It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ... Full Story
KAB

Oxford, NC

#112172 Mar 15, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean your little fairy tale? You know you can rationalize ANYTHING with that sort of "logic".
But you real problems with Gen 1 is:
1. It conflicts with Gen 2
2. It defines day.
3. It is incorrect vs. scientific facts. Oh yea, that is what this is about.
I notice you didn't provide data for any one of your assertions. Why is that do you think?
KAB

Oxford, NC

#112173 Mar 15, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
But heavier than air flight has occurred.
Evidence:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =yrI9ylHJN0YXX
And abiogenesis has occurred.
Evidence:
Look in your mirror
If abiogenesis has not occurred then how do you explain yourself in the mirror?
You get lost so easily. Have you been taking lessons from Kitten? The question under consideration is how abiogenesis occurred.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#112174 Mar 15, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
As for the lack of confirmation, I can't show you what I don't have, can I? As to the demonstrated reliable source, I don't have any data convicting it of error. That's all I have to show.
Failure to disprove is not adequate. Confirmation is what is needed. You have not confirmed its reliability. Your repeated claims that every failure to disprove it actually proves it is horseshit. That's not how logic works. You don't get to make up your own version of reality where delusions and logical fallacies win out over empirical evidence and reason.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#112175 Mar 15, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
You are really starting to master the non-sequitur fallacy.
I'm not purporting to prove anything. I'm just trying to stimulate powers of observation and attentiveness to the realities of the physical world around us.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Iquique

#112176 Mar 15, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes I am, and a 6,000 year old creation is apparently the way you choose to understand it. The original language does not require that understanding.
You write:
"and a 6,000 year old creation is apparently the way you choose to understand it."

How do YOU understand it??

Does 200,000 years ago fit into your book and your understanding??
KAB

Oxford, NC

#112177 Mar 15, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
So why are you agreeing? The original language is something you would know little about. But that little is still more than most of the NWT "translators" (falsely so called) knew.
Since they were frauds, does that not make their "translation" (actually stolen and altered work of others) fraudulent?
Or do you have a rationalization about the NWT translators as well.
A modern day miracle, perhaps?
Thanks for the non-sequitur example.
Preferring the objective scientific approach, I evaluate the results on their own merits.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#112178 Mar 15, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
The only problem is that us having never observed something that didn't require us to occur (as man creating a flying machine that was heavier than air would have) is in no way evidence that it never occurred. We never observed an asteroid as big as the KT asteroid hitting the Earth. We don't assume, because of that, that it never happened. But, beyond that, we know that life exists on Earth. We know that at some point in the past life did not exist on Earth. Life began at some point on Earth. There is no evidence of anything "supernatural," which is why it is not used as an explanation. Therefore, life is presumed to have begun via naturalistic means. As life is nothing more than a particular series of chemical reactions, naturalistic abiogenesis is necessarily understood to have been a chemical process. That chemicals combine is understood to be true. All of the components of self-replicating RNA can occur naturally without a cell to produce them. If self-replicating RNA can occur naturally outside a cell, and that RNA becomes enveloped in a phospholipid layer (phospholipids are known to envelope things), we have the precursor to cellular life. Which of these things is impossible? Which of these things, given the chemical resources on Earth 3 billion years ago, could not occur? If it's statistically improbable for life to occur, with how many possible attempts does the statistically improbable become statistically inevitable? What would prevent Earth from having that many possible attempts?
When you answer those questions, you will begin to have a point. Or, you will begin to leave creationism behind. As both of those are against your religious beliefs (beyond the "point" being to merely jack yourself off), I expect you will not answer them.
Now factor in the overwhelming probability of natural processes to tear down.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#112179 Mar 15, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Science doesn't use hints. Science uses definitions. Either define the term "breaking down" or admit you have no idea what you're referring to and are simply using intentionally ambiguous loaded language to get other people to say things that you can try to deny.
To "break down" is to render into a lower state of complexity, decompose. Like what naturally happens to your car's dash.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#112180 Mar 15, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
And what is the statistical likelihood of God being the cause of, or explanation for, anything? Round to the nearest thousand, if necessary.
Certainty is 100%(i.e., doesn't go into the thousands). However, as a technicality it would be zero if rounded to the nearest thousand.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#112181 Mar 16, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Then relate your rendering, point-by-point to all the relevant passages of what the thing actually says. Make it easy on yourself. Just do one point to get started.
WTF are you failing to say?

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#112182 Mar 16, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
As for the lack of confirmation, I can't show you what I don't have, can I? As to the demonstrated reliable source, I don't have any data convicting it of error. That's all I have to show.
Wrong.

You don't have any data demonstrating its reliability - and that's what you in fact need.

There's plenty of evidence to the contrary.

Or do you still think that sprinkling avian blood about the place will somehow cure leprosy?

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#112183 Mar 16, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
As for the lack of confirmation, I can't show you what I don't have, can I? As to the demonstrated reliable source, I don't have any data convicting it of error. That's all I have to show.
So when your deity went looking for Adam and Eve in the Garden, he was lying about not knowing where they were?

Or he really didn't know?

Come on. Your deity's an obvious fraud.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#112184 Mar 16, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
So you have no data?
You claim a supernatural origin for the Universe.

Data, please.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#112185 Mar 16, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
You get lost so easily. Have you been taking lessons from Kitten? The question under consideration is how abiogenesis occurred.
Beats the sh!t outta me.

Whadda you got?

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#112186 Mar 16, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
To "break down" is to render into a lower state of complexity, decompose. Like what naturally happens to your car's dash.
I think you misunderstand "entropy".

It's kinda on the upswing.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#112187 Mar 16, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
This is a logical reasoning test. What's wrong with the following statement from your reference?
"Research on many genes finds different coalescence points from 2 million years ago to 60,000 years ago when different genes are considered, thus disproving the existence of more recent extreme bottlenecks (i.e., a single breeding pair)."

There is nothing wrong with the quote.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#112188 Mar 16, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
You changed horses midstream. Observation and observed outcome are not the same.

You are over analyzing. Observation = observed outcome in my previous statement.
KAB wrote:
<quoted text> As you note, probability of a given outcome may be determined by observation. Once the probabilities are determined, they tell us what the relative likelihood is of each possible cause being responsible for that observed outcome.

You're catching up.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#112189 Mar 16, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Then relate your rendering, point-by-point to all the relevant passages of what the thing actually says. Make it easy on yourself. Just do one point to get started.


Going point by point vivisects the context. The context is always important.

You problem is just denialism. You don't want to admit that the passages in question are intended as poetry and metaphor.

Why didn't the editors of genesis simply combine the creation stories?

Why does god seem to practice obfuscation in these passages instead of clarity?

Why is there clarity in a "translation" by a small group of relatively uneducated people with a specific religious agenda and not in a multitude of translations by linguistic experts, professional translators, and experts on the cultures that produced the original writings?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#112190 Mar 16, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
As for the lack of confirmation, I can't show you what I don't have, can I? As to the demonstrated reliable source, I don't have any data convicting it of error. That's all I have to show.

No, have facts backwards again.

1. To demonstrate a source to be reliable you have to demonstrate that it is reliable. i.e. you cannot just claim it is reliable.

2. The bible has over 72,000 known errors in it. These errors fall into a wide variety of types. To demonstrate that you demonstrated reliable source is a demonstrated reliable source you need to have answers for all 72,000 + known errors.
That is the responsibility of the claimant, not of anyone else.

3. Different bible translations have different numbers of errors. Yours seems to have a lot more than most.

Here is a list of just a few errors specific to the NWT. NOTE: this is NOT a comprehensive list.

The Greek word “en” meaning “in” is paraphrased as “in union with” to support the Watchtower teaching that Christians support the cause of Christ, but do not have Christ dwelling within them.

Matthew 10:32 (twice)
Luke 12:8 (twice)
John 6:56; 10:38; 14:10 (three times); 14:11 (twice); 14:20 (three times); 15:4 (three times); 15:5 (twice); 15:6; 15:7; 17:21 (Three times); 17:26
Romans 8:1; 8:2; 8:10; 12:5; 16:7;
1 Corinthians 1:2; 1:30; 15:18; 16:24
2 Corinthians 5:17; 12:2; 13:5
Galatians 1:22; 2:4; 2:20; 3:28; 5:10
Ephesians 1:1; 1:3; 1:4; 1:11; 2:6; 2:7; 2:10; 2:13; 2:15; 2:21; 2:22; 3:6; 6:1
Philippians 1:1; 3:9; 4:21
Colossians 1:27; 1:28; 2:6; 3:3
2 Timothy 1:1; 2:10; 3:15
Philemon :23
1 Peter 5:10; 5:14
1 John 1:5; 2:5; 2:6; 2:24; 2:27; 2:28; 3:6; 3:24 (three times)
1 John 4:4 (twice). 4:13 (twice); 4:15 (twice); 4:16 (twice); 5:20
Revelation 14:13

The Greek word “kolasis” is translated “cutting-off” instead of “punishment” to support the Watchtower’s belief in annihilation and the rejection of an eternal place of torment called “hell.”

Matthew 25:46

The Greek words “kai theos en ho logos” are mistranslated as “the Word was a god,” instead of “the Word was God.” This is a distortion of the text as the word “a” is not in the Greek, but was added by the New World Translators to make the Word (Jesus)“a” second “god” who is separate from God the Father.

John 1:1

The Greek words “ego eimi” meaning “I am” are mistranslated as “I have been” to obscure the connection between Jesus being the "I Am" Jehovah God of Exodus 3:14.

John 8:58

The word “me” is omitted in “ask Me anything” to support the Watchtower claim that Jesus is not worthy to receive prayer.

John 14:14

The Greek word “ginoskosin” meaning “to know, intimately” is mistranslated as “taking in knowledge of” to support the Watchtower doctrine that accurate knowledge is necessary for eternal life. Changing this translation from “know You”(as all other Bible translations have it) to “taking in knowledge of You” shifts the focus from a personal relationship with God to a mere intellectual study of God to gain eternal life.

John 17:3

The English word “son” in “blood of his own [son]” is added in brackets without any support in the Greek text. This demonstrates the length that the Watchtower goes to deny that Jesus is the God who shed His own blood for us.

Acts 20:28

The Greek words “pneumaton” and “pneumas” meaning “spirits” is mistranslated as “spiritual life” and “spiritual lives” to fit with the Watchtower doctrine that denies the existence of the human “spirit” that lives on past death.

Hebrews 12:9, 23

The Watchtower even changed the Greek text of their translation into the modern Greek language to disagree with the Greek in their Kingdom Interlinear Translation!

http://4jehovah.org/jehovahs-witness-nwt-erro...

Again this is ONLY a SAMPLE of the errors specific to the NWT and all are from the NT and all changed due to theological consideration.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#112191 Mar 16, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
So you have no data?

Data previously provided.

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