It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the ...

It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

There are 165438 comments on the Asheville Citizen-Times story from Mar 15, 2009, titled It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate. In it, Asheville Citizen-Times reports that:

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Asheville Citizen-Times.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#112963 Mar 27, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>By the way, if you think Adam and Eve are silly, at least we don't believe that we are kin to tobacco stalks, worms, birds, and beagles. I'm being serious here. That is the very reason I outright reject human from non-human evolution. To think that we evolved from what was once a tobacco stalk is beyond stupid. AND YEAH!!! THAT REALLY PASSES THE SCIENTIFIC METHODS DEMAND FOR OBSERVATION!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! !!!!!
According to you, you aren't related to your great-great-great-great grandfather, because nobody observed you being born along with every other generation leading back to your great-great-great-great grandfather's child(ren) being born. You can't just believe the word of man and those unreliable birth certificates. Hell, even Obama has a birth certificate! No, we need direct observation of everything. Therefore, you have nothing to demonstrate that you and your great-great-great-great grandfather are relatives.

Your stupid logic at work.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#112964 Mar 27, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
My letter that started this thread was published over 4 years ago this month. In 4 years you have not come one step closer to disproving GOD, proving human from non-human evolution, completely failing at showing how human from non-human evolution is observable,testable, nor replicatable, no scientific evidence for the origin of life, failing to show a violation of the LAW of Biogenesis, proved you wrong in that the origin of life does involve evolution, I've continually asked for what changed or evolved that made a non-human into a human, and that has never been answered, continually asked how it is possible that the two genders could possibly evolve at the same time with working plumbing in order to have the ability to procreate......all I got was "crickets".....conti nually asked for evidence that is observable proving that punctuated equalibria was not a wild guess, in which each of you failed....and I continually have explained to you how any and every evidence you falsely claim supports human from non-human evolution does so because when your "belief" isn't observable you can make it into anything you want it to be...., and I have also tolerated the ignorance of your demands for scientific evidence of creation as if there should be scientific evidence for the supernatural, the validity of my faith based beliefs have nothing to do with the silliness and invalidity of your "so called" scientific beliefs and world view which terribly fail the scientific method, and have continually shown where your views are not science but an atheistic philosophy......In short, you've got your butt kicked for 4 years, and just so you'll know?....I AIN'T LET'IN UP!!!!!!!!
http://kylinuntitled.com/wp-content/uploads/2...

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#112965 Mar 27, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>I want you to disprove GOD!!...then after you fail to do that, I want you to prove it is an impossibility for the flood to happen if GOD exists. THe point beings, you don't understand that GOD can trump you any time he wants too. If he wills a global flood, there will be a global flood, and there is nothing you can do about but bitch about it, and deny that it occurred. Which is exactly what you are doing. You automatically assume GOD doesn't exist, but it is an assumption you can't make. Much like you faith based human from non-human evolutionary beliefs. You interpret the evidence after you already assume evolution to be true!!<quoted text>Get it right. I never said that the only proof is my faith. That is why you are not qualified to interpret anything. Your preconceived biases always warp your conclusions. I accept the existence of GOD on faith because science is not qualified to deal with the supernatural, thus asking for scientific proof of GOD is an ignorant request and an oxymoron. I accept the existence of GOD in faith just like I accept the existence of love in faith. I believe in GOD in faith but it is far from light years from blind faith.<quoted text>All I've ever asked is show me where it has been observed, and you can't. Sorry, but my BS detector exposed the rest almost 4 years ago. Come with the observation, or stay under the porch where you belong.
Your BS detector is in a constant state of alarm because you are holding it. It's circuits are performing fine - you just don't realize what it's telling you.
"I want... I want..." Are you a two year old? What you WANT is for your mysticism to be substantiated. You KNOW that it can't be, and describe that as an ignorant failure of science? Your argument is IDENTICAL to that of a parlor room spiritualist's.
You told me to prove my statement - that the Bible contains both valid historical references and also mythical legends. Those things are self evident. Now you say "I want you to disprove God." Shall I disprove Shiva, Nirvana and Kokopelli, too? Not at all the same, is it? Yes, it's exactly the same. YOU are the one that claims the Bible is the pure word of the one and only Alpha and Omega supernatural deity, then you place yourself as your own arbitrary judge of what evidence (or LACK OF, rather) is acceptable. That is the only foundation you have for a solid footing - a rock balanced on a stone settling into the surf.
"I accept the existence of GOD on faith because science is not qualified to deal with the supernatural." You BASK in blind faith.
Science IS qualified to investigate the ToE - and yet you are dismissive of that FACT based entirely and explicitly on your FEELINGS. Tsk, tsk, Marky Boy. Mind your 9th commandment.
Do you claim (as others do) that love is a manifestation of God? Pets demonstrate love, there are species of animals that mate for life and some species tend their offspring while others do not. Observable, testable, repeatable.
NO species besides man prostrates themselves before statues and books. Science finds no intrinsic and pervasive telltales of Yahweh because Yahweh is a human invention.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#112966 Mar 27, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>You should because all I'm demanding is that you adhere to the scientific method, and you aren't even close!!! That is why you can morph your stupid psuedo scientific fantasy to fit what ever scenario you need it to fit into today. It isn't observable, testable, or replicatable, so just let your fantasies run wild. Observation be damned!!
You are making up what the scientific method requires, and you expect anything except what you approve of to stand up to it? Worst, most of what you approve of doesn't even fulfill your made up requirements.
KAB

United States

#112967 Mar 27, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
What do you suppose my reasoning to be?
I don't have to suppose because here is your reasoning (in quotes)with analysis following,

"If you didn't believe what the Watchtower said before it was corrected by them, you are saying you knew better than they regarding the Bible. Why, then, do you bother with them at all? You're clearly a greater Biblical authority than they are, so you needn't pay attention to them. If anything, they should be seeking YOUR guidance. Why aren't YOU the leader of your own sect of Christianity, rather than being a member of a group whose interpretations of the Bible are, by your own admission, incorrect while your own are not?"

Single points were under consideration, so my statement regarding such a single point asserts nothing about my knowing "better than they regarding the Bible" in general. Everyone's total fund of knowledge differs, therefore, any individual may have the best knowledge of a specific point but, in the limit, perhaps not any other point. Others may have better knowledge of all those other points (Prov. 11:14).

Your above error is corollary to your false dichotomy syndrome. Doc might understand such relationships, and be able to assist you to break the mold, but I seriously doubt it.
LowellGuy

United States

#112968 Mar 27, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't have to suppose because here is your reasoning (in quotes)with analysis following,
"If you didn't believe what the Watchtower said before it was corrected by them, you are saying you knew better than they regarding the Bible. Why, then, do you bother with them at all? You're clearly a greater Biblical authority than they are, so you needn't pay attention to them. If anything, they should be seeking YOUR guidance. Why aren't YOU the leader of your own sect of Christianity, rather than being a member of a group whose interpretations of the Bible are, by your own admission, incorrect while your own are not?"
Single points were under consideration, so my statement regarding such a single point asserts nothing about my knowing "better than they regarding the Bible" in general. Everyone's total fund of knowledge differs, therefore, any individual may have the best knowledge of a specific point but, in the limit, perhaps not any other point. Others may have better knowledge of all those other points (Prov. 11:14).
Your above error is corollary to your false dichotomy syndrome. Doc might understand such relationships, and be able to assist you to break the mold, but I seriously doubt it.
So, you aren't necessarily more knowledgeable than the Watchtower folks just because you know some things they don't, but you say your God is more knowledgeable than you are because he, supposing he exists in the first place, knows more about something than you do.

Remember when I said logic is not your friend? There it is.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#112969 Mar 27, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>I have never been shown observable evidence that you evolved from a tobacco stalk, and you can't do it either, and yhus your claim and dodge. You've again been asked to provide evidence for one of your claims that you can't provide, which is absolutely nothing new!!!!
You lying sack of shit! No one claimed you evolved from a tobacco stalk. We can show that you are related to a tobacco stalk.

You probably have a cousin. You are related to your cousin but you are not descen.... Whoops. Excuse me, for you this may not be a good analogy. I may think of another later on.
<quoted text> Please don't bring a topic you know absolutely nothing about. Christianity has one rule, accept Jesus, you can cram the rest!!!
Not according to Jesus. You need to read your Bible more.
<quoted text>I challenge you to present one lie I've told. Now, with that said, why do you lie that your philosophy is based in science when you know it can't be observed which is not part of the scientific method?
Easy, you started out the post I am quoting with a lie. If you cannot see that then you are both delusional and a liar.
<quoted text>It couldn't if it wanted too. All science can do is measure and test things found within nature. There are many things science is unqualified to deal with, and with that said, and admitting science can not deal with the supernatural, how smart is it of you to ask for scientific evidence for GOD? That is kindda stupid!!!
I am not asking for scientific evidence for god. I am pointing out that if god did some of the things you claim that he did there would be evidence that supports you. There isn't. There is no evidence of a flood. There is no evidence of even one massive population bottleneck let alone two.
<quoted text>DUH!!!! See what a stupid statement? Why do you even make such a dumb statement as if you expect there should be??
Once again not a dumb statement. Many of the claims of people who believe in the supernatural would leave evidence behind. You may not ever know how the supernatural works, you can see its evidence if it ever happens.
<quoted text>Well, you better get started because you've posted nothing observable so far!!!!<quoted text>I'd make sure it passed the scientific method for valid science, and I'd research it myself. What would you do if suddenly you realised your worldview was flawed because for the first time you realised that what you thought were valid reasons for your beliefs, were not valid?
Once again we have posted valid evidence. Once a creatard rejects undeniable evidence then no more needs to be given to said creatard.

Try to be honest and you will get better answers.

Keep lying and we will treat you like the douchebag that you are.

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#112970 Mar 27, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>Prove it. Bet you can't. And forgive me for rejecting such scientific authorities as the stupid huffington post.

I'll take Archie and Jugghead, double digest, over your science cred, man.

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#112971 Mar 27, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>Why are you posting such stupid and ill informed links? As if the bible doesn't say thqat GOD killed everyone on the earth but Noahs family? We teach it to our kids at church when we go that route, and we explain why GOD did it, and I don't blame him. No wonder your ignorance abounds with the BS you read and post!!! Hate to be you!!!

Never happened.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#112972 Mar 27, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>I have a challenge for you. Go back a few thousand years, then take any date you want before then and disprove it as the age of the earth. Any date you want. 4 million years...to 50 gazillian years.....and provide observable evidence that it isn't the age of the earth. THe reason the pyramid is relevant is because it is observable, and someday we may find out who built it, but take the age of the earth, and no matter how far back you go, no one can disprove it!!! It's just a claim that no one has ever observed. It's an unprovable claim. Like I said, I guess you know what's going on 200,000 light years away!!<quoted text>Show me where I said it wasn't a billion years old. I bet you can't. Unlike you, I will admit that I have no idea the age of the earth. Do you realise you are calling me dishonest while making claims that are not true about me, and that you can't support? I challenge you to support your claim that I said the earth was not a billion years old!!!It may or may not be that old, I don't know, but I do know that I never made a claim either way!!! YOUR MOVE....and let me add, you're not doing very well.
The first part of this post is undecipherable nonsense.

In the latter it seems that Marky is denying being a YEC.

If that is the case I do apologize for assuming you are a YEC. I came to that conclusion since you seem to have some trouble believing the dating of fossils etc.. And if you do deny the dating of fossils you are probably still a YEC. Admitting that the Earth is old but not the fossils is a position that is supported by nothing and no one.

Of course OEC's have terrible trouble with the facts too. They still tend to believe the Noah's Ark myth.

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#112973 Mar 27, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
My letter that started this thread was published over 4 years ago this month. In 4 years you have not come one step closer to disproving GOD, proving human from non-human evolution, completely failing at showing how human from non-human evolution is observable,testable, nor replicatable, no scientific evidence for the origin of life, failing to show a violation of the LAW of Biogenesis, proved you wrong in that the origin of life does involve evolution, I've continually asked for what changed or evolved that made a non-human into a human, and that has never been answered, continually asked how it is possible that the two genders could possibly evolve at the same time with working plumbing in order to have the ability to procreate......all I got was "crickets".....conti nually asked for evidence that is observable proving that punctuated equalibria was not a wild guess, in which each of you failed....and I continually have explained to you how any and every evidence you falsely claim supports human from non-human evolution does so because when your "belief" isn't observable you can make it into anything you want it to be...., and I have also tolerated the ignorance of your demands for scientific evidence of creation as if there should be scientific evidence for the supernatural, the validity of my faith based beliefs have nothing to do with the silliness and invalidity of your "so called" scientific beliefs and world view which terribly fail the scientific method, and have continually shown where your views are not science but an atheistic philosophy......In short, you've got your butt kicked for 4 years, and just so you'll know?....I AIN'T LET'IN UP!!!!!!!!

Previously refuted.

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#112974 Mar 27, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>Well, I'd certainly like to see your observable evidence that you are kin to a tabacco stalk!!!! PLEZZZZZ TRY!!!!!<quoted text>That is because I am smarter and more honest than you are. I don't claim my beliefs are scientific while knowing that science is unqualified to deal with the supernatural, unlike you who falsely makes scientific claims you can't back up with observable evidence.<quoted text>Couldn't care less. I celebrate the resurrection of Jesus on the Feast of First Fruits.

Why don't you just program a bot to repost your old posts at intervals? At least we would know not to go looking through your posts for something we have not refuted.

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#112975 Mar 27, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>You KNOW nothing of the sort!!!


thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
No, we are kin with Neanderthals and Homo-heidelbergensis, Homo-habilis and other pre-humans in our past. We KNOW this to be true. And we All carry some small percentage of neanderthal genes/blood.


We certainly do know this. I would post references but you are not interested in learning science.

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#112976 Mar 27, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>The bible doesn't give the date.<quoted text>You KNOW nothing of the sort. You guys kill me infering you could possibly know anything about what happened a billion years ago. You don't even know who built the great pyramid a few thousand years ago. Come on.....one more ok?.......tell us what is going on in a galaxy 200 million lightyears away........PLEZZZZZZZ!!!!!! Don't worry, we won't even demand that it be observable because we know your reply will be BS anyway!!!!!

Oh, here comes markies occult leanings again.

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#112977 Mar 27, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>I have never been shown observable evidence that you evolved from a tobacco stalk, and you can't do it either, and yhus your claim and dodge.

This is a lie. No one ever said we evolved from a tobacco stalk. You are deliberately misrepresenting what has been said. You lie in EVERY post.
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text> I challenge you to present one lie I've told.

You just stated that we claimed people evolved from tobacco stalks. That has never been claimed. That makes you a liar

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#112978 Mar 27, 2013
**********
Marksman Challenge
**********

I bet I can find a lie in EVERY post of marksmans that meets 2 criteria.
1. is on topic (not about music or something)
2. Is at least 3 sentences long.

I will begin now.


“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#112979 Mar 27, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>I have a challenge for you. Go back a few thousand years, then take any date you want before then and disprove it as the age of the earth. Any date you want. 4 million years...to 50 gazillian years.....and provide observable evidence that it isn't the age of the earth. THe reason the pyramid is relevant is because it is observable, and someday we may find out who built it, but take the age of the earth, and no matter how far back you go, no one can disprove it!!! It's just a claim that no one has ever observed. It's an unprovable claim. Like I said, I guess you know what's going on 200,000 light years away!!<quoted text>Show me where I said it wasn't a billion years old. I bet you can't. Unlike you, I will admit that I have no idea the age of the earth. Do you realise you are calling me dishonest while making claims that are not true about me, and that you can't support? I challenge you to support your claim that I said the earth was not a billion years old!!!It may or may not be that old, I don't know, but I do know that I never made a claim either way!!! YOUR MOVE....and let me add, you're not doing very well.

We know the age of the earth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_Earth
The evidence is observable as per the scientific method.

Only one time period comes up in all tests; 4.6 billion year.
(that is lie #1)

We know what is going on billions of light years away.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_super...

Supernova are observable across the known universe.
Here is one from 10 billion years ago.
http://newscenter.lbl.gov/news-releases/2013/...
(that is lie #2).

Our scorecard:
Marksman is a liar: 1
Marksman not a liar: 0

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#112980 Mar 27, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>Creation is the better explanation because it can cover the origin of life, which by all observable science, can not occur naturalistically because of the extreme complexity involved.
That is not true. science does not support that assertion. That is a lie.


marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text> doubt ther are still humans and apes today as there were then, because as I've said over and over, fossils don't give heritage. They can't.
False. Fossils show change in populations over time. That is evolution (heritage).


marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text> All you can do is interpret something, and due to your preconceived biases
That is all you do. Science is based on the weight of evidence, not preconceptions.

marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text> That is obvious with the Cambrian Explosion and the fantasy of punctuated equalibria as the unscientific explanation, even though it too has never been observed.
This is another lie (2+ so far). The Cambrian era is observable in the fossil record. The precambrian periods are also observable.

PE is a product of observation.


marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text> So all you've done is take an unobserved fantasy and attempted to explain it with another unobserved fantasy, and there isn't a pinch of science in any of it!!!
Lie #3. Your out.


Scorecard:
Marksman is a liar: 2
Marksmans not a liar: 0

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#112981 Mar 27, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, here comes markies occult leanings again.
Enoch wasn't it?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#112982 Mar 27, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
This is a lie. No one ever said we evolved from a tobacco stalk. You are deliberately misrepresenting what has been said. You lie in EVERY post.
<quoted text>
You just stated that we claimed people evolved from tobacco stalks. That has never been claimed. That makes you a liar
CRACK! IT'S OUTTA HERE!

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