It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the ...

It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

There are 142469 comments on the Asheville Citizen-Times story from Mar 15, 2009, titled It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate. In it, Asheville Citizen-Times reports that:

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Asheville Citizen-Times.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#113500 Apr 5, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you presenting that as an indication of continuous uninterrupted populous human occupation of the region from 6000 to 3000 years ago?

We have already provide substantial evidence of continuous uninterrupted populous human occupation of MANY regions from 6000 to 3000 years ago.

Are you lying again?

“All liars ... lie to protect themselves, to shield their egos from the raw pain of truth.”
- Aminatta Forna, The Memory of Love

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#113501 Apr 5, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
I hope as we proceed we can maintain and never lose sight of the truth and common ground embodied in this quote from your reference,
"nature clearly showed the way things were, so any discrepancy had to lie with one’s understanding of scripture."

This would be another lie. You want to avoid the fact that we have demonstrated inumerable times that your understanding of scripture does not match with the fossil, geological, historic, anthropological,..... record.

“You don’t have to feed the lie if you don’t want it to. If you make it credible it will become that, but only in your mind and only as disproportionate as you’ve decided it is. Truth has a way of being more persistent and if the two ever meet, truth will win.”
- Howard L. Salter

thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
Another place you may find interesting:
“In a striking blow against the simplified story of religion vs. geology, Montgomery describes the views of the early leaders of the Christian church. Major figures in Christian history—including Origen, Clement, Augustine, Jerome, and Thomas Aquinas—considered literal readings of Genesis to be a sign that one was uneducated.
Faced with evidence in nature that contradicted a certain reading of the Bible, all of them decided that the only sensible response was to adjust how they read the Bible. In their view, nature clearly showed the way things were, so any discrepancy had to lie with one’s understanding of scripture. It actually wasn't until the Protestant Reformation in the 1500's that literalism became prominent.”
http://arstechnica.com/science/2012/08/geolog ...

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#113502 Apr 5, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you not been present in the past when I have made it quite clear that I AM NOT A YEC!? Got it NOW?

At least YECs are honest and consistent. They only accept literalism from the bible, while you attempt to pick and choose what you want to be literal and what you want to be allegorical.

You are in no position to look down on YEC's.
KAB

United States

#113503 Apr 5, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello Mr. KAB, some more data for your consideration:
Where did the Flood water come from, and where did it go? Several people have proposed answers to these questions, but none which consider all the implications of their models. A few of the commonly cited models are addressed below.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark...
Questions are raised (incredulity) concerning the models, but I didn't see data being given confirming that each model could not be correct. I may have missed something. When I see you provide confirmation that there is data/references included I will respond further.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#113504 Apr 5, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't seem to be reading (or understanding?) all the articles you're providing. This article is making the point that the local flood which was involved wasn't such a catastrophic one after all, so it wouldn't explain why there is a global flood account.

It has been explained to Mr. Liar that:
1. Floods are ubiquitous throughout history and geography.

2. There is no single flood account.

3. The Noah flood was taken from earlier sources (word for word in places).

4. There is no evidence of a global flood at any time in global history.

5. There IS evidence that no global flood occurred in the past 10,000 years.

Since you have been exposed to this information and it has been confirmed by the evidence, then your repeating thinks that you know to be untrue makes you a liar, by definition.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#113505 Apr 5, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
This is certainly a voluminous, if not good, reference. When I see you provide a point from it, I will respond to it. There has already been some indication you may not be reading this stuff yourself, so for all we know it could be garbage. Since you're offering it, you should select the gems to which I will respond. I forewarn you that if you leave it to me and the first point I consider is bogus, I will look no further, and you will have lost an opportunity to possibly slam dunk me. It would behoove you to look for the flaws in their reasoning before providing a point to me since you know I will.

What I hear you saying is that you are a dishonest, disingenuous (in your claim about being persuaded by the evidence), pigheaded, lazy, bitchy, fundy, cultist. We already get that.

We have slammed down on you so often you have a flat head. But you are completely unwilling to use reason nor adhere to the evidence nor scientific method.

“A lie carries a weight that is exponentially higher than the truth. It’s weight will retard growth directly in proportion to the area lied.”
- Howard L. Salter
KAB

United States

#113506 Apr 5, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello Big Guy, how ya doing??
Perhaps you will find the data at the following link useful:
We do not see the name of Noah or of Adam in any of the ancient dynasties of Egypt; they are not to be found among the Babylonians and Sumerians. We cannot comprehend how the father of all nations has so long been unknown, not until the time when the Jewish books began to be known in Alexandria and were translated into Greek under one of the Ptolemies.
In the natural course of things Adam's name should have been carried from mouth to mouth to the farthest corners of the earth. I will venture to affirm that it has required a miracle thus to shut the eyes and ears of all nations - to destroy every monument, every memorial of their first father. What would the Roman philosopher and orator, Cicero, have thought, if a poor Jew, while selling him balm, had said, We are all descended from one father, named Adam.
Cicero would doubtless have inquired about the great monuments, the indisputable testimonies which Noah and his children had left of our common father. After your so-called Deluge, he would have said, the whole world would have resounded with the names of Adam and Noah, one the father, the other the restorer of every race.
These names would have been in every mouth as soon as men could speak, on every parchment as soon as they could write, on the door of every house as soon as they could build, on every temple, on every statue. You mean to tell us that you knew so great a secret, yet concealed it from us? Every people has attributed to itself some imaginary origin, yet none has approached the true one.- Voltaire, Philosophical Dictionary, entry under Adam.
--Wilfred A. Elders
http://www.chem.tufts.edu/science/franksteige...
Were you not aware that there are Noah's-flood-like accounts in cultures around the earth? Of course, Voltaire was not aware of that either. Had he been so he probably was astute enough to have recognized the significance of that based on what you quoted.
KAB

United States

#113507 Apr 5, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Pretty much the category in which I've placed you.
Please continue, and if possible, even increase your ignorance unless/until you change your mindset to objective.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#113508 Apr 5, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Questions are raised (incredulity) concerning the models, but I didn't see data being given confirming that each model could not be correct. I may have missed something. When I see you provide confirmation that there is data/references included I will respond further.

Cowardly avoidance.

You can't respond so you pretend it it the other persons fault.

Do they teach you these dishonest tactics in JW creotard school?

You do have to go to class several times a week, don't you? Or do you have some special exemption for your mental deficiencies?

You have grown even more fearful of having to defend your cult and yourself on these issues, I perceive. No problem. Maybe someday you will have a brave moment and will objectively examine your own beliefs.

I have demonstrated you personally to be a liar and I have demonstrated that lying is common among JW's and even implicated the cult itself of being in support of lying.

You also aren't supposed to talk to apostates. Do we qualify or do we have to join the cult and be disfellowshiped first to count?

BTW, I have posted many anti-JW web sites to you and you implied you read them. However JWs "(#47)are forbidden to read any anti-Jehovah's Witness material".

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#113509 Apr 5, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Were you not aware that there are Noah's-flood-like accounts in cultures around the earth? Of course, Voltaire was not aware of that either. Had he been so he probably was astute enough to have recognized the significance of that based on what you quoted.

This is false and indicates you have not check into this claim (or are just lying again). While there are many flood stories there are many cultures. How technically un-savvy of you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_myth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_my...

"The flood myth motif is widespread among many cultures as seen in the Mesopotamian flood stories, the Puranas, Deucalion in Greek mythology, the Genesis flood narrative, and in the lore of the K'iche' and Maya peoples of Central America, and the Muisca people in South America."

The Romans, Egyptians, Native N. Americans, asians, europeans,..... have no flood myths.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#113510 Apr 5, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Please continue, and if possible, even increase your ignorance unless/until you change your mindset to objective.

Please continue, and if possible, even increase your ignorance unless/until you change your mindset to objective.
KAB

United States

#113511 Apr 5, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
At least you seem to be agreeing with the fact that the YEC position is untenable.
But even without that the idea of a global flood is ridiculous.
The problem for you is that there is no evidence for a worldwide flood. A worldwide flood would have left evidence. So in this case no evidence for the flood IS evidence against the flood. That is not always the case. Lack of evidence for something is not necessarily evidence against something. Not so here.
Since we have evidence of smaller older local floods we know that Noah's Flood would have overwritten those events, at least in some places. Nowhere on the face of the Earth do we find evidence for this.
There is also no record of the Flood in the genome of animals. Again, there is evidence of various different population bottlenecks in some, and definitely not all species, that go s far back as 100,000 years. They are all at different times. And none of them are anywhere near as severe of a bottleneck as we would have with the Flood.
If the Flood were real we would have had an extinction event that would make the one at the end of the Cretaceous look like a sneeze in comparison.
One more time, it is your claim, it is up to you to find evidence for it. Until you do it is busted.
Do you think that nowhere on Earth is there evidence of a flood overlaying evidence of an earlier flood? I suspect Egyptians could help you dispell such a notion.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#113512 Apr 5, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Were you not aware that there are
Insert:
Noah's-flood-like
Bigfoot
UFOs
Aliens
Dragons and sea serpents
Flying people
Talking animals
KAB wrote:
<quoted text> accounts in cultures around the earth?
KAB

United States

#113513 Apr 5, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no "global flood account". Many different societies have flood myths. They all do vary a bit. They do tend to follow the same rough plot since it is such a limited one set up by the circumstances involved.
How objective/scientific is it to tag an account as myth without confirming it to be such?
KAB

United States

#113514 Apr 5, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
My data is from wikipedia. YOUR site, is rather general AND it explains why the mountains are not a million feet high.
Who should we believe, given your multiple regular confirmed instances of error? See the problems you create for yourself when you don't bother with data, but act as if you do? People will not be inclined to believe your assertions and will gradually come to ignore you.
Very foolish of you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geology_of_the_H...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himalayas#Geolog...
“Hypocrites get offended by the truth.”
&#8213; Jess C. Scott, Bad Romance: Seven Deadly Sins Anthology
I see you don't trust government agencies. I can understand that, but it is unwise to categorically dismiss such on that basis alone?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#113515 Apr 5, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Please continue, and if possible, even increase your ignorance unless/until you change your mindset to objective.
Change *MY* mindset to objective? Are you freaking kidding me? You are one the least objective posters on Topix. See Dogen's comments above on your honesty/objectivity.
KAB

United States

#113516 Apr 5, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting assertion.
Any evidence?
Has it been since the last blue moon?
Just for you, I wouldn't bother providing the confirming data. Remember I told you so.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#113517 Apr 5, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you think that nowhere on Earth is there evidence of a flood overlaying evidence of an earlier flood? I suspect Egyptians could help you dispell such a notion.
Oh! Now the Egyptians are all of a sudden a demonstrated reliable source of information. Jackass.

Level 4

Since: Apr 12

Lansdale, PA

#113518 Apr 5, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
How objective/scientific is it to tag an account as myth without confirming it to be such?
How objective/scientific is it to tag an account as truth without confirming it to be such?
KAB

United States

#113519 Apr 5, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
This is false and indicates you have not check into this claim (or are just lying again). While there are many flood stories there are many cultures. How technically un-savvy of you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_myth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_my...
"The flood myth motif is widespread among many cultures as seen in the Mesopotamian flood stories, the Puranas, Deucalion in Greek mythology, the Genesis flood narrative, and in the lore of the K'iche' and Maya peoples of Central America, and the Muisca people in South America."
The Romans, Egyptians, Native N. Americans, asians, europeans,..... have no flood myths.
Perhaps the Romans, Egyptians, Native N. Americans, asians, europeans,..... didn't get the memo requiring that they have a flood myth.

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