IT AS THE SAME!
Conclusion, natural food is ALWAYS good to say it is not in any given time would violate the law of non-contradiction because you must pick either/or!

Same problem: the actual relationship you are alleging does not actually exist and the concepts you are calling "opposite" are not, in fact, opposite at all.

“See how you are?”

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#113640
Apr 7, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
I am referring to post-flood increased land peak elevations above sea level of many thousands of feet, and much greater average ocean depths.
Pure speculation. Where is the data from any Biblical, historic, geologic or oceanographic source to support that supposition?

“Universal Conscious Conscience”

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#113641
Apr 7, 2013
 
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
This appears to be an unsupportable assertion. If you have any evidence of this then please present it.
Nature is the evidence and the physical reality is explained with information we DISCOVER when learning about nature (physical reality). The physical reality (nature) demonstrates it does not contradict itself. If any information used to explain the physical reality we live in contradicts it’s self this is the violation of the law of non-contradiction found in nature!

1. Time “does” exist!

2. Time “did not” exist until physical universe was formed proposed by scientist violates the law of non-contradiction found in nature!

YOU CAN’T SAY TIME EXITS AND DOES NOT EXIST (OPPOSING TERMS) ON A UNIVERSAL SCALE AND CONCLUDE THAT BOTH OPPOSING ANSWERS IS RIGHT BECAUSE NATURE DOES NOT CONTRADICT ITS SELF AND SO MUST NOT THE INFORMATION WE USE IN NATURE TO EXPLAIN HOW IT WORKS!
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
We actually don't know what, if any, information existed when time began.
Because you and others try to disprove an absolute truth called the law of non-contradiction found in nature! YOU CAN’T DO THIS AND YOU ARE INSANE FOR TRYING! Absolute truths found in nature are dis-provable and un-falsifiable and since nature (absolute truth) is un-falsifiable your scientific method is dis-qualified when it comes to speaking about nature (an un-deniable absolute truth)!

If you can’t accept this YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE TALKING ABOUT NATURE/REALITY BECAUSE IT IS AN ABSOLUTE TRUTH YOU CANNOT DIS-PROVE OR FALSIFY!

“Universal Conscious Conscience”

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#113642
Apr 7, 2013
 
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Nature, it would appear, "contradicts" itself all the time and in many ways.
NO! You contradict yourself and your scientific method is dis-qualified when talking about absolute truth because this is what nature is!
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
If a law is demonstrated untrue then it is no longer a law.
This is a silly/foolish statement because you can’t disprove nature existence because it is an absolute truth! YOU CAN’T DISPROVE ABSOLUTE TRUTHS SO STOP TRYING!
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Thus so the LAW OF NON-CONTRADICTION must pass into oblivion.
THE LAW OF NON-CONTRADICTION IS A NON-FLAWED (FLAWLESS) SCIENTIFIC LAW FOUND ON AN UN-DENIABLE ABOLUTE TRUTH CALLED NATURE.

ON THE CONTRARY, YOUR FLAWED WAY OF THINKING HAS DESTINED YOU TO OBLIVION!

NATURE IS NOT FLAWED (CONTRADICT ITS SELF) YOUR THINKING IS!

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

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#113643
Apr 7, 2013
 

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Infinite Force wrote:
<quoted text>
NO! You contradict yourself and your scientific method is dis-qualified when talking about absolute truth because this is what nature is!
<quoted text>
This is a silly/foolish statement because you can’t disprove nature existence because it is an absolute truth! YOU CAN’T DISPROVE ABSOLUTE TRUTHS SO STOP TRYING!
<quoted text>
THE LAW OF NON-CONTRADICTION IS A NON-FLAWED (FLAWLESS) SCIENTIFIC LAW FOUND ON AN UN-DENIABLE ABOLUTE TRUTH CALLED NATURE.
ON THE CONTRARY, YOUR FLAWED WAY OF THINKING HAS DESTINED YOU TO OBLIVION!
NATURE IS NOT FLAWED (CONTRADICT ITS SELF) YOUR THINKING IS!
Oh, dear.

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#113644
Apr 7, 2013
 

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macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Oh, dear.
I know, it appears that Infinite Force would more aptly be named Infinite Farce.

The man, and I assume it is a man, truly has psychological problems.

“See how you are?”

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#113645
Apr 7, 2013
 
Infinite Force wrote:
<quoted text>
Time is not an absolute truth eternity is because information has no beginning or ending!
Applying the “the law of non-contradiction” to the immaterial (information) states does information exist or don’t! Observation shows us information (immaterial evidence)) exists and we discover it! So if it “exists now” and you are saying it “didn’t exist” until the beginning of time this is a violation of the law of non-contradiction!
A. Information “do exist”
B. Information “did not exist” until time begin
Apply the law of non-contradiction and you are in violation of it because you have two “OPPOSITE” answers and claiming it to be the “SAME”. YOU CAN’T DO THIS! IT MUST BE EITHER/OR AND IF YOU PICK BOTH OPPOSITE ANSWERS YOU CONTRADICT YOURSELF AND VIOLATE THE LAW OF NON-CONTRADICTION!
<quoted text>
Rather a photon is a particle or wave is irrelevant when it comes to existence because we know it is physical evidence (photon) that we observe thus proving its EXISTENCE!
To say a photon DO EXIST AND DOES NOT EXIST is choosing OPPOSITE answers (THE VIOLATION OF THE LAW OF NON-CONTRADICTION) and concluding they are the same! My final point is that a photon exists and has a unique behavior when observing it!
The law of non-contradiction is an absolute truth observed in nature because nature does not contradict its self and it governs information!
"So if it “exists now” and you are saying it “didn’t exist” until the beginning of time this is a violation of the law of non-contradiction!"

You are saying that information "existed" "before" time. No matter what box of Cracker Jacks you got that idea out of, you are not logical. Obviously you "discovered" the laws of classical thought (probably from an apologists blog) and it rocked your world. Tsk, tsk.

Columbus discovered America - true or false?
Water is simultaneously hot and cold - true or false?
Electrons can be in 2 places simultaneously - true of false?
A photon is simultaneously a particle with mass and an energetic waveform - true or false?

Information is not an object, it is conceptual.'It' is not governed by nature.'It' is not governed by a deity.'It' is not governed by you.'It''did' not exist 'prior' to space time, and neither 'did' anything else.
KAB

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#113646
Apr 7, 2013
 
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Pure speculation. Where is the data from any Biblical, historic, geologic or oceanographic source to support that supposition?
If you'll recall, I'm just following your lead,

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TFA...

Do you not believe yourself?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

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#113647
Apr 8, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
I realize that. You don't do sufficient questioning.
I question you. I question your honesty. I question your sanity. That is sufficient.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

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#113648
Apr 8, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Have I ever disputed their modern history?
Depends what you mean by 'modern' but, yes, you dispute history.
KAB wrote:
Do they presently show a knowledge of floods?
Of local floods, yes. Of global floods? Some do, some don't. If there was a global flood, they should all.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

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#113649
Apr 8, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Adam and Eve created about 6,000 years ago.
The flood about 4400 years ago.
Moses about 3500 years ago.
Prove it, Mr Data.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

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#113650
Apr 8, 2013
 
Kong_ wrote:
...and no, no "one year granularity" has been indicated>>
Nor is it a requirement.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

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#113651
Apr 8, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Since you state you've been watching and obviously are not on my side, here's an objectivity, sincerity, and loyalty test all rolled into one for you. What have you observed regarding Dogen and the veracity of his assertions, especially related to when he directly challenges me to prove him wrong regarding content of previous posts? I hope you're courageous enough to realize that this is for his ultimate good. The sooner and more he comes to grips with the reality the more therapeutic it will be for him. I'm concerned he may not see the forest for his own trees. Do you want to share the responsibility for leaving him there?
Hilarity! KAB talking about coming to grips with the reality. Of course, he's too far gone to see the irony.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

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#113652
Apr 8, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
I am referring to post-flood increased land peak elevations above sea level of many thousands of feet, and much greater average ocean depths.
Where's the data?

Oh, that's right! Everyone has to provide data except you. Sorry. I forgot.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

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#113653
Apr 8, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
I only expound on what I know and can provide data to confirm...
Bullshit. See my last post.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

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#113654
Apr 8, 2013
 
Infinite Force wrote:
A. Water “is” beneficial to humans
B. Water “is not” beneficial to humans
The law of non-contradiction states I can NEVER change my answer to B in the same given situation.
Because if I do I would violate the law of non-contradiction when it applies to water as beneficial to humans!
A. Water “is” beneficial to humans

Because they require it to live.

B. Water “is not” beneficial to humans

When they drown.

Your law of non-contradiction is nonsense.

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#113655
Apr 8, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Too bad that you don't know what proper scientific evidence is.
THen why am I the only one in here applying the demands of the scientific method?
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
And there is no debate.
HAHAHAHA>....then what are we doing?
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text> In the scientific world there is not debate. There is only a handful of kooks who disbelieve it, and they have no academic credibility at all.
That's pure BS. THere are many highly trained and qualified scientists that reject evolution.
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text> As a percentage there are 5 times as many historians who deny the holocaust as scientists who deny evolution.
Prove it!
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Now when it comes to uneducated people there are plenty of disbelievers. There is a reason that we do not go to uneducated people for opinions.
Maybe you should, because no one is completely uneducated. I am a musician. I have played for 43 years. I can learn things from beginners. Many times the truth is not found in classic education, but the ability to look at things differently and honestly. It wasn't scientists that built the first airplane, it was bicycle builders. Look at Michael Faraday and all the things he invented, and he was uneducated. William Herschel was a musican, not an astronomer, yet he discovered 2 moons and a planet. And don't forget Gregor Mendel who is a religious uneducated monk, but the father of Genetics! Sooo....there were those around Mendel like you. THey didn't believe him either. He was nothing but an uneducated monk. Also like you, now they look stupid.

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#113656
Apr 8, 2013
 
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks, that is a compliment.
No it wasn't

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#113657
Apr 8, 2013
 
TheEvolutionDouche wrote:
The funniest thing about this whole thread is the fact that people who claim evolution is not real clearly knows nothing about it. Its not "we all came from monkeys." Actually evolution exists today. For example, there are cases in which humans are being born without wisdom teeth and overall, they are smaller than previous generations. Adaptation to your environment is all evolution really is. You keep things you need, develop aspects that are most beneficial to your survival, and lose things that hinders it.
My favorite argument is "God created humans and the Earth therefore evolution is not real." Well if he is truly the all mighty then why is the scientific fact of evolution out of the realm of his power?
Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean you have to fear and deny it.
What you are talking about in micro evolution. That isn't debated. It has been observed. Human from non-human evolution has never been documented observed in the history of the planet.

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