It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

Full story: Asheville Citizen-Times

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...
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#113655
Apr 8, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Too bad that you don't know what proper scientific evidence is.
THen why am I the only one in here applying the demands of the scientific method?
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
And there is no debate.
HAHAHAHA>....then what are we doing?
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text> In the scientific world there is not debate. There is only a handful of kooks who disbelieve it, and they have no academic credibility at all.
That's pure BS. THere are many highly trained and qualified scientists that reject evolution.
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text> As a percentage there are 5 times as many historians who deny the holocaust as scientists who deny evolution.
Prove it!
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Now when it comes to uneducated people there are plenty of disbelievers. There is a reason that we do not go to uneducated people for opinions.
Maybe you should, because no one is completely uneducated. I am a musician. I have played for 43 years. I can learn things from beginners. Many times the truth is not found in classic education, but the ability to look at things differently and honestly. It wasn't scientists that built the first airplane, it was bicycle builders. Look at Michael Faraday and all the things he invented, and he was uneducated. William Herschel was a musican, not an astronomer, yet he discovered 2 moons and a planet. And don't forget Gregor Mendel who is a religious uneducated monk, but the father of Genetics! Sooo....there were those around Mendel like you. THey didn't believe him either. He was nothing but an uneducated monk. Also like you, now they look stupid.

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#113656
Apr 8, 2013
 
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks, that is a compliment.
No it wasn't

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#113657
Apr 8, 2013
 
TheEvolutionDouche wrote:
The funniest thing about this whole thread is the fact that people who claim evolution is not real clearly knows nothing about it. Its not "we all came from monkeys." Actually evolution exists today. For example, there are cases in which humans are being born without wisdom teeth and overall, they are smaller than previous generations. Adaptation to your environment is all evolution really is. You keep things you need, develop aspects that are most beneficial to your survival, and lose things that hinders it.
My favorite argument is "God created humans and the Earth therefore evolution is not real." Well if he is truly the all mighty then why is the scientific fact of evolution out of the realm of his power?
Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean you have to fear and deny it.
What you are talking about in micro evolution. That isn't debated. It has been observed. Human from non-human evolution has never been documented observed in the history of the planet.

“What, me worry?”

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#113658
Apr 8, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
All who profess to be Christian are not. Hey, Southern Baptists support the Easter (Ishtar?) celebration don't they?
Easter has nothing to do with Ishtar. You don't even understand the history of Christian religious holidays, and their pagan roots.

Do you adhere to the Bible as the divinely inspired word of God and history of the world and believe Jesus of Nazareth to be the messiah? If so, you profess yourself to be Christian.

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#113659
Apr 8, 2013
 

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thewordofme wrote:
Do you really think a being that is intelligent enough to create the entire universe would be so arrogant and petty that He would have people suffer for ETERNITY if they won’t be his cheerleader?
http://www.irreligion.org/wp-content/uploads/...
Does this not give you a sense that this dogma is just made-up crap?
It sure does to me.
That is because you don't want to understand it. GOD doesn't send anyone to hell. He has done all he can possibly do to keep you from going to hell only stoping short of nulling your free will. It's as if Jesus is nailing signs on the gateway to hell saying, "Danger" "Do not Enter", turns to you and says, "You will enter hell over my dead body".....and people like you will step over his dead body and walk right in. You go to hell because you choose to. He made the way of escape, and you choose not to take it. I have no pity for you.

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#113660
Apr 8, 2013
 
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>THen why am I the only one in here applying the demands of the scientific method?
You haven't. You don't know neither what the scientific method is or what qualifies as scientific evidence.
<quoted text>HAHAHAHA>....then what are we doing?
Typical creatard quote mining, and you sunk yourself in the next quote. There is no debate among scientists.
<quoted text>That's pure BS. THere are many highly trained and qualified scientists that reject evolution.
No, there are a mere handful of highly trained qualified scientsts. In biology and geology, the two sciences mainly involved, it is a fraction of a percent. If you include dentists and other such "scientists" who are totally out of their field and therefore not qualified the number is still less than 10%.
<quoted text>Maybe you should, because no one is completely uneducated. I am a musician. I have played for 43 years. I can learn things from beginners. Many times the truth is not found in classic education, but the ability to look at things differently and honestly. It wasn't scientists that built the first airplane, it was bicycle builders. Look at Michael Faraday and all the things he invented, and he was uneducated. William Herschel was a musican, not an astronomer, yet he discovered 2 moons and a planet. And don't forget Gregor Mendel who is a religious uneducated monk, but the father of Genetics! Sooo....there were those around Mendel like you. THey didn't believe him either. He was nothing but an uneducated monk. Also like you, now they look stupid.
I don't have time to look into all of your scientists that you listed. But I did check the first one and found out that like most creatards you are not being entirely honest. Michael Faraday did not have the intensive training that modern day physicists have, but then his discoveries did not require intensive training either. Early on in a science, and this is true for any science, the basic discoveries that all later work relies on did not require intensive study. Those facts were there for anyone willing to do the work of experimentation that was required to find them.

So the fact that many pioneers did not have fancy degrees is not surprising. Could any of these scientists have discovered the Higg's Boson with their level of training? Not a chance.

It is too late for uneducated people to make paradigm changing discoveries. And especially too late for morons like you. Not that you are not bright enough, you might be. Your problem is that you have willingly blinded yourself to the scientific method and have chosen to believe a bunch of fairy tales by a bunch of bronze age sheep shaggers.

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#113661
Apr 8, 2013
 
I will make one admission. The line that there are 5 times as many holocaust deniers among historians as there are deniers of evolution among biologists is one that I got from a video and that I cannot substantiate myself.

In either case the number is so close to zero that the actual error bar is probably greater than the number itself. In both history and biology the number of deniers is a small fraction of a percent and it puts those people in the fringe. Which is of course where they belong.

“Universal Conscious Conscience”

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#113662
Apr 8, 2013
 
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
A. Water “is” beneficial to humans
Because they require it to live.
B. Water “is not” beneficial to humans
Because they require it to live.
PICK A OR B

Law of non-contradictions is flawless
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
A. Water “is not” beneficial to humans
When they drown.
B. Water “is” beneficial to humans when they drown.
Pick A or B

Once again the of non-contradiction is flawless!
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Your law of non-contradiction is nonsense.
Good try Mike, but on this one the way you stated how the law of non-contradiction works to try and disprove it was nonsense! Your way of thinking must be universal to every situation in DETAIL and you lacked the “in detail” and then applied the “law of non-contradiction” on the universal scale!

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

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#113663
Apr 8, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
I know, it appears that Infinite Force would more aptly be named Infinite Farce.
The man, and I assume it is a man, truly has psychological problems.
It's distressing to realize that this person can probably operate a motor vehicle. And vote.

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#113664
Apr 8, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
If you'll recall, I'm just following your lead,
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TFA...
Do you not believe yourself?
I'll admit my numbers were off. A column of water 30,000 feet in depth would result in almost 1,000 atmospheres of pressure, not 2,000. As for the rest, it does not require self-aggrandizement to deduce cause and effect.
Where are your numbers, KAB? On what do you base a claim that mountains suddenly rose by tens of thousands of feet? What mechanism(s) do you propose for hundreds of millions of cubic miles of water to upwell and precipitate over the entire planet?
On what evidence or observation do you base the argument that mountains were lower pre-flood and that "post-flood increased land peak elevations above sea level of many thousands of feet, and much greater average ocean depths?" Were apologists making any such claims before the heights of mountains were known?
KAB

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#113665
Apr 8, 2013
 

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MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Prove it, Mr Data.
It's based on the Bible record. Do you accept that as valid data? If so, I will present it.

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#113666
Apr 8, 2013
 
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>It's distressing to realize that this person can probably operate a motor vehicle. And vote.
No doubt a lane hog. 55 mph in the left lane with cars backed up a half mile, because 55 mph is the absolute value of the road sign and they CHOSE the left lane (A) to drive on. The concept of a variable speed transmission must seem utterly paradoxical...
...and applying the "Law of non-contradiction" to a politician's speech?
KAB

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#113667
Apr 8, 2013
 
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Easter has nothing to do with Ishtar. You don't even understand the history of Christian religious holidays, and their pagan roots.
Do you adhere to the Bible as the divinely inspired word of God and history of the world and believe Jesus of Nazareth to be the messiah? If so, you profess yourself to be Christian.
Yes I do, and you are correct, "adhere" being a critical qualifier in your characterization. Regarding words, explain how the name "Easter" derives from the Bible and adherence to it.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

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#113668
Apr 8, 2013
 

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marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>THen why am I the only one in here applying the demands of the scientific method?
You're not. You never have.

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#113669
Apr 8, 2013
 

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Infinite Force wrote:
<quoted text>
Nature is the evidence and the physical reality is explained with information we DISCOVER when learning about nature (physical reality). The physical reality (nature) demonstrates it does not contradict itself. If any information used to explain the physical reality we live in contradicts it’s self this is the violation of the law of non-contradiction found in nature!
1. Time “does” exist!
2. Time “did not” exist until physical universe was formed proposed by scientist violates the law of non-contradiction found in nature!
YOU CAN’T SAY TIME EXITS AND DOES NOT EXIST (OPPOSING TERMS) ON A UNIVERSAL SCALE AND CONCLUDE THAT BOTH OPPOSING ANSWERS IS RIGHT BECAUSE NATURE DOES NOT CONTRADICT ITS SELF AND SO MUST NOT THE INFORMATION WE USE IN NATURE TO EXPLAIN HOW IT WORKS!
<quoted text>
Because you and others try to disprove an absolute truth called the law of non-contradiction found in nature! YOU CAN’T DO THIS AND YOU ARE INSANE FOR TRYING! Absolute truths found in nature are dis-provable and un-falsifiable and since nature (absolute truth) is un-falsifiable your scientific method is dis-qualified when it comes to speaking about nature (an un-deniable absolute truth)!
If you can’t accept this YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE TALKING ABOUT NATURE/REALITY BECAUSE IT IS AN ABSOLUTE TRUTH YOU CANNOT DIS-PROVE OR FALSIFY!

It seems you have mistaken ideas about both science and philosophy.

Science can study anything in nature that is known to exist.

Nature itself cannot be falsified, but any theory about nature can be falsified.

Nothing is assumed true without evidence.

As to time there is disagreement as to when it began or even if it has meaning without the passage of events.

As to Absolute Truths, as I have already expressed, there are only 2.
1. Cogito ergo sum
2. 1st person reports.

We cannot know anything beyond those things for 100% absolute certain. That does not mean there are not absolute truths, only that we can never be certain of them beyond a point.

As to your notion of a "law of non-contradiction" I await further evidence of its existence and have already pointed out some contradictions in the "law of non-contradiction". If the viewpoint of one species is taken over another then you do not have a universal rule that can be applied uniformly.

Nothing is a "Law" unless it describes the relationship of variables in the manor that is intended. Your "Law" seems falsified by many things.


“Universal Conscious Conscience”

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#113670
Apr 8, 2013
 
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
"So if it “exists now” and you are saying it “didn’t exist” until the beginning of time this is a violation of the law of non-contradiction!"
YES! It “exist now” and it “didn’t exist” must be applied to TIME and must not violate the law of non-contradiction found in nature as an absolute truth! I think and speak in universal terms (absolute truths) and the way you people are defining time by the observation of nature is flawed! I discovered Time as an absolute truth (universal law) observed in nature which its self is an absolute truth and you and the rest of the people who think like you, including your flawed scientific method used to falsifiably validate the origin of species as a non-fixed biological reproductive species! Anyways, this conversation is about time so let’s keep it to what is time on a universal scale!

I know time is a universal concept which makes it ETERNAL (good bye to thinking time travel is possible) because time having no beginning or ending, what numbers are you going to put on the “date” to travel to when an absolute current date on the universal scale has no beginning or ending?!
Anyways, what is your universal definition for time?! Once again, you must think on the universal scale.
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
You are saying that information "existed" "before" time. No matter what box of Cracker Jacks you got that idea out of, you are not logical. Obviously you "discovered" the laws of classical thought (probably from an apologists blog) and it rocked your world. Tsk, tsk.
I ALWAYS thought like this naturally. I just discovered the tool to explain how I think from Aristotle called the law of non-contradiction! You can’t even speak about reality (absolute truths) because you reject it when I speak in absolute truths because you cherry pick to speak ONLY about the absolute truths you like and you reject the absolute truths you dis-like and this validates your way of thinking violates the law of non-contradiction!

A. Chromiuman either accepts absolute truths
B. Chromiuman either rejects absolute truths

The law of non-contradiction states if you reject one absolute truth then you must reject ALL absolute truths!

You pick both answers you’re only out for yourself or a group of people who think like you and their own self-centered, biased, want things ONLLY there ways and this is not a universal way of thinking. You are either for all or for yourself!!
MOTIVES DETETECTED BY APPLYING THE LAW OF NON-CONTRADICTION TO INDIVIDUAL THINKING!

I already know your answer but I want to check your integrity level.

Choose either A or B would you please above and let US see if you or out for the good of all or your own selfish, biased and prejudice desires! I AWAIT YOUR ANSWER! ABSOLUTE TRUTHS DON’T COMPROMISE WITH THOSE INDIVIDUALS WHO ACCEPTS SOME AND REJECTS OTHER! Because this is why we have people like YOUR-SELF with contradictory thoughts in their heads trying dis-proving absolute truths they dis-like!

OH, DID I TELL YOU I AM ABLE TO READ YOUR OWN MIND TO DETERMINE YOUR BEHAVIOR WITH WHAT YOU POST TO ME AND KNOW IF YOU ARE UP TO GOOD (ACCEPT ONLY ABSOLUTE TRUTHS) OR NO GOOD (REJECTING ABSOLUTE TRUTHS?! Chuckling!

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#113672
Apr 8, 2013
 
Infinite Force wrote:
<quoted text>
NO! You contradict yourself and your scientific method is dis-qualified when talking about absolute truth because this is what nature is!
Science studies nature. The scientific method is the process by which this study is undertaken. The scientific method is not disqualified from the study of nature.



Infinite Force wrote:
<quoted text> This is a silly/foolish statement because you can’t disprove nature existence because it is an absolute truth! YOU CAN’T DISPROVE ABSOLUTE TRUTHS SO STOP TRYING!
As your notion is disproven (at least in its current form) by the evidence it is, per se, NOT an absolute truth.



Infinite Force wrote:
<quoted text> THE LAW OF NON-CONTRADICTION IS A NON-FLAWED (FLAWLESS) SCIENTIFIC LAW FOUND ON AN UN-DENIABLE ABOLUTE TRUTH CALLED NATURE.
ON THE CONTRARY, YOUR FLAWED WAY OF THINKING HAS DESTINED YOU TO OBLIVION!
NATURE IS NOT FLAWED (CONTRADICT ITS SELF) YOUR THINKING IS!
Perhaps your reasoning leading up to this is not sound. It appears the contradiction is in your thinking and not in nature. Perhaps it would be possible to reformulate your idea to make it work.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

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#113673
Apr 8, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
It's based on the Bible record. Do you accept that as valid data? If so, I will present it.
The bible isn't data. Anecdotal at best.

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#113674
Apr 8, 2013
 

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KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
If you'll recall, I'm just following your lead,
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TFA...
Do you not believe yourself?

He gave you a break and you attempt to bite the hand that did so.
KAB

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#113675
Apr 8, 2013
 
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
He gave you a break and you attempt to bite the hand that did so.
Where is the break given here?,

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TFA...

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