It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the ...

It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

There are 165408 comments on the Asheville Citizen-Times story from Mar 15, 2009, titled It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate. In it, Asheville Citizen-Times reports that:

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Asheville Citizen-Times.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#111996 Mar 11, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand I'm trying to help someone reason properly who thinks there's still a chance Earth is cubic in shape. Not surprisingly, it doesn't look like I'm going to succeed.
You still don't understand "always tentative."

You still don't understand "not guilty" vs "innocent."

Until you have those basic concepts mastered, you are too stupid to participate.
KAB

United States

#111997 Mar 11, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
So if there is no evidence confirming it, and lots of evidence that makes it exceedingly unlikely (continuity of cultures, no population bottlenecks in human or animal genomes, a continual ice core record going back far longer, etc)- who but a hopelessly biased person would give it any credibility?
We have compelling evidence for other big events far further back in time. Asteroid hits, massive vulcanism, ice ages, continental drift, even localised floods such as the Badlands in the US and the Black Sea...many of these reckoned at millions of years ago...
...so if there was a world wide total inundation within the last 10,000 years, anyone reasonable would expect some pretty strong evidence for it, or dismiss it for what it is, a cultural creation myth claim no more credible than any other.
Let's take it one of your points at a time.

So if there is no evidence confirming it (It is recorded in a demonstrated reliable history source), and lots of evidence that makes it exceedingly unlikely (continuity of cultures [Confirming data not yet provided], no population bottlenecks in human or animal genomes [Confirming data not yet provided], a continual ice core record going back far longer [It has not been asserted that time began with the flood], etc)- who but a hopelessly biased person would give it any credibility [Someone carefully considering ALL the available data]?

We have compelling evidence for other big events far further back in time. Asteroid hits, massive vulcanism, ice ages, continental drift, even localised floods such as the Badlands in the US and the Black Sea...many of these reckoned at millions of years ago...(All have recognized unique markers. None have been confirmed for the global flood)

...so if there was a world wide total inundation within the last 10,000 years, anyone reasonable would expect some pretty strong evidence for it (No unique markers have been identified to observe), or dismiss it for what it is, a cultural creation myth claim no more credible than any other (except that it's documented in a demonstrated reliable history source).
KAB

United States

#111998 Mar 11, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
The current crater resides at an elevation of 1790 feet, but because of crustal rebound this was lower 4200 BP. Even so, the crater was far higher than sea level. Sea level at the Hudson Straight lies 50 miles to the ENE. According to the Noahic myth, the mountains (and presumably the peninsula) were covered by a minimum of 22.5 feet of water that lasted for 5 months. Such conditions would certainly have introduced marine minerals and materials into the crater, but according to sediment analysis, there is none. The analysis of the sedimentary deposition from 4200 BP indicates that the material is simply from a crater wall collapse.
What's the time resolution of the sediment analysis, and the cross-sectional area of the sample? There is only one sample isn't there?

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#111999 Mar 11, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
I wouldn't say way too recent, a couple hundred out of over 4,000, but Bible time references do place the flood closer to 4400 years ago.
The flood is debunked.
Can we move on to what kind of hatchet George Washington used to chop down the cherry tree in 1738, whether he threw a Spanish or American dollar across the Potomac and what method St. Patrick employed to drive the snakes from Ireland?
KAB

United States

#112000 Mar 11, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
But, if you think we should believe the Bible's timeline, then 4200 years ago is completely irrelevant. Why bring it up at all if it directly contradicts the Bible?
It's an estimate, so depending on the resolution of the technology/methodology used the reality could be 4400. Don't you claim to know/understand science? In fact, it's you who insists that nothing in science is ever certain. Resolve that!
KAB

United States

#112001 Mar 11, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
You still don't understand "always tentative."
You still don't understand "not guilty" vs "innocent."
Until you have those basic concepts mastered, you are too stupid to participate.
That works for me. I'll just sit on the sidelines and provide data as I see the need unless someone requests my fuller participation.

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#112002 Mar 11, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
I wouldn't say way too recent, a couple hundred out of over 4,000, but Bible time references do place the flood closer to 4400 years ago.

That was a measured and rational statement.......

Okay, who are you and what have you done with KAB?!

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#112003 Mar 11, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand I'm trying to help someone reason properly who thinks there's still a chance Earth is cubic in shape. Not surprisingly, it doesn't look like I'm going to succeed.

Cubic in shape.[HA!].... that is nearly as silly as a global flood.

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#112004 Mar 11, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's take it one of your points at a time.
So if there is no evidence confirming it (It is recorded in a demonstrated reliable history source), and lots of evidence that makes it exceedingly unlikely (continuity of cultures [Confirming data not yet provided], no population bottlenecks in human or animal genomes [Confirming data not yet provided], a continual ice core record going back far longer [It has not been asserted that time began with the flood], etc)- who but a hopelessly biased person would give it any credibility [Someone carefully considering ALL the available data]?
We have compelling evidence for other big events far further back in time. Asteroid hits, massive vulcanism, ice ages, continental drift, even localised floods such as the Badlands in the US and the Black Sea...many of these reckoned at millions of years ago...(All have recognized unique markers. None have been confirmed for the global flood)
...so if there was a world wide total inundation within the last 10,000 years, anyone reasonable would expect some pretty strong evidence for it (No unique markers have been identified to observe), or dismiss it for what it is, a cultural creation myth claim no more credible than any other (except that it's documented in a demonstrated reliable history source).

I am with you up to "it's documented in a demonstrated reliable history source". I know of no such source and the ones we have examined have all failed (Britannica, Bible, Koran)

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#112005 Mar 11, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
What's the time resolution of the sediment analysis, and the cross-sectional area of the sample? There is only one sample isn't there?

Depends on the sediment. Nile flooding cross-sections correspond to the length of the flooding season (about 2 weeks). Of course Nile floods are minor compared to a global flood.

Science can date Nile flood sediment back about 7,000 years.

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#112006 Mar 11, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
The flood is debunked.
Can we move on to what kind of hatchet George Washington used to chop down the cherry tree in 1738, whether he threw a Spanish or American dollar across the Potomac and what method St. Patrick employed to drive the snakes from Ireland?

Since only the last is true (if metaphorical and highly biased) it is the only one that makes sense to discuss.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#112007 Mar 11, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
What's the time resolution of the sediment analysis, and the cross-sectional area of the sample? There is only one sample isn't there?
You are squinting through a dry sunny day hoping I'll find some fog in the moonlight for you.
Drop the bone and walk away, KAB. It doesn't matter if there is one core sample from the crater or a barge full of them - there is no indicator of a global flood, just a mundane slough of material from the crater wall itself.
Planet-wide there are incalculable hundreds of thousands of core samples - none indicating that the Noahic Flood is more than imaginary event or at "best" a gross exaggeration of a regional one. Even the Bible ITSELF provides logical contradictions that it occurred as recounted - as has been exhaustively pointed out to you.

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#112008 Mar 11, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
It's an estimate, so depending on the resolution of the technology/methodology used the reality could be 4400. Don't you claim to know/understand science? In fact, it's you who insists that nothing in science is ever certain. Resolve that!

It is certain that certain things in science are certainly certain, but certain things are certainly not certainly certain.

Capice?

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#112009 Mar 11, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
That works for me. I'll just sit on the sidelines and provide data as I see the need unless someone requests my fuller participation.

R I G H T .

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#112010 Mar 11, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>

We have compelling evidence for other big events far further back in time. Asteroid hits, massive vulcanism, ice ages, continental drift, even localised floods such as the Badlands in the US and the Black Sea...many of these reckoned at millions of years ago...(All have recognized unique markers. None have been confirmed for the global flood)
...so if there was a world wide total inundation within the last 10,000 years, anyone reasonable would expect some pretty strong evidence for it (No unique markers have been identified to observe), or dismiss it for what it is, a cultural creation myth claim no more credible than any other (except that it's documented in a demonstrated reliable history source).
So the Noahic Flood is established as "a cultural creation myth claim no more credible than any other...."
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>That works for me. I'll just sit on the sidelines and provide data as I see the need unless someone requests my fuller participation.
That works for me, as well.
I request that you provide your data that the Bible is a demonstrated reliable history source.
KAB

United States

#112011 Mar 11, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
I am with you up to "it's documented in a demonstrated reliable history source". I know of no such source and the ones we have examined have all failed (Britannica, Bible, Koran)
You have only asserted that the Bible has failed. Confirming that continues to prove elusive.
KAB

United States

#112012 Mar 11, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Depends on the sediment. Nile flooding cross-sections correspond to the length of the flooding season (about 2 weeks). Of course Nile floods are minor compared to a global flood.
Science can date Nile flood sediment back about 7,000 years.
Sorry for the lack of specificity. The cross-section of interest is that related to the diameter of the core (i.e., horizontal cross-section).

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#112013 Mar 11, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Since only the last is true (if metaphorical and highly biased) it is the only one that makes sense to discuss.
Naw, you get a buzzer for that. There were no snakes in Ireland to drive out. Even metaphorically. One can easily defend a claim that the pagans were no better or worse than their 5th century/migration period/middle ages Catholic successors.(But it would be far off-topic and let's not launch into it.)

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#112014 Mar 11, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
You have only asserted that the Bible has failed. Confirming that continues to prove elusive.
I request that you provide your data that the Bible is a demonstrated reliable history source.
KAB

United States

#112015 Mar 11, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
You are squinting through a dry sunny day hoping I'll find some fog in the moonlight for you.
Drop the bone and walk away, KAB. It doesn't matter if there is one core sample from the crater or a barge full of them - there is no indicator of a global flood, just a mundane slough of material from the crater wall itself.
Planet-wide there are incalculable hundreds of thousands of core samples - none indicating that the Noahic Flood is more than imaginary event or at "best" a gross exaggeration of a regional one. Even the Bible ITSELF provides logical contradictions that it occurred as recounted - as has been exhaustively pointed out to you.
Nothing provided has withstood scrutiny, including your marine contamination hypothesis.

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