It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

Full story: Asheville Citizen-Times

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...

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#113315
Apr 3, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I actually missed a couple of your posts and should have corrected that.
Sadly this site offers no "edit" function.
The actual post I was referring to is the last one on the previous page.
Don't you think an apology for calling me a liar would be nice? Listen, you and I don't have to agree, just because you believe something does not make you a liar. I believe the bible is true, you do not, but because I do doesn't make me a liar.
I can be completely wrong, and you completely right, but that still doesn't make me a liar. We need to understand that and I apologise for making the same mistake.

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#113316
Apr 3, 2013
 

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Subduction Zone wrote:
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I am too tired of lying creatards rejecting undeniable scientific evidence.
Listen, just because you believe it, doesn't mean it is undeniable science. If it was undeniable, why can't you guys ever address my challenges? No one has ever observed the evolution of the 2 genders, no one has ever observed the origin of life, no one has ever observed a non-human evolving into a human, in fact, not a soul in here has ever been able to even describe what evolved to make a non-human a human. Punctuated equalibria has never been observed to be true, which all it ever was was a fantasy attempt to explain the evidence found in the Cambrian Explosion......so listen.....people that are asking these questions are the ones with the critical thinking skills. Not the ones who will believe any unobservable thing as long as it supports their philosophy. So you can label it "undeniable science" all day, but until you can answer everyone of these challenges with an observation, your science is far from undeniable.
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
That is why no creatard can demand evidence from me until they prove that they understand what is and what is not scientific evidence. And I am even willing to help them learn what the qualifications for scientific evidence are. In other words I am willing to help the people that I am arguing against argue better against me and other evolutionists.
Listen, in all honesty, you can't teach me anything about this debate, I've been debating it, publicly speaking on it, and continuously studying it for almost 20 years now. So with all due respect, I will wait on you to address the above challenges with observations, and if you do, then I will say you have taught me something.

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#113317
Apr 3, 2013
 

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Subduction Zone wrote:
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Why do creationists think that it is okay to lie for Jesus?
You'll have to give me an example, and when you do, let me ask why is it ok to be dishonest in debates and never answer a single challenge? You do know that this group, nor the debate between evolutionists and creationists would exist if you guys would just be honest enough to admit to the obvious. That you take human from non-human evolution in faith. Everyone knows that's that is the case, but you guys just can't be honest enough to admit it.

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#113318
Apr 3, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
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Thank you for your glimmer of objectivity. I think Adam was created from the elements of Earth, complete with better mental ability than either you or I have. Hey, he was a direct product of God (Deuteronomy 32:4) and need not even have died (Genesis 2:17).
Well, I think the story of Original Sin is an allegory about humans coming to understand their mortal nature and the consequences of their actions. We see glimmers of this in elephants, great apes, and dolphins, but the real understanding belongs to us alone.

I know that even apes display the rudiments of morality. As with most things we thought were unique and separate to humans, we see many of the basics in our primate cousins. The leap is in the ability to think rationally and abstractly at a far more complex level, thanks to a fore-brain that gradually tripled in size over the last 2 million years.

What I am adamant about is that you as a Christian have to reconcile your core beliefs with modern science, not try to ignore science or hope it will be overturned to sustain your beliefs. As far as I can tell, your only core belief is that you must seek forgiveness for your sins and repent of them. The rest is window dressing. It really does not matter whether Adam was formed from a lump of clay on a pottery wheel or whether Adamic consciousness of good and evil emerged in a clever ape-man (whose father was an ape-man too).

Obsession with non-core details that stem from an unreliable book, leading to continual denials of well established science, is why I regard fundamentalists as idolaters (of a book) rather than lovers of God or truth.

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#113319
Apr 3, 2013
 
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>
<chimney>
I will save you the trouble.
It was me, and I said, we (and all animals) share a common ancestor with tobacco (and all plants), not that we are descended from tobacco.
Man, are you really still too stupid to understand that "share a common ancestor WITH" and "descended FROM" are VERY different things?

You share a common ancestor with your cousin. But your cousin is NOT your grandfather. Got it? YET??? Will you EVER?

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#113320
Apr 3, 2013
 
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>It is only intermediate if you have already preconcluded that evolution must be true.
Nope. That would be a "transitional", the conclusion that a particular fossil is THE species that another came from.

An intermediate is simply an objectively measurable, replicatable fact. Just as 2 inches is intermediate between 1 inch and 3 inches, a cranial volume of 800cc is intermediate between 400cc and 1300cc.

No interpretation. Just measurement.

The interpretation that some of the OBJECTIVELY INTERMEDIATE fossils with measurements between ape and human are evidence for evolution is that they are what we would expect to find if evolution is true. Evolution predicted them, and explains them.

Creationism did not expect them and cannot explain them. Which is why you run around with your panties in a knot with silly attempts like "maybe they were infant skulls" "maybe they were congenital defects" etc. Its funny to watch as you parrot every long-since eliminated alternative in your desperate attempt to run from the explanation that is right in front of your face.
How many times do I have to say it? When your pet theory is unobservable you can twist it to be what ever you need it to be.
No, you cannot. A theory makes predictions.

You hilariously get the scientific method wrong every time. But what can I expect from someone who still cannot grasp the difference between "common ancestor with" and "descended from"?

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#113321
Apr 3, 2013
 
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>Don't you think an apology for calling me a liar would be nice? Listen, you and I don't have to agree, just because you believe something does not make you a liar. I believe the bible is true, you do not, but because I do doesn't make me a liar.
I can be completely wrong, and you completely right, but that still doesn't make me a liar. We need to understand that and I apologise for making the same mistake.
Perhaps when you stop lying, you will not be called a liar.

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#113322
Apr 3, 2013
 
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>I. The scientific method has four steps
1. Observation and description of a phenomenon or group of phenomena.
2. Formulation of an hypothesis to explain the phenomena. In physics, the hypothesis often takes the form of a causal mechanism or a mathematical relation.
3. Use of the hypothesis to predict the existence of other phenomena, or to predict quantitatively the results of new observations.
4. Performance of experimental tests of the predictions by several independent experimenters and properly performed experiments.
http://teacher.nsrl.rochester.edu/phy_labs/ap...
1. We observe mass extinctions yet the number of types of organisms increases and becomes more elaborate over generations.

2. Hypothesis: things evolve somehow.

3. Looking at the DNA we see lineages of various species and the fossil record shows a clear progression, thus each generation will differ from the previous in some way.

4. So we take things that reproduce rapidly, alter their environment, expect there to be differences ... there are every single time.

Tada, thank you for proving things evolve.

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#113323
Apr 3, 2013
 
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>Funny, I noticed you completely failed to address a single point I made in the post you are replying too. THat's fine, because we both know you have no answers, so you do the only thing a person with no integrity can do, insult.
And you still fail to address the 1.10 > 1.1 issue.

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#113324
Apr 3, 2013
 
[QUOTE who="marksman11Listen, in all honesty, you can't teach me anything about this debate, I've been debating it, publicly speaking on it, and continuously studying it for almost 20 years now.[/QUOTE]

Yep. And not once have you ever admitted error, even when it's been demonstrated to you. Because you're always right about absolutely everything, it is we who must be wrong.

Tell us again how 1.10 > 1.1 and which mathematician(s) you consulted regarding this. That Nobel Prize in mathematics is pretty sweet, ain't it? I mean, you did go to Oslo and get your prize, right? Seems it would be a shame to give it up. Ah, but you don't do it for the prize...it's just part of being right about everything all the time. Good for you for staying humble.

20 years of making sure you learned absolutely nothing. You're a real champ.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

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#113325
Apr 3, 2013
 
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>Oh yeah, It was claimed about 3 years ago. And even worse, you guys claimed we are kin to "Nanners"!!! Don't believe me?
#5263
May 21, 2009
marksman11 wrote:
Careful Pakman, they will tell you we are related to the banana. I'm being serious. I've been told that in other forums over the years.
==========
Both humans and bananas are eukaryotes. Our common ancestor was a eukaryote. It's just eukaryotes evolving into eukaryotes. All the same kind. That's microevolution, right?
==========
SEE! I told you!
post #5263
This is your team, not mine!!!!
Dipshit! RELATED not evolved from. Is there anything you cannot misunderstand?

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#113326
Apr 3, 2013
 
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>Don't you think an apology for calling me a liar would be nice? Listen, you and I don't have to agree, just because you believe something does not make you a liar. I believe the bible is true, you do not, but because I do doesn't make me a liar.
I can be completely wrong, and you completely right, but that still doesn't make me a liar. We need to understand that and I apologise for making the same mistake.
Were you completely wrong about 1.10 > 1.1?

See, no matter how ridiculously wrong you are about something, the one thing you won't do is admit it, because you weave everything into everything else, such that any error anywhere results in error everywhere.

You can't even say "you know, I goofed with that whole 1.10 > 1.1 thing. I was never very good at math, and that was my bad. I was wrong." Why? Because your Bible code prophesy math trick depends upon your silly math error. And, because you made your bad math part of the justification for your belief in the Bible, it would mean you'd have to admit that you were wrong for believing for that reason.

If you were wrong for believing for that reason, that opens the door for other reasons being bad reasons for belief, and that threatens your entire justification for belief in the first place. And, if there's one thing you're afraid of more than anything else, it's not having a reason to believe the Bible, because the social pressures related to Bible belief are so great for you that to shake your faith to any degree could cost you friends, family (what's left of it), your position as a member in your church community, the trust of your fellow congregants, and even business.

So, when it comes to learning, that has to take a back seat to believing everything in the Bible. And, when it comes to acknowledging your own errors, that simply cannot occur.

And that's an incredibly sad life.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

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#113327
Apr 3, 2013
 
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>Funny, I noticed you completely failed to address a single point I made in the post you are replying too. THat's fine, because we both know you have no answers, so you do the only thing a person with no integrity can do, insult.
There is nothing in your post that hasn't been refuted over and over again. You can start lecturing on integrity when you stop lying.

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#113328
Apr 3, 2013
 
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>Don't you think an apology for calling me a liar would be nice? Listen, you and I don't have to agree, just because you believe something does not make you a liar. I believe the bible is true, you do not, but because I do doesn't make me a liar.
I can be completely wrong, and you completely right, but that still doesn't make me a liar. We need to understand that and I apologise for making the same mistake.
How many times have we told you that we never said we were descended from tobacco, but that we shared a common ancestor with tobacco, in the same way that you are not descended from your cousin (nor your cousin from you), but you and your cousin share a common ancestor? Maybe it's the whole inbreeding thing that messes you up. Ok, pretend you were from a family whose members all have 23 chromosomes and whose family tree isn't a wreath...

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#113329
Apr 3, 2013
 
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>Already disproven. I'm not going through 5000 pages of posts to expose your didhonesty, but I've already posted where your team said we were related to "Bananas".....also Mike, are you saying we ARE NOT evolutionary tied to tobacco plants? I bet you can't answer, or won't answer that question. I dare you to answer it with a "Yes" we are evolutionary related to tobacco plants, or "NO" we are not evolutionaryly related to tobacco plants. Wanna take a ride?
You said "EVOLVED FROM", liar. Then you changed it to "related" which is correct.*IF* you were honest (which you are not) you would admit you mistake but NO! Marky is never wrong. Not about gravity, not about electrons, no about penguins, not about math. Putz.

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#113330
Apr 3, 2013
 
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>GOD never gave us the ten commandments expecting us to have the ability to keep them. All GOD was saying is here are my requirements, AND YOU CAN'T DO THEM, but I'm going to send someone who can, and he did. So yeah, there is no way I can keep the ten commandments, but hold your arrogance because you can't either. There is only one sin difference between the person in heaven and the person in hell, Jesus died for all the rest. I have taken care of that one sin when I accepted Jesus. According to your own words, you haven't. Sooo....forgive me for laughing at your vain attempt to judge me. You are not my judge.
<quoted text>No you didn't, not even close. You just proved above that you aren't worthy to judge other people.
&#9668; Matthew 7:3 &#9658;
New International Version (2011)
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
Blah, blah, blah.

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#113331
Apr 3, 2013
 
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>Listen, just because you believe it, doesn't mean it is undeniable science. If it was undeniable, why can't you guys ever address my challenges? No one has ever observed the evolution of the 2 genders, no one has ever observed the origin of life, no one has ever observed a non-human evolving into a human, in fact, not a soul in here has ever been able to even describe what evolved to make a non-human a human. Punctuated equalibria has never been observed to be true, which all it ever was was a fantasy attempt to explain the evidence found in the Cambrian Explosion......so listen.....people that are asking these questions are the ones with the critical thinking skills. Not the ones who will believe any unobservable thing as long as it supports their philosophy. So you can label it "undeniable science" all day, but until you can answer everyone of these challenges with an observation, your science is far from undeniable.<quoted text>Listen, in all honesty, you can't teach me anything about this debate, I've been debating it, publicly speaking on it, and continuously studying it for almost 20 years now. So with all due respect, I will wait on you to address the above challenges with observations, and if you do, then I will say you have taught me something.
So, your argument is, "if you weren't there to directly observe it, there's no scientific means of explaining it, therefore it's perfectly reasonable to invoke magic as the best explanation." Yeah, we stopped using superstition as an explanation for natural phenomena long ago. Your insistence upon using it merely demonstrates how poorly educated you are, and how strong the social pressure involved with religion is. It's an insidious thing, religion, that it would serve as a hindrance to you being an informed and intellectually mature adult. It's never too late to escape the island of the lotus eaters, but you have to choose to do so.

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#113332
Apr 3, 2013
 
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>Well, for the millionth time.....SHOW ME!!! Why do you continue to make these wild claims that you, and I, and everyone else knows you can't support? It is really unimpressive.
What's with the avatar, Marky? Trying to look all bad ass again? What a joke.

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#113333
Apr 3, 2013
 
marksman11 wrote:
How many times do I have to say it? When your pet theory is unobservable you can twist it to be what ever you need it to be.
You're still demanding that we observe theories.

Theories are ideas.

You can't SEE an idea.

They only exist in the brain as electrochemical patterns.

When you can observe "delicious," then we'll talk about observing theories.

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#113334
Apr 3, 2013
 
marksman11 wrote:
And example.....GOD created dogs.....and later on wolves evolved.
One more thing to add to the "Incredibly Stupid Things Marky Has Said" list.

Wolves evolved from dogs! Too freaking funny. What an ass.

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